On Dec 3, 11:27 am, "Edward K. Ream" wrote: > So this is the Aha: I can continue to do what I've always done, > but > expand its application to something much more exciting than > editors. [...] > So lib2to3 is just the first baby step towards treating Python > programs as data in interesting ways. We won't run out of ideas in > this area in my lifetime.
a few rambling thoughts. it is always about the editor! sounds to me like a deeper study of AWK is in order. I have not needed pythoscope or lib2to3. is it for python3k? your words evoke more of a data translation construct than one of a program generator to me. there is a huge need for easier data visualization to enable more flexible translation tasks. to broaden the available user base to enable one with less of a programming skill set to create the tools needed to accomplish their unique tasks. by no means new idea but always ripe for picking. maybe data translation is program generation afterall. more scriptability, easier to grasp API's, self healing, are they enabled with better completion and help lookup? some new combination of libs? we seem to love to invalidate most of the work already accomplished every few (months,) years in order to arrive at the need for ever more tricky translation tasks just to break even. prodigious amounts of hardware and software upgrades littering the path to there as well as lost efficiencies of scale when the installed base shrinks. more concretely, how great would it be to further enhanced the ability of plugins to troubleshoot themselves instead of the current situation of waiting for new or renewed users to provide traceback after a failure. one of the more common frustrations with python. this is the same old paradigm of try cut paste debug repeat. we all try, some cut & paste and the debugging separates us. even if we can make the thing compile and sign-on, does it work? all test pass as they say, except for the one that counts, real usage. has anyone succeeded in teaching a computer the intent of a plugin? so we make better debuggers for more trials and little progress. can I suggest a first order of business is to divorce Leo from python? as good as it has been for Leo it is now a drag. only half jokingly: translate pyqt code into c++ and be done with the piecemeal optimizations. hooking up executescript via QtScript. or not. as comfortable as python may well be. several orders of newer versions will still leave us basically where we are. there I've said it. now all that remains is to wait for the necessary passage of time and for technology to catch up till it can reasonably happen. we haven't begun to mine the archives for data visualization and translation technologies that have at various times been brought up in connection with Leo as the bridge if only we could see all the pieces at once and be there with a grasp of how to get from here to there. it often takes someone on both sides to meet in the middle. with suitable wrenches to handle the nitty gritty details. the fog in this early morning hasn't begun to lift. back when I could tolerate more python than I now can, I recall similar "the sky is the limit" feeling. playing with an early version of Logix. Unfortunately, as you well know, you inevitably get back to the editor, the visualization, the nuts & bolts, the manufacturing, the case hardening the testing, the procurement, the forest the trees the limits the prospective audience and finally the cost benefit ratios that rarely pan out except in pure research and experience. you are left with an ever escalating download upgrade death spiral that thins your target machines and environments until only you can use the possibly amazing but fragile thing that barely survives description let alone widespread use. if we are lucky, we get a plugin and a few demos. and a whatever.leo, so what can pythoscope do that AWK hasn't already mapped out as possible 40 years ago? albeit probably only in bell technical journals gathering dust in some university library basement closet and sadly landfill or other disaster. although I assume you could pay for the privilege to search & read too. awaiting @tab pythoscope and it's @popup API. the devil is in the details. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
