Good Morning Cezary,
> This is quite good way to replace both-funding channels by such "superhub".
> It would be even easier if I could open more then single channel between both
> parties, but I saw this is not possible in c-lightning.
From a risk perspective, you have increased risk in general if you open
channels to few nodes, compared to the case where you open channels to more
nodes. Thus if you can afford to open many channels, you would prefer to
participate in multiple different circular superhubs, each with a different set
of participants, rather than repeatedly opening many channels to the same
participant in a single superhub.
> Could you tell me what is the reason and do you plan to add this possibility
> in the future?
The current code tends to couple "channel" to "peer" a little too much, and it
is going to take quite some work to uncouple them. I believe cdecker has plans
to add this in the future, as there are a few comments in the code from him
pointing to bits where this decoupling needs to be implemented.
> In LND opening multiple channels is possible, but is this compatible with
> c-lightning then?
No, currently the c-lightning daemon will reject the multiple channel attempt
from LND. LND can form multiple channels with peer LND.
Regards,
ZmnSCPxj
> Best Regards,
> Cezary
>
> 2018-02-04 13:36 GMT+01:00 ZmnSCPxj <[email protected]>:
>
>> Good morning Cezary,
>>
>>> I think first two options are for those, who want to earn some money for
>>> payments fee. The option that can be interesting for for some business like
>>> coffee is third option. Do you agree with me?
>>>
>>>> 3. In all likelihood, some service later will offer deals like "up to
>>>> 300mBTC receive for only 1mBTC! At least 3 months channel alive!" for new
>>>> upcoming businesses.
>>>
>>> It seams the best option for new businesses, but what if such new business
>>> would like to have channel with 300mBTC on both side. Let's say this is
>>> ATM. The owner of ATM need to be able to receive and sending funds. Without
>>> possibility of both-side funding channels this is quite hard to establish
>>> such balanced channel. ATM owner needs to send 300 mBTC as on-side
>>> transaction to hub, and then hub could open channel with 600 mBTC capacity
>>> and send back 300mBTC to ATM owner though this new channel. This requires
>>> trust to hub.
>>
>> Then do not trust a single hub. Instead, have incoming 300mBTC from one
>> hub, then make an outgoing 300mBTC to another hub. Encourages more hubs
>> also. This also makes your node a potential routing node, improving network
>> connectivity.
>>
>>> I know, LN is in early stage, but I'm very surprised that both sides cannot
>>> fund channel. Maybe this is because at the beginning LN was presented with
>>> such option. The only reason are trust issues that you described before, or
>>> maybe there are also some technical issues to implement such functionality?
>>> Do you predict this will be added to BOLT and implemented in the future?
>>
>> There is already an issue regarding this. For now, priority is actual
>> implementation of payments. Dual-funding channels can be emulated by having
>> some hubbing service make channels to you, while you make a channel to some
>> other hub (i.e. make two channels). Such an emulation is superior to
>> dual-funding as it allows you to potentially become some alternate route if
>> other routes become congested, letting you earn some small amount; compare
>> this to a single dual-funding channel that, by itself, cannot be used to for
>> routing.
>>
>> Another thing is that we can make "circular superhubs" if small groups of us
>> cooperate. The smallest 3-circle superhub has 3 members A B C. A opens
>> channel to B, B open channels t C, C open channels to A. Each channel is
>> the same capacity. If each of you has one out-channel other than on the
>> circular superhub, any of A B C can spend to any node that any of them have
>> an out-channel to. Similarly, each of you can receive via any in-channel
>> any of you happen to have. Join a few such small communities and you can be
>> well-connected enough to send and receive reasonably seamlessly to anyone on
>> the network.
>>
>> Regards,
>> ZmnSCPxj
>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Cezary
>>>
>>> 2018-02-04 10:08 GMT+01:00 ZmnSCPxj <[email protected]>:
>>>
>>>> Good morning Cezary,
>>>>> Lets say I would like to receive ln payments. How can I do this, without
>>>>> locking funds on the other side of channel?
>>>>
>>>> 1. Do the Blockstream Store route: do it early enough, and people will
>>>> make channels to you, because, they want to try out Lightning Network
>>>> quickly.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Publish the node and contact details (IP or TOR onion service) and hope
>>>> people are excited enough about your product to open a channel to you.
>>>>
>>>> 3. In all likelihood, some service later will offer deals like "up to
>>>> 300mBTC receive for only 1mBTC! At least 3 months channel alive!" for new
>>>> upcoming businesses.
>>>>
>>>> 4. Ask a friend to channel to you.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> ZmnSCPxj
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