>
> > Nota bene: I didn't yet add any examples that take advantage of David new
> > possibilities:
>
> Ah, but that was sort of the point.
>
Sure, I'm sorry :(
I'll help with that too when I will be able to access this new feature.
> P.S. I would have liked to add a screenshot of the generated output
> > immediately after each piece of code.
> > This would make this much more interesting, easy to follow and discuss.
> But
> > I remember that on this mailing list pictures have to be attached and not
> > put inside the mail.
>
> I use inline MIME attachments and there are few complaints, but some
> mail clients do some sort of HTML contraption not working in text mode
> and those will not make it through a lot of mail clients or mailing list
> summarisers.
>
I guessed what the problem was and I hope it will change in the following
years so that we will be able to write clearer posts.
For me, reading (and writing) an email with pictures attached is like
reading a book with numbered photographs placed at the end of the book.
But I know that this is an old argument on which many of us are
hypersensitive. My apologies.
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
> > \markup {"Simple \appendToTag with {}"}
> > \version "2.23.2"
> > music = {c'1 \tag #'here {} c''1}
> > {\music}
> > {\appendToTag #'here g'1 \music}
> > {\pushToTag #'here g'1 \music}
>
> Tagging an empty {} and pushing a single element means that there is no
> visible difference between \appendToTag and \pushToTag .
>
David, this was the point of the example!
You read this short code, you see the output, you think about these two
things and because of the simplicity of the example you understand how it
works *without* reading long explanations.
> > {\appendToTag #'here {e'4 f' g' a'} \music}
> > {\pushToTag #'here {e'4 f' g' a'} \music}
>
> Same here, and the example is more complex than necessary for bringing
> the point across.
>
I'm sorry I am of exactly the opposite opinion!
In the previous example you see the simplest possible \pushToTag and
\appendToTag example. It adds a single note.
And now you see an example just a bit more complex with a compound musical
expression.
As before, because of the simplicity of the input and the output you should
easily understand it and also easily compare with the previous example.
But we're probably too far in our opinions. I'm not interested in changing
your mind of course. If those examples are not useful I'm sorry and that's
ok.
> \markup {"Nested \appendToTag with {}"}
> > \version "2.23.2"
> > music = {c'1 \tag #'here {} c''1}
> > {\music}
> > {\appendToTag #'here d'4 \appendToTag #'here e'4 \appendToTag #'here f'4
> > \appendToTag #'here g' \music}
> > {\pushToTag #'here d'4 \pushToTag #'here e'4 \pushToTag #'here f'4
> > \pushToTag #'here g' \music}
>
> This at least shows a difference between \appendToTag and \pushToTag
>
Yes, but this in my opinion makes sense only *after* you saw and you
understood the other examples. And you compare it with the previous example.
> \markup {"\appendToTag with {} and multiple different tag"}
> > \version "2.23.2"
> > music = {c'4 d' e' f' \tag #'firstLocation {}
> > g' a' b' c'' \tag #'secondLocation {} }
> > {\music}
> > {\appendToTag #'secondLocation {d''2 e''} \appendToTag #'firstLocation
> {g'4
> > f' g' f'} \music}
> >
> > \markup {"\appendToTag with {} and multiple equal tag"}
> > \version "2.23.2"
> > music = {c'4 d' e' f' \tag #'firstLocation {}
> > g' a' b' c'' \tag #'firstLocation {}
> > b' a' g' f' \tag #'firstLocation {} }
> > {\music}
> > {\appendToTag #'firstLocation {g'2 r} \music}
>
> This just makes the example more complicated without demonstrating any
> additional functionality or use. Makes it hard to interpret either
> manual entry or regtest.
>
This shows something different and that in my opinion you should know and
it was not visible in the previous examples.
If you read it after the previous example you should very easily understand
it and put it aside for when you will need it.
>
> > % I don't see any good reason to use the following.
> > % It mix different things making everything a bit more complex
> > % to understand withouth any advantage (imho).
> > % That's why I'm not sure it makes sense to show it.
> > \markup {"\appendToTag with {some music}"}
> > \version "2.23.2"
> > music = {c'1 \tag #'here {d'2 e'} c''1}
> > {\music}
> > {\pushToTag #'here {f'4 g' a' b'} \music}
> > {\appendToTag #'here {f'4 g' a' b'} \music}
>
> This at least shows a difference between \pushToTag and \appendToTag .
>
The fact that it shows the difference between \pushToTag and \appendToTag
is absolutely not my point. The difference between them is shown in the
previous examples.
Playing with lilypond I personally needed a way to indicate a location
inside a musical expression where I could add some musical material. I have
absolutely no idea if others have the same need or not. But if you have
this specific need then I think the following is extra clear:
music = {c'1 \tag #'here {} c''1}
the "{}" indicate the location.
When you start making something like this:
music = {c'1 \tag #'here {d'2 e'} c''1}
you're mixing things and making them more complex. And to *me* is not clear
why I should use/explain this.
Actually the comment at the beginning of the example saying "I don't see
any good reason etc." was to start a discussion about something that
probably I didn't understand well and NOT to suggest to not use it.
> > % {\appendToTag #'here <e' g' b'>1 \music} % Doesn't work. Adding a chord
> > to a chord is not defined/allowed
>
> Should it, though? Should there be something else for achieving that
> effect? If so, what interface?
>
Ahem. This code for me doesn't make sense. And I have no idea how we could
interpret it so that it could be meaningful.
But because I consider myself a beginner I mentioned it. Maybe I missed
something or maybe someone more experts than me could add some nice ideas.
> % {\appendToTag #'here {e'1 g'1 b'1} \music} % Doesn't work. Adding a
> > compound music expression to a chord not defined/allowed
>
> I have no problem with _that_ not being allowed.
>
Same for me :) And same as my previous comment.
> \markup {"\appendToTag with <c' e'>"}
> > \version "2.23.2"
> > music = {c'1 \tag #'here <c' e'>1 c''1}
> > {\music}
> > {\appendToTag #'here g'1 \appendToTag #'here b'1 \music}
> > % {\appendToTag #'here g'4 \music} % Doesn't work. Adding a 4 duration
> note
> > to a 1 duration chord is not defined/allowed
>
> In my book, there is no big point served in trying to prohibit it, and[...]
>
I have no clear idea about it and I didn't consider it very important. I
mentioned it because during my "playing" activity with lilypond I tried it.
By the way, I didn't mentioned it but I made some "test" also with
{c'1 \tag #'here <<>> c''1}
Maybe I will write about them in the future :)
Do you see why I hate writing documentation and regtests?
>
In my humble opinion I see why you should not write documentation. But I'm
extremely fallible and this is my (actual) opinion.
I also think you have some nice communication problems (that I know and I
like). I have (many) communication problems too.
I guess, but it's only a guess, you write very good regtests even if you
don't like to write them.
Ciao,
Gianmaria
P.S. This is the only example of \pushToTag and \endToTag I found in the
documentation.
test = { \tag #'here { \tag #'here <<c''>> } }
{
\pushToTag #'here c'
\pushToTag #'here e'
\pushToTag #'here g' \test
\appendToTag #'here c'
\appendToTag #'here e'
\appendToTag #'here g' \test
}
In my opinion this is a fantastic zen exercise. You read it, you appreciate
the esthetic aspects (output also!), and you can meditate on it.
But I think it is also very well done to make people (people like me, of
course) don't understand how \pushToTag and \appendToTag work.
It is possible that I have already moaned about this, sorry.
