> On 3 Nov 2016, at 03:04, David Wright <lily...@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote: > > On Wed 02 Nov 2016 at 22:13:54 (+0100), Hans Åberg wrote: >> >>> On 2 Nov 2016, at 21:08, David Wright <lily...@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>> On Wed 02 Nov 2016 at 20:10:39 (+0100), Hans Åberg wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 28 Oct 2016, at 21:48, David Wright <lily...@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Fri 28 Oct 2016 at 11:22:00 (-0700), Tobin Chodos wrote: >>>>>> Forgive me if this is a too-easy issue for the list, but: is there a way >>>>>> to >>>>>> define a time compound time signature such as 4/4 + 1/3? That is, the >>>>>> measure is four quarter notes long plus one triplet eighth note. >>>>> >>>>> Isn't this just 13/8? Three triplet eighth notes make a quarter note. >>>>> So it's 3+3+3+3+1 all over 8, and the notes will be written out as >>>>> four dotted quarter notes and an eighth note per measure. >>>> >>>> Indeed, 12/8 may be complicated notationally if the beats of length 3/8 >>>> are divided into twos and fours, so 4/4 might be preferred. >>> >>> Now that would be interesting. Are the last three notes of the first >>> bar realistically performable? OTOH splitting the long notes into >>> threes would be straightforward to perform (and to write in 13/8). >> >> It is, if the tempo is not too high, and one devices a method for counting. >> >>> The only 13/8 I can recall off-hand is an uncomplicated 6/4+1/8. >> >> At moderato, 1/4 = 120, 13/16 is performable counting on 2s and 3s. One >> example is Krivo Sadovsko horo (Bulgaria), 13 = 4+5+4, 4=2+2, 5 = 2+3: >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jCuUWnwM28 >> Another is Ispayche horo, 13 = 3+2+3+2+3 >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbU2za0rbzs >> >> At higher tempo, one may need to count on 3s, 4s, and 5s, especially when >> clapping hands: >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aecsGYwtVJM >> This is a Leventikos, in video video, it is in 16 = 4+2+3+4+3, but the clap >> hands 4+5+4+3. >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leventikos > > Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not familiar with these dances), but > these are just groupings of steady 16th notes, are they not.
Yes, in the definition of the meter, in respons to your question whether it might be performable. 13/8 and even 13/16 is performable at moderato counting on the 1/4s, though I have no example of the 3+3+3+3+1 occurring naturally. > My example wasn't. Then one add another level on the musical line. One example how this occurs metrically is the Leventikos in 12. >> This Leventikos is also performed in 12 = 3+2+2+3+2, with quadruplets on the >> 3s - se my other post in this thread. > > OK, the quadruplets add another layer of complexity. The note > durations are now 3+3+3+3+ 4+4+ 4+4+ 3+3+3+3+ 4+4 / 48. > So taking this Leventikos pattern, I've bent the "4/4+1/3" so > that it contains similar tupleticity, to coin a nonce word. Yes, indeed. In the Leventikos, the quadruplet pattern occurs consistently. When performing, there are slower 1/16th contrasted with faster ones. Some performers have triplets on the 2s, and quintuplets occur in Balkan music as well. So it can be more complex. > I've broken the 13/8 time signature into the appropriate groups, > 3/8+3/8+3/8+3/8+1/8. I've followed this with the 4/4/+1/12 > time signature's equivalent notation for the same durations. > The actual rhythm of the individual notes in both cases is > 4+4+4+ 3+3+3+3+ 4+4+4+ 3+3+3+3+ 4 / 52. A problem with this meter is that the 1/3 at the end is fairly short, so it may be distorted by metric time bends: there is a tendency in Balkan music to shorten the measure at the end. So the question is how to bring out the triplet nature. Otherwise replacing the 1/3 with 1/4 or 1/2 might do well, from the practical point of view. The meter 9 = 2+2+2+3 is very common, so at faster tempo, your meter may sound like this one. Some examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-2HVFc4k_k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78ycWoNozLY > At the bottom are the versions with undivided notes, with > the 1/12 notes represented in the only way I can think of. > > One interesting thing that popped out of my 3/8 notation is > that the odd quaver at the end of each bar can be linked to > the three quavers in the next bar. The upshot is that the > overall rhythm is a repeated (4-slow 4-fast 3-slow 4-fast). Syncopations are common in Balkan music, also on the ornamental level. > The same rhythm is contained in the 4/4+1/12 notation, but > is it easy to spot? You could make it obvious by writing > 4:2⅔ > ┌———————┐ over it, and leave people to ponder whether its > speed is the same as the triplet's. Lets' see, 2⅔ is 8/3 > so 4:(8/3) is 4*3:8 is 12:8 is 3:2. Success. > > Having that 1/8 quaver sitting next to the other three makes > the rhythm quite friendly. If the first beat of the bar is > an undivided dotted crochet, that last quaver is much > harder to time correctly. Of course, we have no idea what > the OP wanted to set to their "4/4+1/3" signature, how it > would be divided etc. The choice may depend on whether the the 1/4s are divided into triplets or 2s and 4s. You might write out both versions, for convenience of the musician. So might have a supporting percussion line with triplets on the 1/4s in the meter 4/4 + 1/3, which the other musicians can follow. Then the 4s might be divided into 2s and 4s. _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user