Jared; ><< That is not true. Even the Israeli government doesn't claim that all > targets of suicide bombings by Palestinians are civilians. -- >> > >That's not much of a counter-argument,
It's not insignificant that you are taking a position _to the right_ of the Israeli government, in claiming that _all_ targets of suicide bombings by Palestinians are civilians. Further, discussion of suicide bombings, as with discussion of all military tactics, should make a proper distinction between civilians and soldiers. >but OK, granting that there have been >exceptions (of which I am unaware, and which I note that you have not >bothered to name) See, for instance, the following websites: B'Tselem, <http://www.btselem.org/>; and <http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0i5d0>, a page maintained by the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs. >- regarding the obviously overwhelming number of terrorist >attacks that have murdered civilians - am I to understand that you approve of >these? The following is from B'Tselem's statistics (I only copy the totals here -- to see the trends, go to <http://www.btselem.org/>): ***** Palestinians Killed in the Occupied Territories (including East Jerusalem), since the Beginning of the Intifada (Dec. 9, 1987) until the end of January 2002 Year Palestinian Palestinians Palestinian civilians security civilians killed by forces killed by Israeli personnel Israeli security killed by civilians forces Israeli security forces Total- 1,965 163 126 Israelis Killed in the Occupied Territories (including East Jerusalem), since the Beginning of the Intifada (Dec. 9, 1987) until the end of January 2002 Year Israeli Israeli Israeli civilians security security killed by forces forces Palestinians personnel personnel killed by killed by Palestinian Palestinian civilians security forces Total 179 109 24 In addition to the data above: Six foreign citizens were killed by Palestinians; Nine foreign citizens were killed by Israeli security forces. Total Casualties in Israel from the Beginning of the Intifada (Dec. 9, 1987) untill the end of January 2002 Year Palestinian Palestinian Israeli Israeli civilians civilians civilians security killed by killed by killed by forces Israeli Israeli Palestinian personnel security civilians civilians killed by forces Palestinian civilians Total 48 27 275 79 In addition to the data above: Two foreign citizens were killed by Israeli security force personnel; 23 foreign citizens were killed by Palestinians. ****** As you can see above, both Israelis and Palestinians have killed civilians _and_ more civilians than security forces personnel, but, proportionally speaking, 57% of the Israelis killed by Palestinians in the occupied territories are civilians, whereas *92%* of the Palestinians killed by Israelis in the occupied territories are civilians. Counting the deaths in both the occupied territories and Israel proper, 68% of the Israelis killed by Palestinians are civilians, whereas *93%* of the Palestinians killed by Israelis are civilians. Looking at the trend, the murders of Israeli civilians by Palestinians in the occupied territories reached two digits only in the years 1992 (11), 1993-4 (38), and 2000-2002 (87); the murders of Israeli civilians by Palestinians in Israel proper did the same in the years 1989 (17), 1990 (13), 1994 (47), 1996 (38), 1997 (25), and 2000-2002 (98). (The figures between parentheses are the numbers of the dead in the years mentioned.) Lastly, when the statistics mention Israeli civilians, they include settlers as well. While I do not approve of Palestinian bombings of Israeli civilians, I also think it important to remember that the Palestinian record in observance of laws of war looks much better than the Israeli record (not to mention the US record) in the proportions of civilian and military casualties. Further, the Palestinian suicide bombings of Israeli civilians came to outnumber only in very recent years, i.e., since the beginning of the 2nd Intifada. -- Yoshie * Calendar of Events in Columbus: <http://www.osu.edu/students/sif/calendar.html> * Anti-War Activist Resources: <http://www.osu.edu/students/sif/activist.html> * Student International Forum: <http://www.osu.edu/students/sif/> * Committee for Justice in Palestine: <http://www.osu.edu/students/CJP/> _______________________________________________ Leninist-International mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/leninist-international
