kloMcKinsey schrieb:
> "A.Wosni" wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > Milan says that proletarian democracy is the same as the dictatorship of the
> > proletariat.
>
> I said that, not Milan.
>
> On the level of the meaning of the words in a general sense this is
> > true.However the rule of the proletariat (dictatorship of the proletariat)
> can
> > have pretty different forms depending on the circumstances. Of course in
> order
> > to defend that rule against the internal and external bourgeoisie the
> > proletariat has to use all means available to defend its rule and can for a
> > certain time use outright repression and takiung away of many of the
> liberties a
> > bourgeois democracy gives.
>
> Gives to who?
[you know very well that a bourgeois democracy gives those formal liberties -
the right to form associations, freedom of press etc. - to all citizens, the
working class included. Of course a right like that of a free press in practivce
means different things to a those who have the money to establish their own
papers than to those who don't. Still you can't deny that e.g. in a country like
FRGermany there are more individual liberties than there have been in GDR. That
these liberties stop short before the freedom from exploitation and political
oppression used to defend that system is beyond any doubt.]
>
> But this is not the ordinary way the proletariat
> > rules since it is dangerous not only for the class enemy (which is okay)
> but it
> > will stiffle proletarian rule as well.
>
>
> How so?
[since socialism contrary to capitalism does not develop within the old society
it has to be the resukt of the conscious doings of the working ckass.In order to
liberate itself and to become able to be a ruling class the working class need
maximum freedom of thought and organization. Stiffling those rights as was the
case in Russia during the civil war with much of the working class having been
literally exterminated and organizationally dispersed canbe a necessity. But
this is a sorry situation which must be come over as soon as possible.If it is
not itÄs gonna destroy the very basis of the proletarian state (which is the
political power of the workingclass and not just state ownership of the means of
production). The SU is the best example of the negative outcome of this process
]
> In short the 'dictatorship of the
> > proletariat' can give more or less freedom.
>
> To whom?
[answered above. But once again:the proletariat and the allied classes and
strata of the toiling masses. These rights could even be given to the former
bourgeoisue since it is such a minority in society]
>
> The goal is to give all the
> > bourgeois freedoms and turn them from merely formal ones to real ones by
> adding
> > freedom on the economic level (i.e. the end of exploitation of man by man).
>
> What? What are bourgeois freedoms and who has them according to you?
[s. above]
>
> > Anyway in the case of Belarus we are not at all talking about a more or less
> > perfect proletarian dictatorship
>
> Belarus is not a proletarian dictatorship, either more or less.
>
>
> but about a bourgeois one (irrespective of the
> > amount of state property -Chiang Kai Chek's China had an higher percentage
> of
> > state property in the first years than the PR of China. Did this make it a
> > proletarian dictatorship?).
>
> Where did you get that last piece of information?
>
[ this is from Walter Daum's book 'The Life and Death of Stalinism',New York
1990. A.Holberg]
For the cause,
>
> Klo
>
> PS. I suggest you read my book entitled THE RELEVANCE OF MARXISM on my
> website which covers the proletarian dictatorship in detail and with
> strong support from classics' quotes.
> The address is: http:my.ohio.voyager.net/~klomckin
>
>
>
> > Best, A.Holberg
> >
>
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