Linux-Advocacy Digest #95, Volume #27 Thu, 15 Jun 00 10:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: OT Aboriginal Lifespans was Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Bob Germer)
Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Trevor Smith)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Grant Fischer)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Grant Fischer)
Re: Dealing with filesystem volumes ("Matthew Gardiner")
Re: Why not West Papua ? was: Canada invites Microsoft north now we are really waya
way OT
Re: Dealing with filesystem volumes (Neil Cerutti)
Re: Why Linux should be #1 choice for students! (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Why Linux should be #1 choice for students! (Matthias Warkus)
Re: equivalent to Exchange? (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Why We Should Be Nice To Windows Users -was- Neologism of the day (Jim)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OT Aboriginal Lifespans was Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:54:28 GMT
On 06/15/2000 at 09:13 AM,
John Wiltshire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Yeah - sure there's problems. Anyone know what the life span of other
> ethnic groups is (eg American Indians)?
This varies according to how one defines American Indian, where they live,
and who is doing the counting and why.
Various tribes have differing definitions as to what percentage of their
blood one has to have to be counted as a member. For example, the tribe
which is running the Foxwoods, a huge casino in Connecticut requires only
1/32 tribal blood. The Nez Perce require at least 50%. Indians living on
reservations cannot be used since very few if any of those tribal members
living at Foxwoods are even half Indian, they are wealthier by far than
the average working American (each member gets a free home, a free car,
and something like $60,000 tax free a year besides what they are paid in
salary). Some of the poorest Americans are those living on reservations in
New Mexico.
And most Americans who legitimately claim Indian heritage do not live on
reservations. They live in ordinary homes in typical communities and work
at typical jobs. Ben Lighthorse Campbell is a U. S. Senator and a Native
American. But he was not raised on a reservation. He was raised as a
typical American in Colorado.
Now to be sure, the Amerinds living on reservations have a shorter life
span than white Americans although this is changing as health care on the
reservations is improving rapidly and has for the past 40 years or so.
Among some tribes and on some reservations, alchol abuse is the biggest
single health concern and contributor to early death. Alcoholism affects a
larger percentage of Native Americans than any other ethnic group, and it
is more prevalent on reservations than among non-reservation Amerinds so
undoubtedly reservation life must in many ways be more stressful than life
off the reservation.
You or others have indicated here that the Aboriginals in Australia are
not nearly so integrated into society as the vast majority of Native
Americans are in ours. In fact, the ability to prove some Indican blood is
a mark of prestige in the US today. Many, many Indians were integrated
into our society by World War II. The served with distinction in every
branch of the armed forces and were not confined to ethnic units as were
Black Americans. Just as the Army and Air Force have been the path to true
integration into our society for the Blacks for the past 50 years, so were
they first for the Native American. I am sad to admit that the Navy, my
branch, was and remains the least amenable branch for non-whites.
I wonder if the last is because our Navy was built as a mirror of the
Royal Navy in which Officers were (and are) considered superior beings to
the enlisted ranks. As Midshipmen, we were taught that we were superior in
every way to enlisted men and women and were not allowed to fraternize in
any way. Thankfully, this was not true for the other two branches (the
Marine Corps is part of the Navy, not a separate branch. Its policies are
a mixture of Navy and Army).
I was reprimanded and nearly had an entry placed in my jacket for
fraternizing with an enlisted man while on my Youngster cruise. I was told
that I was seen leaving with a Machinist Mate 1st Class and spending the
night in his off-base quarters. It was true. I, however, pointed out that
the rating's name was Fredrick H. Germer, Jr., that he was my first
cousin, that I literally shared a bed with him for over two years while
his father served with MacArthur in the Pacific during World War II and
his mother was out wenching, whoring, and drinking, and that I was
godfather to his (at the time) two children. I was then told I should
acquire and wear civilian clothes when accompanying him off the ship
despite the fact that we Middies weren't supposed to HAVE civies while on
cruise!
That attitude is still taught at Anapolis to this day according to my
grandson who is in the Class of 2001.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.19zf Registration Number 67
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:13:30 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote on Thu, 15 Jun 2000 06:35:54 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>On Thu, 15 Jun 2000 06:10:55 GMT, Michael Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Tim Palmer wrote:
>>
>>> PC anywhere blows the pants off some stupid-ass shell script.
>
> ...not on a 2400bps connection it doesn't.
How about a 56k or 384k DSL?
I for one would be mildly surprised if anyone still uses 2400bps.
On the other hand, I'm mildly surprised people are
still using Win3.1. :-)
>
>>
>>PC anywhere also locks you into very few machines and only one OS
>>(unless it's on Mac too). And you need a fat pipe to the internet to
>>get any decent performance. With my stuff I can use any OS that exists
>>with a graphical web browser to view my faxes.
Indeed.
Sigh.
[.sigsnip]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WinNT. When you absolutely, positively want vendor lock.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Trevor Smith)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:15:23 GMT
On Fri, 9 Jun 2000 22:20:12, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (LEBLANC ERIC) wrote:
> It makes more sense to hire somebody that can speak both languages. Anyway, in
> most large city of Quebec an unilingual English speaker can and will find
> him/herself a job.
In the "as much as I hate to defend the language gestapo" department...
I don't doubt that an English-only person in Quebec might be refused a job in the
public sector. It does, more or less, make sense though, since the population in
Quebec must vary from about 50% to 100% French as a first language, depending on where
you are.
Hiring English-only might be workable in Montreal (where probably only 50% of the
people have French as a first language), but when *all* of the French people can speak
French (duh) -- about 50% of the pop -- and *most* of the English people can speak
French -- shrug? -- why would you hire someone that is clearly less skilled
linguistically? I wouldn't expect to get a job with my laughable highschool French
abilities.
As for Mr. Germer's original assertion that "That is not a free country," he is
correct. It (Quebec) is still part of a free country (Canada) but I'm sure someone
will "fix" that situation sooner or later. All I can hope is that they take New
Brunswick with them when they go (except for Sackville, NB, of course). :-)
--
Trevor Smith | trevor@haligonian . com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Grant Fischer)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: 15 Jun 2000 12:22:09 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 23:24:39 GMT, Daniel Johnson o
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> What limitations, exactly?
>
>A good example is the recent Kerberos activify. The Kerberos
>protocol, as originally designed, does not provide enough information
>for NT's security mechanisms to work.
>
>Kerberos was designed to solve a narrower problem; strictly
>authentication. Kerberos tells you who you are talking to,
>but it does not concern itself with security issues per se. Each
>program then handles any security limitations it wishes to
>impose in its own way.
Think layers. Kerberos provided authentication, and other
frameworks like DCE used it and extended it to do authorization.
--
Grant Fischer (gfischer at the domain hub.org)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Grant Fischer)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: 15 Jun 2000 12:33:00 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 23:24:43 GMT, Daniel Johnson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"Leslie Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> If the window is resized (MS-windows is windows-aware, right?) a
>> telnet program should notify the other end of the new size
>> via the telnet protocol.
>
>I can't find anything about this in RFC 764, which seems to be
>the most refect RFC on the telnet protocol, and purports
>to define it. What am I missing?
Try RFC1073.
>
>I'm afraid in practice it isn't. Most people find it very
>difficult to deal with the level of abstraction Unix
>asks for.
You don't need to be dealing with UNIX internals or
command line commands to get good use out of telnet.
There are such things as captive logins that run simple
menu systems (useful for operations control, for example.)
A lot of UNIX users use Windows desktops. Why? MS Office.
--
Grant Fischer (gfischer at the domain hub.org)
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dealing with filesystem volumes
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 00:40:44 +1200
under unix all default unix filesystems are automaticly mounted when the
computer is booted, you will only face the problem if you want to copy
between partitions of different filesystem types, ie from UFS to FAT32.
"Lawrence D¹Oliveiro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Which is the best system for dealing with filesystem volumes?
>
> a) Drive letters (all versions of Windows OT and NT, including Windows
> 2000).
> Pros: You got to be kidding.
> Cons: They reaassign themselves at the slightest excuse; add a new
> drive, and all bets are off as to which of your existing drive letter
> assignments will stay the same.
> Verdict: Stupid 1970s way of doing things that should be ashamed to be
> still showing itself in the 21st century.
>
> b) Mount points (all UNIXes and Linsux).
> Pros: Pretends to make all your volumes look like a single filesystem.
> Cons: Only *pretends* to make all your volumes look like a single
> filesystem (all kinds of within-file-system-only things don't work, like
> hard links). Notoriously error-prone: Copy files to a mount point
> directory when the volume isn't actually mounted, then mount it,
> and--where did those files go? Not only are they on the wrong volume,
> but you can't even access them until you dismount the second volume
> again!
> Verdict: Incompletely thought-out idea. How come the Linux folks are so
> focused on being so faithful to UNIX, when they could be *fixing* some
> of those long-standing, well-known UNIX problems?
>
> c) Per-volume filespecs (MacOS, though I think it was originally
> invented on the original UCSD p-system).
> Pros: System-independent file specifications. A reference to a file on a
> removable/hot-pluggable volume doesn't depend on the location of its
> "mount point", drive ordering or any other system-specific
> configuration: The same reference will work on any other machine
> mounting the same volume. The reference can also be used to
> automatically request the mounting of the correct volume on demand.
> Cons: Can't think of any.
>
> Verdict: MacOS-style file specifications definitely seem to be the way
> to go in the next computing millennium. Why are other systems still
> using such primitive ways of doing things?
------------------------------
Reply-To: <stan>
From: <stan>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why not West Papua ? was: Canada invites Microsoft north now we are
really waya way OT
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 22:42:58 +1000
"Jacques Guy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Christopher Smith wrote:
>
> > > Just my AUD $0.02 worth
>
> > Hmm, I wonder if opinions are GST exempt ? :D
>
> Making your opinion public is a service to the
> community.
>
> Just my AUD $0.022 worth (GST included)
Lets make it to US $0.02 worth being AUD $0.028
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Neil Cerutti)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dealing with filesystem volumes
Date: 14 Jun 2000 17:53:58 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Alan Baker posted:
>All this doesn't deny the possibility of user error and the
>extremely ungraceful recovery that would then be necessary.
>
>Here's a hint: any time you have to justify a system's (any
>system's) behaviour with something like: "well the user will
>just have to avoid that" there's something wrong with the
>system.
Moving, copying, and deleting files is never going to be hazard
proof... until automatic incremental version histories of every
file on user systems is secretly kept as a fail-safe. With
storage becoming so cheap, this might be feasible.
I don't know of a current system that makes file maintenance
idiot-proof. It's just as easy to make an unrecoverable mistake
with a GUI file manager as with a command line. Of course, with
a GUI it will be a "slip of the mouse" instead of a "typo".
--
char NeilCerutti[]= "[EMAIL PROTECTED]";
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: Why Linux should be #1 choice for students!
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 14:56:47 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Wed, 14 Jun 2000 17:02:23 GMT...
...and Bob Hauck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 17:37:51 +0200, Matthias Warkus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >What about floating figures?
>
> Yes, Word 97 floats all of your figures to the end of the document if
> you put in too many. Other times, it floats them right on top of your
> text, such that you can see the text through the figure.
Bah. LaTeX has parameters such as
- max number of figures at top of a page
- max numbers of figures at bottom of a page
- max total numbers of figures on a page
- max fraction of a page that floats may take up
- max fraction of a page that top-aligned floats may take up
- max fraction of a page that bottom-aligned floats may take up
And then it floats all your figures to the top of a page, to the
bottom of a page or to a page of floats according to these values. You
can fine-tune this for individual figures, for example by forbidding
LaTeX to align a certain table.
That beats Word by lengths :)
> >What about references?
>
> Yes, Word 97 has bookmarks, which will work great until you try to
> change the numbering of any of them, at which time all bookmark
> references in your document will revert to "!Bookmark not found!".
Pretty lousy.
> >What about automatic numbering of chapters and subsections?
>
> Yes, Word 97 does this. And it actually works if you don't futz around
> too much. You have to use "styles".
When I move a chapter, will it be renumbered? LaTeX does that.
Can I delete or replace chapter numbers by accident? In LaTeX, this
can't happen.
> >Does Word provide any kind of automatisation to handle all that?
>
> Yes, it will automatically trash your document if it gets too big.
Yeah. :)
mawa
--
Wenn die Wochentage Städte wären...
...dann wäre der Montag Magnitogorsk.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: Why Linux should be #1 choice for students!
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 14:59:05 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the 15 Jun 2000 10:12:29 +0800...
...and Terry Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> (Lyx is a GUI frontend for LaTex, no LaTex knowledge necessary)
> >>
> >> Oh one other thing she likes, the Lyx docs are not full of passwords
> >and irc
> >> channel names, etc !!
> >
> >Passwords aren't usually a problem unless the person starts fscking
> >around with the different options under the Tools menu, which isn't
> >standard newbie behaviour. As for irc channel names, you'll have to
> >enlighten me.
> Hey its a mystery to both of us. I always strip Word docs to text to read her
> stuff, and they were plain to see in the txt. At first she didnt believe me,
> but when I sent her the proof, she did as she recognised the irc channel
> that she'd been on in 1996.
Structured File Format documents (that's what Microsoft programs use,
I think) contain an internal "file system". I take it that it's a
block-oriented one; and where there are file system blocks, there is
slack where trash can show up. Seems like Word gets fresh blocks by
simply duplicating memory pages or such -- zeroing the memory might
result in a performance hit.
It's a huge security hole.
mawa
--
ICH HABE GENUG
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: equivalent to Exchange?
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:39:17 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Wed, 14 Jun 2000 16:49:01 -0400...
...and Stuart Krivis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One of the ways that MS gets a foot in the door of many businesses is
> MS Exchange. Businesses like the idea of an e-mail/groupware server. And
> the client software runs (more or less :-) on their Win 9x machines.
[schnibble]
> Has anyone seen anything that's viable and doesn't cost an arm and a
> leg? Perhaps with a database backend?
Evolution is a groupware client for GNOME that's supposed to do mail
(over different back ends), news, PIM, LDAP access and such. It's
alpha quality, but advances very fast. Contains a lot of buzzword
technology: CORBA, Bonobo, a mail API that clones Java's etc. It
already does mail just fine. Integration of the components (mail,
calendar, contact management, ...) is underway. There is some planned
feature called "Executive Summary", it's unclear what it will do, but
it is a hint that Evolution will not stop at being a messaging client
with PIM. I know that it's based on a client-server architecture, and
I'm pretty sure that in the end, something like the Exchange/Outlook
duo will be the result.
But that may take a year or two -- software development takes time.
They've been advancing incredibly fast, however, as a nice mail client
with PIM, Evolution might be ready by the end of the year. At the
moment, it has just passed the stage of being pure screenshotware.
What's nice about it is that it is standards-based and deeply rooted
in Unix; it will be able to use mbox or MH mail folders, interfaces
directly to sendmail and such.
As for database back ends, there's something for GNOME, too; it's
called gnome-db and is effectively an interface between all common
databases --MySQL, PostgreSQL, Oracle etc.-- and the rest of GNOME.
Something like Access might spin off gnome-db when they're further
along.
Considering that the people who make Evolution (Helix Code, Inc.) are
also developing a spreadsheet aiming at providing all the
functionality of Excel and more and which is very advanced (Gnumeric)
and a Visual Basic clone (gb), it is very probably that in the end,
they want to develop something that can replace Outlook, Access,
Exchange and such.
Note: Take this with a grain of salt and don't expect any quick
successes.
(All the non-Microsoft software mentioned above is free under the GPL,
based on GNOME, and still under heavy development.)
I'm not informed on what KDE are planning or doing, but they surely
have got equivalents in the works. Magellan is supposed to be pretty
impressive (Outlook clone?).
If you want Linux groupware today, the way to go is Web-based
interfaces to custom database applications -- the classic LAMP
(Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP4) stuff or maybe Zope, Midgard or such (all
free). On freshmeat.net, I see announces for Web front ends to things
such as mail every day. But evidently, you always need a good
programmer hacking PHP, Perl, Python or such, because none of this is
very point-and-click. Zope is supposed to, but it isn't very
documented AFAIK and you still need Python scripts.
All in all, the groupware situation on Linux could be much, much
better. Making everything Web-based is fashionable, but not always the
right decision to make. If you're using Notes or Exchange, your best
bet is to stay with Windows.
mawa
--
MicroSoft product, BTW. Real dirty programming.
-- Henrik Clausen
------------------------------
From: Jim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Why We Should Be Nice To Windows Users -was- Neologism of the day
Date: 15 Jun 2000 10:08:26 EDT
In article <394853fe$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Rich C"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8i8drh$oet$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> > What, 20 seconds vs 10 ? Hardly important for an operation that
> > woulnd't
> be
> > *that* common in interactive use.
> >
> > I certainly hope you're using all the appropriate keyboards
> > shortcuts instead of going Start -> Find -> Files ?
>
> Hmmm.....keyboard "shortcuts".........that should tell you something
> right there. Why do you think they are called "shortcuts"? If GUIs
> were so great, why should there even BE keyboard shortcuts? True,
> they are more intuitive than command lines (UNLESS the command help
> is properly included) and they are great for drawing programs, but
> certainly slower to a trained individual. So when you are learning a
> new OS or program, you use the GUI, then when you become more
> proficient, you "graduate" to the keyboard shortcuts, then to the
> command line. (At least that's the way I did it.)
Following your logic, "Hmmm....."GUIs........that should tell you
something right there.... If CLI's are so great, whe should there even
BE a GUI?" Yet 99&44/100ths% of desktops have 'em. I wonder why?
--
Jim Naylor
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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