Linux-Advocacy Digest #603, Volume #26 Fri, 19 May 00 17:13:08 EDT
Contents:
Re: progamming models, unix vs Windows (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux ("Anthony W. Youngman")
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux ("Anthony W. Youngman")
Re: progamming models, unix vs Windows (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Top 10 Reasons to use Linux ("Cihl")
Re: Never saw Linux die? Try this.... (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Top 10 Reasons to use Linux (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Your office and Linux. (abraxas)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (brian moore)
Re: Why my company will NOT use Linux (Aaron Kulkis)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: progamming models, unix vs Windows
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 16:43:37 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Robert L." wrote:
>
> "mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit dans le message news:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> > >
> > > mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Look at Windows. This is a prime example of an environment where micro
> > > > computer paradigms that have survived, not because they are better,
> but
> > > > it is what people have gotten used to.
> > > >
> > > > Just to name one: drive letters.
> > > > Why does one need drive letters? The only reason they exist is because
> > > > DOS did not have a hierarchical file system until version 2.0. 2.0!!!
> do
> > > > you believe it?
> > >
> > > Drive letters are a convenience today, not a necessity. NT doesn't need
> > > them, since it can work entirely via UNC. Many apps still use them
> though,
> > > since the majority of non-new users have been educated to use them.
> >
> > For the most part applications will still not use UNC. NT does not count
> > because the lion share is still just Windows.
> >
> > Windows is still dependent on a real mode DOS.
> > It still needs "himem.sys" to allocate "extended" memory?
> > The core OS still uses EMS page swapping.
> > Windows still uses DOS's PSP structures to manage processes.
>
> This is the reasons Windows Millenium edition get rid of dos. No more
> autoexec.bat, config.sys, etc... We can't "restart in msdos". The dos is now
> an emulator.
> It's a good thing that dos doesn't exist anymore.
> WinME beta3.
>
> but drive letter still exist.
Idiocy dies hard in Redmond.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
------------------------------
From: "Anthony W. Youngman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:20:25 +0100
Reply-To: "Anthony W. Youngman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, eyez
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>quoting <Leslie Mikesell>:
>>I haven't touched Debian since my first experience with dselect in
>>1996 or so. I'm sure it has improved since then but I couldn't
>>deal with their attitude about how much better dpkg/dselect was
>>(when it didn't even work on a lot of systems) compared to rpm.
>>I'd be very surprised if that attitude every goes away to a
>>point where they would share rpm tools with RedHat.
>
>From my experience with debian, dpkg/dselect/apt *IS* better than rpm.
>The biggest problem with rpm's on debian is that the dependency databases
>for rpm as compared to the dpkg/apt ones are completely incompatible.
Also, aiui, rpm is sadly broken compared to dpkg... If a package has a
"required" dependency registered with dpkg, you can be pretty sure that
trying to run the dependent package will fail if the required package
isn't installed. On the other hand it was a devil of a job to install
SuSE *without* installing OSS and ISDN4LINUX because rpm said these
packages were "required" - on a bare-bones system with no sound or isdn
card. And I gather it's rpm's fault, not SuSE - those packages may be
required, therefore they must be marked as required, therefore the
system tries to force you to install them :-(
>however, debian's distributions do currently contain the 'rpm' program as
>well as 'alien', so you can convert an rpm to a .deb... debian has strived
>to make the dpkg system work completely, in such a way that debian's
>children (stormlinux, corel, libranet, et cetera) are all fully compatible
>with debian. Any of these systems could be updated to debian with little
>effort through the apt-system, and That would work reversely. Also, apt
>could check each of the mirror sites for each of these distributions, and
>update packages from all of them just as effortlessly. (Don't argue with me, I
>had a concurrent debian-Woody/StormLinux-Rain system for a while). That's a
>level of consistency that RedHat with it's SuSE/Mandrake/Caldera spawns can't
>compete.
Just one point - SuSE is *NN*OO*TT* the spawn of RedHat (excuse my
screaming). SuSE the distro predates RedHat (iirc it's the spawn of
Slack or, more likely, Yggdrasil) and SuSE the company predates linux
itself (I think they were a minix distributor).
>
>I've had to install some rpm packages on my debian system before, and it's
>not hard to do, but it annoys me just the same that nobody ELSE supports
>any package format but rpm.
>
And as a result of SuSE predating RedHat, SuSE rpms are incompatible
with RedHat ones :-( I wish they'd switch to dpkg, but I bet there would
be incompatibilities with Debian there too - for the same reasons -
maintaining backwards compatibility breaks sidewards compatibility :-(
>>
>> Les Mikesell
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
--
Anthony W. Youngman - wol at thewolery dot demon dot co dot uk
Witches are curious by definition and inquisitive by nature. She moved in. "Let
me through. I'm a nosey person.", she said, employing both elbows.
Maskerade : (c) 1995 Terry Pratchett
------------------------------
From: "Anthony W. Youngman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:08:14 +0100
Reply-To: "Anthony W. Youngman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, JEDIDIAH
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>On Thu, 18 May 2000 16:26:02 GMT, Doug Alcorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>Lathi gets out a clue stick.
>>
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH) writes:
>>
>>> On Thu, 18 May 2000 04:49:10 GMT, Mongoose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> >On Thu, 18 May 2000 01:00:45 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>> So what is the problem with doing this in the KDE desktop?
>>> >>
>>> >>KDE isn't free.
>>> >
>>> > uh what? I don't remember paying for KDE...
>>>
>>> It's base library is "owned" by a corporation.
>>>
>>> A good suggestion might be to replace libqt entirely with a
>>> completely liberated clone. However, it's dubious whether or
>>> not the KDE developers would actually take advantage of such
>>> a thing.
>>
>>First, the Qt library _is_ now free. Trolltech decided to license it
>
> It's 'kinda' free. It's still owned by Trolltech.
So what. By your definition linux isn't free - it's owned by Linus.
Likewise gcc isn't free - it's owned by the FSF.
>
> Should Trolltech get scooped up by alien, it will be free.
>
>[deletia]
>
> The ultimate proof is in the ports: So where are those Be and Mac
> versions?
>
> Contributors are, afterall, the whole point of a Free licence.
>
By your definition, if it's got a Free Licence, then it's not free. It's
only free if it's Public Domain (which means anyone can instantly take
it non-free).
--
Anthony W. Youngman - wol at thewolery dot demon dot co dot uk
Witches are curious by definition and inquisitive by nature. She moved in. "Let
me through. I'm a nosey person.", she said, employing both elbows.
Maskerade : (c) 1995 Terry Pratchett
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: progamming models, unix vs Windows
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 16:46:27 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Give me a break, tell me how using drive letters does not constitute a
> > "programming model" in a programming.
>
> Because it's a direct consequence of the operating system. This does
Thus, it is a programming model.
dork!
> not change an application writers design strategy - in fact, the
> application designer does not even need to know about it. I have not
> heard of drive letters getting in the way of Unix to Windows porting
> efforts, for example.
>
> A discussion of Windows vs. Unix programming models would be
> interesting, but this issue is really one of filename semantics, not of
> programming.
>
> > Oh, please. "drive specifiers" and "drive labels" are different from
> > "drive letters." "drive letters" are limited to 26, drive specifiers
> are
> > not limited. I made no mention of the UNIX metaphor of mounting file
> > systems. I have used VMS, CP/M, and countless other systems. You are
> the
> > one that assumes I was basing my observations strictly on a UNIX
> > metaphor. Mine was the observation of how limited DOS had to be and
> how
> > no effort was made to get rid of the limits.
>
> So what do you perceive at the limitations of DOS drive letters, _which
> are not limitations of multi-character drive labels_?
>
> The only limit I see is that you cannot have more than 26 local drives
> on a system. This also, I would like to point out, is a rather
> pedestrian observation, and not really very interesting. Remember,
> network drives can be accessed through UNC. I do not know of many
> machines, which have more than 26 local drives. Have you run into this
> limitation on Windows servers that you are deploying? Have you ever
> heard of anybody trying to plug 26 local drives into a Windows machine?
>
> > You, however, choose to insult.
>
> Last time I check, providing scathing evidence to disprove a point made
> by somebody is not "insult", but "debate".
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:43:05 GMT
On 19 May 2000 14:50:04 -0500, Leslie Mikesell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>brian moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[deletia]
>>See http://www.pathname.com/fhs/
>
>Odd that it is a compressed pdf. Does anyone have netscape and
>acrobat configured to read such a combination directly? Maybe
>I'll just wait for the next revision.
Sure... just set up one of the pdf readers as a Netscape helper app.
Still, I can't imagine what they think they need pdf for such that
HTML wouldn't be just as suitable.
--
In what language does 'open' mean 'execute the evil contents of' |||
a document? --Les Mikesell / | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: "Cihl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Top 10 Reasons to use Linux
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:46:23 GMT
SiKing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in berichtnieuws
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 1$worth wrote:
> > Yes, I find penguins sexy, what's your problem?
>
> http://www.stileproject.com/lls.html
> no problem here ...
That's silly :-)
Do these girls actually use Linux or were they just picked at random?
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Never saw Linux die? Try this....
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 16:50:50 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2:1 wrote:
>
> . wrote:
> >
> > Canoscan scanner parallel port attached.
> >
> > Try running the scanner identification program that Sane uses.
> >
> > Kills Linux completely...No other terminals to log into. Can't kill X
> > server. Completely dead.......Red Switch Time....
>
> I've got several more involving SVGA utilities.
> Admittedly, most of these actually kill the machine, but they render it
> useless without a terminal or network.
>
> Try running SVGATextMode from X.
> Write an SVGALib forgram that disables VC switching, goes in to raw
> keyboard access then have a stupid bug that leads to an infinite loop
> Do something nasty to the VGA card (I've no idea what i did) that seems
> to make it never release the bus (or something wierd).
Oh, that's an indictment....
purposely writing something that makes the video card tie up the
bus, so that the CPU never executes another instruction..
yes, a TOTAL indicitment of the Unix kernal..
(God, you're stupid).
>
> -Ed
>
> --
> Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold weather is
> because
> of all the fish in the atmosphere?
> -The Hackenthorpe Book Of Lies
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Top 10 Reasons to use Linux
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 16:58:16 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Full Name wrote:
>
> 10. You can't afford a real Unix system such as Solaris.
>
> 9. You have no friends and no life, so spending all day building
> kernels is actually a step up.
>
> 8. The Internet isn't all it's cracked up to be anyway, so who cares
> if I can't connect to my ISP.
>
> 7. You have a weird sexual fetish for pot bellied penguins.
>
> 6. Your father committed suicide during the 80's stock market crash
> by leaping form the 15'Th story and the mere mention of the word
> "window" causes you to break down and cry.
>
> 5. You secretly hate your friends and family for not recognising your
> obvious genius and recommending Linux to them is your way of
> extracting revenge.
>
> 4. You hate yourself and as a child you hated your mother.
>
> 3. Your one and only girlfriend became infatuated with Bill Gates and
> ran away to Redmond.
>
> 2. The school bully who gave you a wedgy while you were making eyes at
> the only female computer geek in your class is an avid Windows user.
>
> And the number one reason for using Linux...
>
> 1. You actually enjoy having a pineapple shoved up your arse.
This has all the elements of a joke,
except it lacks any punchlines.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Your office and Linux.
Date: 19 May 2000 20:55:50 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
*snip a whole bunch of unwrapped lines*
We can wrap lines, winfag.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:59:54 GMT
On Fri, 19 May 2000 20:08:14 +0100, Anthony W. Youngman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, JEDIDIAH
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>>On Thu, 18 May 2000 16:26:02 GMT, Doug Alcorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>Lathi gets out a clue stick.
>>>
>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH) writes:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 18 May 2000 04:49:10 GMT, Mongoose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> >On Thu, 18 May 2000 01:00:45 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>> So what is the problem with doing this in the KDE desktop?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>KDE isn't free.
>>>> >
>>>> > uh what? I don't remember paying for KDE...
>>>>
>>>> It's base library is "owned" by a corporation.
>>>>
>>>> A good suggestion might be to replace libqt entirely with a
>>>> completely liberated clone. However, it's dubious whether or
>>>> not the KDE developers would actually take advantage of such
>>>> a thing.
>>>
>>>First, the Qt library _is_ now free. Trolltech decided to license it
>>
>> It's 'kinda' free. It's still owned by Trolltech.
>
>So what. By your definition linux isn't free - it's owned by Linus.
>Likewise gcc isn't free - it's owned by the FSF.
Sort of relicencing it to someone else, neither Linus nor
the FSF have any ownership right over the code that I do
not. I can fork either's work to my hearts desire.
>>
>> Should Trolltech get scooped up by alien, it will be free.
>>
>>[deletia]
>>
>> The ultimate proof is in the ports: So where are those Be and Mac
>> versions?
>>
>> Contributors are, afterall, the whole point of a Free licence.
>>
>By your definition, if it's got a Free Licence, then it's not free. It's
>only free if it's Public Domain (which means anyone can instantly take
>it non-free).
Actually, by my 'right to fork' definition a wide variety of
licences are Free including the X licence, the perl artistic
licence, the BSDL and the L/GPLs.
Also, there's a real issue of perception. A free licence is a
bit of PR as much as anything else. Regardless of the legal
language you think you've crafted, you still have to convince
contributors that it's worth their while.
That's why the GPL was created to begin with.
--
In what language does 'open' mean 'execute the evil contents of' |||
a document? --Les Mikesell / | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (brian moore)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: 19 May 2000 21:03:21 GMT
On Fri, 19 May 2000 20:08:14 +0100,
Anthony W. Youngman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, JEDIDIAH
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
> >
> > It's 'kinda' free. It's still owned by Trolltech.
>
> So what. By your definition linux isn't free - it's owned by Linus.
> Likewise gcc isn't free - it's owned by the FSF.
No, you are free to take a kernel tarball, say "bite me linus, I want
the foo feature!" and fork the code. Whether any one would care about
your fork is a different matter.
Likewise, you're free to take the gcc tarball and say "damn, the FSF is
too slow on updating this for modern CPU's, I'll add better optimizing
code and generally enhance it." (And, pretty much the above happened
with egcs when Cygnus got tired of waiting for FSF updates.)
You can NOT do that with Qt. You can supply patchfiles against their
version, but you're not allowed to distribute your new-and-improved
version standalone.
> > Contributors are, afterall, the whole point of a Free licence.
> >
> By your definition, if it's got a Free Licence, then it's not free. It's
> only free if it's Public Domain (which means anyone can instantly take
> it non-free).
No, you haven't read the "Q Public License".
The QPL requires software be free (as in free beer). It also requires
you to submit any software you link with QT to them, even if it is not
distributed and from the wording it seems that they want you to give
them unlimited rights to even your own personal (again, non
distributed) programs that you link to Qt.
In other words, if you do work-for-hire and write an application for
someone, not only do you have to provide them with the source (which is
fair), that would be in violation of the Qt license (ie, your program
wouldn't be zero cost). If you did it for free as a favor for a
friend, you'd still be obliged to surrender your code to Trolltech and
let them redistribute it to others.
--
Brian Moore | Of course vi is God's editor.
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker | If He used Emacs, He'd still be waiting
Usenet Vandal | for it to load on the seventh day.
Netscum, Bane of Elves.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why my company will NOT use Linux
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:07:39 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fredrik wrote:
>
> THe Solitare Cards DO look nice in Windows!! Unless Linux cancome up
> with something similar, it will never take of the desktop.. SOlitare,
> the ultimate Windows Killer app... *sigh*
> Well, seriously, X can't proper anti-aliasing yet. Suppose it will get
> there in the end... But I never really understand why people care so
> much.. it's not THAT increadible big difference... Hmmm, maybe it's just
> my monitor that's dodgy and blurry... Hey, built in antialiasing in the
> monitor! Hardcore!
Never had problem running XFree86 on my monitor at 1600x1200.
>
> cheers
>
> Matt Gaia wrote:
> >
> > Hmmm....you actually try to base a Linux experience with your experience
> > with StarOffice *troll detector starts going off*? First off, if you even
> > try to do this, you should have any copy of Linux/Unix/etc... taken off
> > your hands and returned to the store _immediately_. Secondly, you use how
> > the fonts look to base your thoughts on it. Um, no. That's like saying
> > that Windows is nice because you like the pattern on the cards on
> > Solitare. But I'm just going to stop there, since I'll probably be
> > beating a dead horse. :)
> > Matt
> >
> > <<snipped meaningless FUD>>
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
------------------------------
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