I think that evidence comes from other parts of the country but not so much around here. I grew up in Atlanta and if a housing development like this was planned near your house, you put your house on the market as soon as possible and try to sneak out. I think our property values will be fine assuming the complexes stay neat and tidy (not guaranteed).
This issue is quality of life - traffic. If we were truly doing something altruistic, it would be better but this is just adding a bunch of wealthy condo owners and apartment dwellers. @Bryce - would you feel the same way if this proposal was on Trapelo Rd? Rob Rob On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 10:30 AM Bryce Wells via Lincoln < lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote: > *"and loss of property values that is sure to come out of having massive > apartment complexes without enough parking be your neighbor."* > > This is the biggest red herring in any and all discussions about > development... and should never be mentioned as it's rarely true. Please > provide evidence of this occurring... Sudbury, Concord, or Weston which > have all had recent "mid to large" developments. > > > > On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 10:20 AM ٍSarah Postlethwait <sa...@bayhas.com> > wrote: > >> The issue isn’t that we don’t want progress. The issue is that Only 20% >> of the 42 acres needs to be near Lincoln Station to comply with the HCA. >> However *100%+ of the 42 acres minimum is in south Lincoln in all 3 of >> the proposed options* (64 acres in south Lincoln in options A and B and >> 70.2 acres in option C) >> >> Perhaps some of the 20,000 sq/ft lots in other parts of town could bear >> some of the burden of this rezoning and traffic- and loss of property >> values that is sure to come out of having massive apartment complexes >> without enough parking be your neighbor. >> >> If the HCAWG proposed options that didn’t far exceed the minimums that >> the HCA has asked for (which already were overburdensome for our town) and >> concentrated it all within half a mile at Lincoln Station- then there >> likely wouldn’t be this much push back. >> >> But the HCAWG has its own agenda of development near the mall and has >> avoided putting any substantial rezoning anywhere else in Lincoln, and has >> tacked on a 125 unit mixed use development at the mall just for fun. >> >> Not to mention that 90% of these excessive units being proposed will be >> rented and sold at Market rate. *Any developer wanting to build in >> Lincoln should be required to have a minimum of 25% affordable units, just >> as we required for Oriole landing*. Creating overpriced inventory that >> most people won’t be able to afford does not solve the housing crisis. >> >> If the town really wants to comply with the HCA, there needs to be >> another option that has the minimal required rezoning in South Lincoln, >> 70-80% rezoning spread throughout the rest of Lincoln, and any additional >> rezoning beyond what is required needs to go through the traditional town >> meeting process, and needs to have a high affordable housing requirement >> for any developer that wants to build. >> >> Sarah Postlethwait >> Lewis Street >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 9:55 AM John Mendelson <johntmendel...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Save it from what? Progress? Working to help solve the regional >>> challenges of housing, traffic, environment? Providing housing >>> alternatives? >>> >>> Or should we just continue to approve 20,000 sq/ft single family houses >>> on big lots and put our heads in the sand? >>> >>> Lincoln is not an island despite what many seem to wish it could be. >>> >>> John >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 9:47 AM Robert Ahlert <robahl...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> 1000% agree with Susanna. Well said. I have young children and want >>>> them to enjoy Lincoln as it is now, not as another Concord or Bedford or >>>> Lexington. >>>> >>>> Lincoln is precious, save it! >>>> >>>> Rob >>>> >>>> On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 9:41 AM Susanna Szeto <szeto...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> A developer’s only objective is to make money! It is not a charitable >>>>> organization who cares about providing more affordable housing for people! >>>>> Please find one example that proves the contrary! Regarding 😊 ng the >>>>> train to work because they live walking distance to the train station! >>>>> When we moved to Lincoln in 1977, my husband was working at Mass General >>>>> Hospital, an ideal situation for him to take the train to work. He did it >>>>> at the beginning and gave up the idea because for one thing, it ends up >>>>> more costly and the train does not run often enough to give the >>>>> flexibility >>>>> he needs! >>>>> Yes, we have enjoyed decades of living in Lincoln, and we want the >>>>> future generation of Lincolnites to enjoy what we have loved about >>>>> Lincoln, >>>>> the open space, the ‘low key’ nature of our town center even though >>>>> occasionally we complained we are far from everything! We care greatly >>>>> about what will happen to Lincoln even though we both at the later stage >>>>> of >>>>> our lives! So, for the relatively newcomers to town, there are older >>>>> residents in town who do care what is going to happen to Lincoln even >>>>> though it may take decades for the developers to get their hands on >>>>> Lincoln! We have resisted them so far by using our tax dollars to buy up >>>>> lands for conservation! There is no other town like Lincoln that is so >>>>> close to Boston! Please do not let the developers come in to spoil it for >>>>> us! >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 9, 2023, at 11:29 PM, ٍSarah Postlethwait <sa...@bayhas.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> All very well voiced points! >>>>> >>>>> But make no mistake- do not be fooled by the voices saying "potential >>>>> development will take decades". >>>>> If option C of this rezoning gets passed, development will begin >>>>> immediately. >>>>> >>>>> *The HCAWG and the RLF are directly working with Civico, the developer >>>>> of Oriole Landing*. Civico isn’t working with the town because it >>>>> likes us and is a trusted town partner… it wants to make money. >>>>> Civico has threatened the town by saying it will not go through the >>>>> town meeting process again after it did so with Oriole Landing. The >>>>> pro-building HCAWG (which includes the Executive Director of the RLF as a >>>>> member) wants Civico to develop. >>>>> So in turn, the HCAWG and Planning board added mixed Use Zoning at >>>>> Lincoln Center to this proposal so it wouldn’t be necessary for them to go >>>>> through the traditional town meeting process. >>>>> >>>>> This gives Civico the chance to push a high cost, high density housing >>>>> complex (125 units), with only 10% affordable housing (we required 15% >>>>> with >>>>> Oriole landing). And it’s more likely to be passed because *only a >>>>> simple majority is needed under the HCA instead of the usual 2/3 majority >>>>> at town meeting*; not to mention, the HCAWG is making it seem like a >>>>> looming lawsuit and loss of grants are eminent to encourage residents to >>>>> pass the rezoning. >>>>> >>>>> Let me emphasize again- if Civico develops this Subdistrict, it will >>>>> be 112 units at market rate and 13 units of affordable housing. *Market >>>>> rate for Oriole Landing is currently $4,000 to $8,500 without utilities,* >>>>> according to their listing on Apartments.com. >>>>> That is not affordable housing for anyone who wants to downsize or >>>>> work in Lincoln, as many seem to be under the impression this development >>>>> would help. >>>>> >>>>> A slide from the presentation: >>>>> >>>>> <69012668-7F39-478C-B8C4-134AB43AB1A5.jpeg> >>>>> >>>>> <75467D4B-940C-4471-880D-5A25ED122A3D.jpeg> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Oct 9, 2023 at 9:15 PM William Broughton < >>>>> wbroughto...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thank you Bob and Rob, among many others, for the helpful insights. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have a number of concerns with the currently proposed HCA options. >>>>>> The impacts to affordable housing in town (both absolute number and >>>>>> percentage of total), traffic, and finances (taxes) are just a few. >>>>>> >>>>>> As another resident mentioned in a separate thread, the potential for >>>>>> areas like Lincoln Woods, with a higher % of affordable housing units, to >>>>>> one day be redeveloped and, despite an increase in total number of >>>>>> housing >>>>>> units, result in a net decrease in the town's number of affordable units, >>>>>> is concerning. If we can only mandate that 10% of new housing units (in >>>>>> the >>>>>> HCA zone) must be affordable, and the 40b threshold for the town is also >>>>>> 10%, doesn't that imply that the town's overall ratio would get closer >>>>>> and >>>>>> closer to being under the threshold with each new development that is >>>>>> built? What will that result in - yet more development? >>>>>> >>>>>> Further, the argument that the entire district needs to be near >>>>>> the commuter rail station does not make sense to me. The commuter rail >>>>>> is, >>>>>> at its best, inconvenient and expensive, and at its worst it is both of >>>>>> those things, plus unreliable. The traffic study that was shared, in my >>>>>> opinion, grossly understates the potential impact of the additional >>>>>> vehicles resulting from the additional development. The reality is that >>>>>> most people, unless they live in perhaps Boston/Cambridge/Somerville, use >>>>>> cars for much of their daily lives. >>>>>> >>>>>> It also pains me to hear, from multiple individuals, that the >>>>>> "potential development will take decades". I'm a relatively new and >>>>>> young homeowner in Lincoln. I intend to be here in the future "decades" >>>>>> referenced, and I hope to get to enjoy Lincoln with my children in much >>>>>> the >>>>>> same way so many current residents have over the past several decades. >>>>>> These choices we make today will have big impacts, and we can also be >>>>>> sure >>>>>> that this will not be the last effort by the Commonwealth to force >>>>>> additional development in the decades to come. >>>>>> >>>>>> I look forward to the continued lively debate among residents and the >>>>>> various working groups, but it feels like there is much more that needs >>>>>> to >>>>>> be explored before we can have a "final" proposal. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Will Broughton >>>>>> Round Hill Rd >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2023 at 2:32 PM Robert Ahlert <robahl...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank goodness you are paying attention Bob! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The HCA feels like a juggernaut and options were clearly favored >>>>>>> towards “all near Lincoln station”. I have a long series of unanswered >>>>>>> questions. I hope to get answers and publish them all on a blog/website >>>>>>> that everyone can read. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I’ll need help to put it together and get answers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If anyone is even slightly concerned about what is happening with >>>>>>> the HCA in Lincoln, please email me privately or text me on >>>>>>> 781.738.1069. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rob A >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2023 at 1:30 PM Robert Domnitz <bobdom...@hotmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As a recently-retired member of the Planning Board and Housing >>>>>>>> Choice Act Working Group, I am concerned that the three options >>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>> last Saturday at the SOTT - and the plan to choose just one of those >>>>>>>> options at a multi-board meeting on October 10th - will restrict Town >>>>>>>> Meeting to merely rubber-stamping the HCAWG's decision. And the HCAWG's >>>>>>>> decision will reflect its embedded priorities that may differ from what >>>>>>>> town meeting would choose if we are given more options. I therefore >>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>> it is crucial for the HCAWG to submit several options to the state for >>>>>>>> advisory opinions prior to Town Meeting. All options should be >>>>>>>> presented to >>>>>>>> Town Meeting for debate and vote. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'd like to expand on some of the points made - and some of the >>>>>>>> points omitted - by the presenters at last Saturday's SOTT meeting. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. *About 35% of the town's residences are currently multi-family* >>>>>>>> (not including Hanscom Field, see list below). Most folks are surprised >>>>>>>> when they hear this. Lincoln has done an outstanding job allowing >>>>>>>> multi-family living while maintaining our rural character. With full >>>>>>>> build-out under the HCA, multi-family housing will approach 50% of >>>>>>>> the town's inventory. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2. *State guidelines for the HCA provide a mechanism for towns to * >>>>>>>> *get** credit for existing multifamily housing.* Towns are free to >>>>>>>> locate HCA-compliant subdistricts in areas that currently have high >>>>>>>> residential density. These subdistricts will help us meet our "quota," >>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>> though it is very unlikely these areas will be redeveloped. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 3. *An evaluation of the various options requires consideration of >>>>>>>> the likelihood that redevelopment will **actually **occur.* >>>>>>>> Existing condo developments would require consent of the owners to >>>>>>>> redevelop, with the particular procedures laid out in the condominiums' >>>>>>>> organizational documents. If condo owners don't want redevelopment >>>>>>>> to happen, it won't happen. Existing apartment buildings (e.g., >>>>>>>> Oriole Landing) owned by a single entity would only require a decision >>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>> that entity and would depend on their analysis of whether an increase >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> density would justify the cost of redevelopment. On the other hand, >>>>>>>> rezoning single family homes on Conant Road as shown in options A,B, >>>>>>>> and C >>>>>>>> from the HCAWG would likely result in rapid redevelopment, as >>>>>>>> owners on Conant Road take advantage of the jump in value that >>>>>>>> would result from the increase in development potential. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 4. *State guidelines require that only 20% of the HCA-compliant >>>>>>>> district be located in the vicinity of the commuter rail station*. >>>>>>>> The other 80% can be anywhere in town. However, the HCAWG eliminated >>>>>>>> consideration of the Farrar Pond and Lincoln Ridge condos as "too far >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> any amenities and public transit." See link below to p. 17 of SOTT >>>>>>>> slide >>>>>>>> deck. This area could be used as part of our plan for compliance; the >>>>>>>> HCAWG's decision to eliminate consideration of this area reflects their >>>>>>>> prioritization of access to public transit and goes beyond what the >>>>>>>> state >>>>>>>> requires. Similarly, the Commons/Oriole Landing area was removed from >>>>>>>> consideration by the HCAWG because it is "not walkable to any public >>>>>>>> transit or public amenities." See p. 20 of SOTT slide deck. Instead, >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> HCAWG has proposed placing 100% of the district in Lincoln Station >>>>>>>> (option >>>>>>>> C) or adding to option C additional subdistricts in North Lincoln so >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> the total development potential greatly exceeds what is necessary for >>>>>>>> compliance. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 5. *The HCAWG should consider other ways of splitting the HCA >>>>>>>> district. *The current option C fully complies with the HCA by >>>>>>>> allowing development only within the Lincoln Station area. If >>>>>>>> compliance >>>>>>>> with state law is our objective, options A and B are less appealing >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> they needlessly add to option C more development potential elsewhere in >>>>>>>> town. Among the three options, C is the obvious choice for most >>>>>>>> residents >>>>>>>> because it minimally complies with the HCA. But the Town deserves a >>>>>>>> chance >>>>>>>> to vote on other options that do not exceed the HCA's requirements. >>>>>>>> Three >>>>>>>> options that would make sense are: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Place the entire district at Lincoln Station (current option C) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Place most of the district at Lincoln Station and some of the >>>>>>>> district elsewhere. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Place some of the district at Lincoln Station and most of the >>>>>>>> district elsewhere. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For all options, the details should be worked out for minimal >>>>>>>> compliance with the HCA, giving Lincoln residents maximum control over >>>>>>>> future land use decisions. It's worth noting that the HCA does allow, >>>>>>>> on a >>>>>>>> discretionary basis, subdistrict boundaries that do not match parcel >>>>>>>> boundaries. This may provide the Town with additional flexibility it >>>>>>>> needs >>>>>>>> to comply with, but not exceed, the HCA's requirements. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Residents deserve a meaningful, democratic chance to choose the >>>>>>>> level of development they want in the Lincoln Station area. Due to the >>>>>>>> limited set of options that were presented, I don't think the survey >>>>>>>> taken >>>>>>>> at the SOTT is a good indicator of the will of the town. Surprisingly, >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> HCAWG did not propose an option where some development allowed >>>>>>>> elsewhere in >>>>>>>> Town is used to reduce the development allowed at Lincoln Station. All >>>>>>>> three of their options allow more than 400 units of additional >>>>>>>> development >>>>>>>> in the Lincoln Station area. That is an extreme increase compared to >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>> currently exists in the area. See p. 40 of SOTT slide deck. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My goal in writing this post is to encourage the HCAWG to give our >>>>>>>> Town Meeting the respect and deference to which it is entitled. This >>>>>>>> is a >>>>>>>> hugely important matter for the Town and we can move forward together >>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>> if Town Meeting has a meaningful role as the decisionmaker. Please >>>>>>>> attend >>>>>>>> the October 10th multi-board meeting to share your thoughts. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best regards to all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bob Domnitz >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> SOTT slide deck: Follow link found in >>>>>>>> https://www.lincolntown.org/1327/Housing-Choice-Act-Working-Group >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Existing multifamily housing in Lincoln (not including Hanscom >>>>>>>> housing): >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Commons >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Oriole Landing >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Battle Road Farms >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Minuteman Commons >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Lincoln Woods >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Greenridge Condos >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Flying Nun" apartments >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ridge Road apartments >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ridge Road Condos >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Todd Pond Condos >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Farrar Pond Condos >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Lincoln Ridge Condos >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ryan Estate >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Accessory Apartments in Single Family Homes >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Miscellaneous (Scattered sites under Housing Comm.) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>>>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>>>>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>>>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Robert Ahlert* | *781.738.1069* | robahl...@gmail.com >>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>>> Browse the archives at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>>> -- >>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>> Browse the archives at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>> Change your subscription settings at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>> >>> -- >> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >> Browse the archives at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >> Change your subscription settings at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >> >> -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- *Robert Ahlert* | *781.738.1069* | robahl...@gmail.com
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