On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Meredith Gregory <[email protected] > wrote:
> David, > > Can one leave proxies in place for things that are not actually > serializable? Anything that's marked serializable should be... and it's up to the thing that marks itself as serialiable to create a proxy. Things that are not marked as serializable may or may not be... the issue is what kind of instance variables they have to determine if they could be serialized. > > > Best wishes, > > --greg > > On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 12:55 PM, David Pollak < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 12:36 PM, marius d. <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> >>> Just a FYI. I briefly talked with Martin and he said this idea is >>> possible but quite tricky. Stephane Micheloud did something similar >>> and he may share some of his work. I'm waiting some feedback from him. >> >> >> I think we can do it at runtime in development mode. This is just for >> data gathering, not for actual implementation. We just need to calculate >> whether a given class is serializable once... so we don't have to worry >> about cyclic graphs or anything else... just... are the "slots" (instance >> variables) for each class serializable. >> >> >>> >>> >>> Br's, >>> Marius >>> >>> On Aug 24, 10:46 am, "marius d." <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > On Aug 24, 10:39 am, Viktor Klang <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 8:13 AM, marius d. <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > > > On Aug 24, 12:06 am, David Pollak <[email protected]> >>> > > > wrote: >>> > > > > On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 10:45 AM, marius d. < >>> [email protected]> >>> > > > wrote: >>> > >>> > > > > > Hmmm .. I'm wondering if we can write aScalacompilerpluginthat >>> > > > > > transform functions provided to Lift's S/SHtml function etc. >>> into a >>> > > > > > richer FunctionX implementation that knows how to "serialize" >>> it's >>> > > > > > members. We could restrict the types that as LiftSerializable >>> on top >>> > > > > > of primitives, Calenars, SessionVar/RequestVar etc. If users >>> need >>> > > > > > their own classes to be LiftSerilizable they would have to >>> implement >>> > > > > > LiftSerializable trait. >>> > >>> > > > > I think we can do it without explicit traits. I think we just >>> need to >>> > > > walk >>> > > > > the graph for everything that's added to the LiftSession and see >>> where it >>> > > > > leads. Any graph we can walk is something that we can >>> serialize... even >>> > > > > without Java serialization. Any graph that ends in globals or >>> some class >>> > > > > that refers to native stuff (e.g., IO), then we're toast. >>> > >>> > > > Totally agree. The rationale for explicit LiftSerializable would be >>> > > > just for user defined types. Otherwise user's won't have to use it. >>> > > > Graphs may also have be cyclic paths ... it shouldn't be too big of >>> a >>> > > > pain though. Furthermore if a dependency graph path leads say to an >>> IO >>> > > > reference maybe that's unintentional user code doesn't really use >>> that >>> > > > but compiler put it for whatever reason. If such cases are possible >>> > > > and could be determined maybe we could exclude that silently from >>> the >>> > > > serialization operation and add a compile time warning. >>> > >>> > > > I guess we need to dig more intoscalacompilerpluginsystem. >>> > >>> > > 1. Isn't there a problem with references _inside_ methods that are >>> > > impure/sideeffecting? >>> > >>> > > s => { Db.myCachedInfoNotInSession foo s } >>> > >>> > > Regarding member references, a simple check for "transient" >>> > > (sca...@transient == java *transient*) to forcve people to use >>> transient >>> > > members for non-serializable state. >>> > >>> > > But IMHO the serialization problem is a (negative?) sideeffect of >>> Lifts rich >>> > > model GUID=>Func approach. >>> > > Perhpas there is a middle way, a way where we can replicate just >>> enough to >>> > > survive a node crash? >>> > >>> > That's exactly it. We probably don't need everything that Java >>> > Serialization does. Just enough to make it consistent ... the >>> > dependency graphs that is actually used by the user's function. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > Thoughts? >>> > >>> > > > > > Br's, >>> > > > > > Marius >>> > >>> > > > > > On Aug 23, 8:30 pm, "marius d." <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> > > > > > > At a first glace Java serialization is needed because of its >>> > > > awareness >>> > > > > > > of the reference graph. But in the same time it does not >>> perform >>> > > > well. >>> > > > > > > One way might be the byte level instrumentation that would >>> induce >>> > > > code >>> > > > > > > to figure out the reference graph and know how to stream-ify >>> it using >>> > > > > > > a given efficient protocol. But that induces risks and it >>> involves >>> > > > > > > tons of work. I think would be doable though. >>> > >>> > > > > > > The problem is not really the technology of propagating >>> session >>> > > > > > > information to other nodes. That's the easiest part, but >>> tough one is >>> > > > > > > figuring out the low level reference graph and serialization >>> > > > > > > semantics. This is why JINI, JavaSpaces, JGroups, CORBA, >>> JXTA, you >>> > > > > > > name it, are unlikely to help solving the fundamental >>> problem. >>> > >>> > > > > > > Br's, >>> > > > > > > Marius >>> > >>> > > > > > > On Aug 23, 8:16 pm, Arthur <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 7:04 PM, David >>> > >>> > > > > > > > Pollak<[email protected]> wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 4:50 AM, Kevin Wright >>> > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > > > > > > > >> I'm wondering if we can't leverage JavaSpaces to handle >>> a lot of >>> > > > > > this >>> > > > > > > > >> stuff. From my experience with the technology it seems >>> to be a >>> > > > > > pretty good >>> > > > > > > > >> fit for the problem. >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > Two reasons: >>> > > > > > > > > - JavaSpaces is as far as I know, GPL and we will not mix >>> any GPL >>> > > > > > into Lift >>> > >>> > > > > > > > JavaSpaces is just the specification. There are two >>> implementations >>> > > > I >>> > > > > > > > know of: BlitzJavaSpaces (BSD) and GigaSpaces >>> (proprietary?). I >>> > > > don't >>> > > > > > > > have hands on experience with either. >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > - It doesn't solve the issue with low-level session >>> replication >>> > > > which >>> > > > > > relies >>> > > > > > > > > on serialization of the session data for transfer to >>> another app >>> > > > > > server >>> > > > > > > > > instance. >>> > >>> > > > > > > > Arthur >>> > >>> > > > > -- >>> > > > > Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net >>> > > > > BeginningScalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890 >>> > > > > Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp >>> > > > > Git some:http://github.com/dpp >>> > >>> > > -- >>> > > Viktor Klang >>> > >>> > > Blog: klangism.blogspot.com >>> > > Twttr: viktorklang >>> > >>> > > Lift Committer - liftweb.com >>> > > AKKA Committer - akkasource.org >>> > > Cassidy - github.com/viktorklang/Cassidy.git >>> > > SoftPub founder:http://groups.google.com/group/softpub >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net >> Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890 >> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp >> Git some: http://github.com/dpp >> >> >> > > > -- > L.G. Meredith > Managing Partner > Biosimilarity LLC > 1219 NW 83rd St > Seattle, WA 98117 > > +1 206.650.3740 > > http://biosimilarity.blogspot.com > > > > -- Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890 Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp Git some: http://github.com/dpp --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lift" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
