On 2/6/20, 3:03 PM, "lilypond-devel on behalf of kieren_macmillan kieren_macmillan" <lilypond-devel-bounces+c_sorensen=byu....@gnu.org on behalf of kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
<snip> We lost at least 30 [!!] person-years of extremely high-level programming assistance because of the past tone in this community — yes, I can justify that claim with concrete data — and we’re currently in danger of losing more, indefinitely, because a few people in the community are unwilling to collaborate on a piece of prose which would offer that we try to be a welcoming community. I have expressed reservations about the proposed code of conduct. I hope that I am not perceived as being unwilling to collaborate on improving the friendliness of the LilyPond community. I am perfectly fine with a code of conduct that expresses the values of openness, friendliness, and mutual respect. I believe in those things deeply. I try to always have my participation in the LilyPond community reflect those values. If I ever fall afoul of them, I hope that somebody will let me know. I am concerned about a code of conduct that has an implied threat in it. And the present proposal has an implied threat to at least one of our members. David K. has seen the implied threat, and he believes that the ultimate outcome of accepting the proposed code of conduct would be that he would eventually be banned. That is his reality, just as much as those who have been offended on the LilyPond lists have a reality that it's not a nice place for them to be. I think that the presence (in the proposed CoC )of an enforcement committee that has the power to sanction participants in response to anonymous complaints is more than just a bit of prose. It's the creation of a new structure that governs our community. It's the structure I have concerns about, not the prose. I'm thinking through the issues, and I don't know exactly where I finally come down. But at this point, I think I would welcome a code of conduct that expressed our aspirations to be open, friendly, welcome to diversity; and opposed to harassment, bullying, belittling, and other negative forms of communication. If the code of conduct also proposed a mediation committee that would provide support to people who were having trouble with the community (either those who felt damaged by the negative communication or those who were accused of negative communication), I think I could support that. Having a committee that tries to smooth things over seems only a positive. To my mind, that’s a real wasted opportunity, and sufficient justification to at least consider a CoC — a document which, for the record, I would have fell afoul of multiple times in the 17 [!!] years I’ve been posting. I agree that it's a wasted opportunity. I think we should try to improve things. But I'm concerned that if you would have fallen afoul of the proposed CoC, the CoC is pretty restrictive. I think your posts are consistently positive. > Apple carts unfortunately get upset once in a while. That is just life. So if someone goes around regularly knocking over everyone’s cart — intentionally or otherwise — and as a result drives the sellers with the best apples to another village, there’s no benefit in trying to figure out a way to direct the person’s energies to more constructive and less disruptive purpose(s)? I’m sure glad the real world doesn’t work on that model. I think it's wonderful to try to help a person be more constructive and less disruptive. I also think I would be concerned if the only person who sells peaches in the village stopped providing peaches because she occasionally knocked over an applecart. The community would be worse of in both cases -- no peaches or no apples. A plan to provide *both* peaches and apples would be far better. The proposed CoC, in my opinion, does not have a friendly tone towards those who run afoul of the CoC. And I think we need to be friendly to all, including those who run afoul of the CoC. Rather than seeking to ostracize them, we should seek to help them. The proposed CoC doesn’t feel that way to me. But I'd be very happy to try to help make it feel friendly. Thanks, Carl