On Mon, 2022-05-30 at 23:57 +0000, Michael Weghorn wrote: > On 30/05/2022 11.08, Caolán McNamara wrote: > > For a11y I don't know what is seen as the major problems, is there > > some fundamentally missing pieces (like in the past not having > > direct windows IAccessible2 support and needing a java access > > bridge). Or are the fundamentals ok and its a matter of a general > > malaise. Is the general widgetry ok, but particular components have > > poor document level a11y. Or is there an endless amount of fairly > > easy entry level problems that there isn't enough people to take > > care of. > > I don't have a comprehensive overview at this point. > At least from the little experience I have by now, I *tend to think* > it's mostly the latter, at least as far as root causes for the major > problems are concerned.
If the overview is there are a thousand little things and not a small set of large scale specific projects then that's still a useful overview. We could still sweep them into some general themes. > (I have also *heard* that Base seems to be most problematic in > general, but haven't had much to do with it myself yet.) I wonder if it's the initial base screen (I think I might have replaced some custom widgets there with more standard ones which might have improved matters) or the "design view" rows/columns screen which is a custom widget, but one I think that does at least have an a11y implementation. In general custom widgets lead to forgotten a11y, like the extensions dialog. How about math? I see a bug 140659 for math still open linked to the meta bug, which says "formula editor not operable with screenreaders", but then the commentary seems maybe less bleak > From what I have seen so far while looking at some a11y issues > affecting Windows and Linux (gtk3 and qt5/qt6 VCL plugins), the > fundamentals look fine, and it seems to be mostly that various > smaller issues in LO a11y code of the single components and the > platform integrations (and sometimes in other projects, like the NVDA > screen reader or the Qt library) cause a lack of a11y in the UI (lack > of usability with accessibility technology, like screen readers, e.g. > because not everything is announced) Depends of what is being read out of course, missing labels for .ui widgetry are super trivial to fix[1]. Something not read out from a document can range from some small missing piece to some difficult total lack of a11y. > documents (like a11y-related attributes not being properly set in > docs, in particular when exported to other formats like OOXML, PDF, > (X)HTML). My feeling is that category of problem is presumably relatively easy to implement, there's a reasonable amount of general file format knowledge around. > The a11y meta bug tdf#101912 [1] currently lists ~200 specific > issues. (I also have a ranked list from Richard, CCed, a blind user > who uses the NVDA screen reader on Windows.) If Richard is ok with sharing that here it could help get a general feel on what's lacking. > IIUC, the gtk4 VCL plugin currently doesn't have an a11y > implementation yet... Yeah, right now I don't think there is a way to do it in gtk4. Basic widgetry works fine and the internal gtk4 a11y looks good, but I don't see what is possible to supplement it for document a11y. Its the kind of thing I would probably be able to take care of when it becomes possible. [1] https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=119931 is the easy hack for those. Genuinely easy with valuable results. Not sure if its completed by now.