> > Let me clarify, I don't determine that [ my company was ethical enough > or pledged enough support for us to continue to use your code], you do > :-) > You use the code, you "Make sure your use of the software complies with > your own ethical standards", and you decide on the support $ amount. >
In that case, don't make my use of your code conditioned on this by putting your additional clauses in a license file as a term of use. You can put the phrase "You have to answer yes to: Are you proud of what you're doing?" on every file of your software in a comment block and on every footer of your web page. You can adopt a company moto: "Don't be evil" (it's been done before). Every time I visit your website or read your code I'll think of my late father. He was a rabbi. He also told me that I should only do things I'm proud of. But he didn't put it in a legal text. I agree with your sentiment. I caution your implementation. Gil Yehuda: I help with external technology engagement >From the Open Source Program Office <https://developer.yahoo.com/opensource/docs/> at Yahoo --> Oath - -> Verizon Media On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 10:46 AM Ofer <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Thu, 8 Aug 2019 at 17:36, Gil Yehuda via License-discuss < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> >I'd love to know what you think of the whole thing. >> >> tl;dr: It's difficult to control other people's actions. Instead, seek >> acceptable outcome for yourself, and inspire goodness in others. >> >> You explain "I'd like to open source my company's code, but, I'm worried >> my code will be misused." which is a consideration we all have. But it's >> difficult to say what "misuse" means. Your example of misuse is competition >> and someone upset about progression from product to commodity. Is enabling >> these _misuse_? It might have a negative consequence to the code publisher, >> but it also has a positive outcome to everyone else. Misuse or market >> forces? >> >> That said, your proposed terms don't address outcomes that limit >> competition, but suggest people follow a set of ethical practices. Lofty >> aspiration, but why put it in a legal document? Write a blog post, give a >> sermon, inspire people to be good and charitable. Some people will listen, >> and the world (and the recipients of the charity) will thank you. But if >> you put it in a license, (like the JSON license did) it will not accomplish >> much. Since the release of the JSON license the world has yet to been >> inspired to avoid using software for evil. >> >> Practically: if anyone at my company wishes to use the Wakkaworks code >> under the modified license you pointed to, I will block them from doing so. >> It's not that I don't agree to be Ethical (#10) or to pledge Support (#11) >> to open source projects. Rather, I don't agree to have you determine if my >> company was ethical enough or pledged enough support for us to continue to >> use your code. >> > Let me clarify, I don't determine that, you do :-) > You use the code, you "Make sure your use of the software complies with > your own ethical standards", and you decide on the support $ amount. > > > >> I suggest that if you find a company behaving unethically, that you don't >> do business with them. But withholding their access to your source code is >> not going to scale well or be effective. Are you really going to spend time >> tracking all the people who use your code and determining if they paid >> their pledges? >> >> I'd inspire charity and ethics by example, not by legal terms. Take the >> text from your license file and put it in your readme file. Say "We do the >> right thing. We are proud of what we do. We give at least $12 a year to >> charity as our way to perform Da'ana... We encourage users of our source >> code to do the same and make the world a better place." That can't hurt, >> it's a declaration, not a condition of use. Licenses are not inspirational >> texts. >> >> Gil Yehuda: I help with external technology engagement >> >> From the Open Source Program Office >> <https://developer.yahoo.com/opensource/docs/> at Yahoo --> Oath - -> >> Verizon Media >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 9:31 AM Ofer <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi everyone, >>> I'm a developer, now turned startup founder, so not much legal >>> background except my own curiosity. >>> >>> I'd like to open source my company's code, but, I'm worried my code will >>> be misused. >>> >>> The way I see it, code can bring value to a company. >>> By open sourcing the code, I can help share this value with other >>> companies, which is great. >>> BUT - >>> If my company open sources code, and then another company uses it to >>> decrease my company's value (e.g by direct competition), that's a bad >>> outcome. Recent example >>> <https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/09/aws-gives-open-source-the-middle-finger/>. >>> The other company could balance the fact that they're using my code and >>> decreasing my company's value, by paying my company. So it could still be >>> an overall win-win. >>> >>> The value my code brings to other companies also really varies on their >>> use, so it's hard for me to even determine it. >>> >>> So, I thought of adding these 2 clauses to Apache: >>> 1. Self-ethics: Make sure your use of the software complies with your >>> own ethical standards. [I think this clause is just a good thing to have >>> anyway, but also helps with the second, which is based on good-faith]. >>> 2. Support: Give back a proportion of the value this software adds to >>> your business. For example, consider supporting with 10% of the added value >>> you get from this software vs an alternative option. Open source is a form >>> of public project, so this support is a form of daana (For more on daana, >>> see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C4%81na). I thought about >>> requiring a symbolic support of 1$ per company per month (or year?) as a >>> minimum and also requiring them to list themselves as users of the code >>> with a description of their usage and support amount. >>> >>> You can see a sort of a draft I wrote for the above 2 sections in the >>> Apache license: >>> https://github.com/wakkaworks/wakka/blob/master/LICENSE#L180-L191 >>> >>> I'd love to know what you think of the whole thing. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Ofer Bartal >>> CEO@WakkaWorks >>> _______________________________________________ >>> License-discuss mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> >>> http://lists.opensource.org/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss_lists.opensource.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> License-discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.opensource.org/mailman/listinfo/license-discuss_lists.opensource.org >> >
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