Linux-Advocacy Digest #242, Volume #27 Wed, 21 Jun 00 22:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: High School is out...here come the trolls...who can't accept the future.
("Robert L.")
Re: The MEDIA this year! (Charlie Ebert)
Re: Dealing with filesystem volumes ("Christopher Smith")
Re: High School is out...here come the trolls...who can't accept the future.
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: How many years for Linux to catch up to NT on the desktop ? (Gary Hallock)
Re: Processing data is bad! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Wintrolls in panic! (Charlie Ebert)
Re: A Better Wintroll Than Wintrolls (was: Re: Desperately Seeking Intelligent
Windows Advocates...)
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux (Gary Hallock)
Re: Windows98
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Robert L." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: High School is out...here come the trolls...who can't accept the future.
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 01:23:39 GMT
No, he is totally right.
0.3 % of user is Linux user.
OS of user that go at www.microsoft.com
60% win98, win95
39% win2k, winNT
0.7% ( other platform)
0.3% Linux.
As you can see, it's at the microsoft website, they get the result.
"Mark S. Bilk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit dans le message news:
8irnuf$pvn$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:57:01 -0400, PowerUser
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >>LINUX IS HERE TO STAY, AND AT THE RATE THAT IT IS GROWING/DEVELOPING,
> >>IT WILL BE THE MAJOR OS OF THE FUTURE.
> >
> >As long as .3 percent of total market share is what you are looking
> >for, I would say you are right on track.
>
> In the business world, Linux market share is probably 30% --
> one hundred times the .3% figure repeatedly posted by our
> resident liar, Steve/Mike/Simon (for which he never gives
> a reference).
>
> By going to this web page, and clicking on the free data
> link, one can access various industry surveys taken as late
> as one year ago -- 2Q99 (more recent ones cost a dollar a
> minute to access):
>
> http://www.infotechtrends.com/freedemo.htm
>
> Thanks to WhyteWolf for posting this one, which you get by
> checking the "web" box:
>
> 99Q2 - Percent of Web servers using each operating system.
>
> Percent of Web servers using each operating system.
>
> Windows NT 26%
> Linux 21%
> Solaris 16%
> BSDI 11%
> SGI (IRIX) 9%
> Free BSD 8%
>
> JOURNAL/SOURCE/TITLE DATE PAGE
> VARBUSINESS/ 12-Apr-99 58 Netcraft/
> *GENERATION LINUX - NIPPING NT's HEELS
>
> So, Linux had almost caught up to Windows NT in web server
> market share a year ago, and the most popular Unix systems
> combined exceeded NT's share by 2.5 to 1 (.65/.26).
>
> But if you instead check the boxes for "software" and
> "systems", you can get this report:
>
> 99Q2 - Percent of information technology managers using
> or planning to use Linux as a general purpose desktop
> or workstation operating system.
>
> Currently Use 10%
> Use Within 12 Months 20%
> No Plans 68%
> Don't Know 1%
>
> JOURNAL/SOURCE/TITLE DATE PAGE
> VARBUSINESS/ 12-Apr-99 54 InformationWeek/
> *GENERATION LINUX - NEXT STOP: DESKTOP
>
> One year ago, when KDE and Gnome, along with hardware and
> installation support, were much less developed than they
> are now, Linux was already in use on the desktop/workstation
> computers of 10% of all businesses. The figure may now
> be 30%, if the managers planning to switch to Linux have
> followed through.
>
> The next LinuxWorld Conference and Expo will be held
> August 14-17 2000, in San Jose, Calif. The last one was
> huge! See hundreds of companies and organizations with
> GNU/Linux/OSS related products. Meet Linus and RMS.
> Pet a real penguin! Register now for free admission to
> the exhibits, Aug. 15-17 (save $25).
>
> http://www.linuxworldexpo.com/
>
>
------------------------------
From: Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The MEDIA this year!
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 01:30:08 GMT
FEE FII FOO FUUMM! I SMELL THE BLOOD OF A WINRAT....
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> No-Spam wrote:
>
> > How can a Wintroll, with a fake name, who never gives sources himself,
> > and quotes the same lame Wintroll lies year after year, question
> > Charlie ?
>
> Isn't Charlie the fellow who swears Windows has no disk cache?
Yes. It doesn't seem to have one. They claim it does, but,,,
nobody's every been able to prove it existed thru testing.
> As most full featured OS's (hardware allowing of course) do
> caching, I'd like to see something a little more convincing than
> Charlie saying so, as the windows I have here seem to be caching
> something. Is there some new spec on what caching is that I've missed?
Well,,,,
Being the scientific person you are,,,,
Reboot your machine then do something you would think would be
cached by the OS. Some disk activity. I won't put any kind of
criteria on it. You could pick some 1 meg file to load into
Excell or you could just do a program start up, or maybe you'd
like to pull my primate's trick of opening a directory with explorer.
Time the even the best you can with your watch.
Then do it again about 5 times, each time recording the time.
What we did in the insurance business was perform some serial
and random read tests on a simple 1 meg file. From the first
read to the 10th run of this test, the time difference
was ZERO. They all took the same time. And, nothing
else was running.
So, where's the cache.
While on the Mandrake test box we set up, there was a timing
difference recorded from the first run thru the 10th.
A noticable cache of the disk WAS observed.
>
> Anyways, who cares who posts what? I look at the post more than
> the poster anyways.
Well, you do for one. Otherwise, why this.
You know. I can never convince a wintroll of anything.
It will never happen. And I don't care. Never have.
The Linux market is currently 35% world wide for servers
and 14% for desktops as of last count. I remember when
Linux only accounted for 3%.
Windows hasn't grown any for 3 years now. Their percentage
hit it's peak in 1998.
In 5 years time, wintroll's won't exist.
>
> > To all concerned, "Steve/Amy/Keys88/Heather/Simon" etc, is a
> unbalanced,
> > or paid Microsoft Wintroll, do yourself a favor, and save some
> valuable time.
> >
> > kill file him
>
> Or better yet, pick an incarnation of his and prove him erroneous.
> Then you can claim spank at any time given commonly accepted usenet
> practices.
This is good advice?
Why on earth would you say this.
Of all the loonacy wintroll's represent, why become one of them.
>
> Off topic, anybody know how to get KDE's window manager to run
> standalone, that somebody with 0 knowledge (me) can manage? One
> of the threads here has my curiousity up now, I'll continue reading,
> but if anybody knows a shortcut, redhat 6.1, ordinary KDE installation
> (?)
As one man has tried to say about 1000 times, KDE isnt' a window
manager.
>
> (On the other hand, I've seen some interesting behavior just renaming
> files randomly :-)
>
> --
> I'm one of those 0 knowledge folks yttrx talks about.
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
I suppose you still believe Windows has a disk cache?
Charlie
------------------------------
From: "Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dealing with filesystem volumes
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:34:09 +1000
"Sam Morris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:Re745.137$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > That's sounds like you should be complaining to 3DFX. I have a TNT,
which
> > IIRC should be in the same ballpark speed-wise and Quake3 was quite
> playable
> > on my machine (I'd throw up some benchmarks, but I don't have it
installed
> > atm).
>
> It's all going to be irrelevant soon anyway - I'm going to get me one of
> them fast Athlon things and a Geforce 2... POWER... :)
I'm personally waiting for the dual Athlon chipsets to a) appear and b)
stabilise, then I'll consider them.
I'll probably get a Powerbook next year, if OSX actually appears, but I'm
not spending money on a Mac until I can get a decent OS for it :).
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: High School is out...here come the trolls...who can't accept the future.
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 01:39:28 GMT
On 22 Jun 2000 00:51:27 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark S. Bilk) wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:57:01 -0400, PowerUser
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>>>LINUX IS HERE TO STAY, AND AT THE RATE THAT IT IS GROWING/DEVELOPING,
>>>IT WILL BE THE MAJOR OS OF THE FUTURE.
>>
>>As long as .3 percent of total market share is what you are looking
>>for, I would say you are right on track.
>
>In the business world, Linux market share is probably 30% --
>one hundred times the .3% figure repeatedly posted by our
>resident liar, Steve/Mike/Simon (for which he never gives
>a reference).
30 PERCENT!!!! ???
What kind of drugs are you on? You'd be hard pressed to find a single
secratary in NYC that is running Linux on her desktop.
Try this:
http://websnapshot.mycomputer.com/systemos.html
Wh
>By going to this web page, and clicking on the free data
>link, one can access various industry surveys taken as late
>as one year ago -- 2Q99 (more recent ones cost a dollar a
>minute to access):
>
>http://www.infotechtrends.com/freedemo.ht
>Thanks to WhyteWolf for posting this one, which you get by
>checking the "web" box:
>
> 99Q2 - Percent of Web servers using each operating system.
Web servers are but a small portion of users out there.
Try:
http://websnapshot.mycomputer.com/systemos.html
> Percent of Web servers using each operating system.
>
> Windows NT 26%
> Linux 21%
> Solaris 16%
> BSDI 11%
> SGI (IRIX) 9%
> Free BSD 8%
>
> JOURNAL/SOURCE/TITLE DATE PAGE
> VARBUSINESS/ 12-Apr-99 58 Netcraft/
> *GENERATION LINUX - NIPPING NT's HEELS
>
>So, Linux had almost caught up to Windows NT in web server
>market share a year ago, and the most popular Unix systems
>combined exceeded NT's share by 2.5 to 1 (.65/.26).
So?
TOTAL MARKET SHARE STILL STINKS!!!
http://websnapshot.mycomputer.com/systemos.html
>But if you instead check the boxes for "software" and
>"systems", you can get this report:
>
> 99Q2 - Percent of information technology managers using
> or planning to use Linux as a general purpose desktop
> or workstation operating system.
>
> Currently Use 10%
> Use Within 12 Months 20%
> No Plans 68%
> Don't Know 1%
>
> JOURNAL/SOURCE/TITLE DATE PAGE
> VARBUSINESS/ 12-Apr-99 54 InformationWeek/
> *GENERATION LINUX - NEXT STOP: DESKTOP
>
>One year ago, when KDE and Gnome, along with hardware and
>installation support, were much less developed than they
>are now, Linux was already in use on the desktop/workstation
>computers of 10% of all businesses. The figure may now
>be 30%, if the managers planning to switch to Linux have
>followed through.
But have they?
http://websnapshot.mycomputer.com/systemos.html
>The next LinuxWorld Conference and Expo will be held
>August 14-17 2000, in San Jose, Calif. The last one was
>huge! See hundreds of companies and organizations with
>GNU/Linux/OSS related products. Meet Linus and RMS.
>Pet a real penguin! Register now for free admission to
>the exhibits, Aug. 15-17 (save $25).
Who cares?
>http://www.linuxworldexpo.com/
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 21:39:17 -0400
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How many years for Linux to catch up to NT on the desktop ?
Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
> Again, another difference. Windows does the web stuff with one process but
> many threads. Linux I assume does it with many process daemons.
>
> >> So because I can run lots of processes, I do and find it very useful. If
> >> I couldn't, then I wouldn't (obviously).
>
> Well, what Linux does in multiple processes, Windows does in less but using
> threads.
>
> --
> ------------
> Pete Goodwin
You have, without realizing it, admitted how terribly slow Windows can be.
Windows apps avoid multiple processes because Windows processes are extremely
heavy and slow. The only way to achieve decent performance is with threads.
But that can lead to instability due to all those threads being able to
overwrite each others storage. This is precisely what I said before, but
you chose to ignore.
Gary
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Processing data is bad!
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 01:41:13 GMT
On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:58:32 -0400, Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 21:14:34 -0400, Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Yea but Windows GUI looks and works well.
>> >
>> >You've obviously never used X11
>>
>> Sure have and it looks like shit and is slow as shit.
>>
>> This applies to both Intel platforms and RS 6000 platforms.
>
>
>RS 6000 is shit.
>>
>> it makes my eyes tear.....
>
>Obviously you're running on lousy graphics hardware.
Matrox G400 isn't lousy..
X11 is lousy....
Linux gui looks like crap....
>
>>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 18:43:05 -0400, Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> There is a reason why the rest of the world has moved mostly to GUI.
>> >> >
>> >> >Unix has had a GUI since, oh... 1983 or so... that makes 17 years.
>> >> >
>> >> >By comparison..windows is.. what... 10 years old?
------------------------------
From: Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Wintrolls in panic!
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 01:45:27 GMT
Aren't these Wintroll's just fantastic to study!
Here's a group of people who are supporting an
operating system made by a corporation. A
corporation who's appearently broken so many laws
that they very being is on the block as we speak.
At best, Microsoft will be split up into 2 peices
and at worse it will be 3 peices.
The Judge actually made public comment be believed
splitting Microsoft into 3 peices was necessary!
Then we have the Wintroll's leader, Bill Gates!
Bill Gates is the man who founded Microsoft.
A person of incredible wealth and power.
Confidence is on Bill's side! He has all the
chips!
Bill resignes from his OWN COMPANY!
NOW,,,
We don't even have to discuss bluescreenin Microsoft
OS's.
We don't even need to discuss the eventual demise of
Microsoft by the Linux community.
Both points are equally VALID.
But I really, really would like to know what makes
a wintroll a wintroll!
Why do they STILL insist on touting Microsoft!
What could possibly keep a person going on the Microsoft
bandwagon? What could it be?
Every magazine in the country, URGING corporations to
consider making a move to Linux this year!
A Federal Judge fixing to bust up the company!
Bill Gates resigning as the CEO of his own company!
The company he started with his own hands!
HA. HAHA... I mean really!
Don't you all see the humor in this...
It's really an incredibly funny story we see here
every night.
IT's like some sci-fi movie! "DAWN OF THE LOONATICS"....
Scene #1. Average American reloading Windows for the 5th
time tonight see's the sunrise and begin's to eat people
off the street!
HA HA>... I mean what keeps these koo-koo's going anyway!!!
HA HA... I mean I started pasting Simon777 messages together
last night and wet my pants laughing at the man....
He's so fucking funny to read, I can just image what he looks
like. HA HA... He crack's!!!! HA HA HA HA.....
I'm doing it again so I have to stop now.... HA HA HA....
HA HA HA HA....
I'm going to piss...
HA HA HA HA....
Charlie
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Better Wintroll Than Wintrolls (was: Re: Desperately Seeking
Intelligent Windows Advocates...)
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 01:46:50 GMT
On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:57:58 -0400, Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On 20 Jun 2000 04:31:49 GMT, "Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>If I had more time I'd try myself just for the heck of it.
Either that or else he actually has a life. This sort of condition
makes Linux quite handy as one doesn't have to waste time cleaning
up after it (WinDOS).
>
>Priceless...
>
>I guess that stack of man pages and how-to files really does add up
>after a while.
>
>"Time is money but space is a long, long time" - Frank Zappa
--
If you know what you want done, it is quite often more useful to
tell the machine what you want it to do rather than merely having
the machine tell you what you are allowed to do.
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 01:48:29 GMT
On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:37:36 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On 21 Jun 2000 18:51:43 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>>> What other security is there besides XHost +hostname for limiting who
>>>>> can redirect your X server or plug into your X server?
>>>>
>>>>There are three direct authentication systems: xhost, cookies, and
>>>>Kerberos.
>>>>Indirect protection could be developed through the use of a VPN, or for
>>>>those on a budget, SSL.
>>>
>>>Wouldn't it be wonderful if this was easier to set up? Terminal
>>>Server is a breeze - just install it, and you're then done. Why can't
>>>Linux be this easy?
>>
>>Errr, it is. You just install ssh if you don't already have it
>>installed and it takes care of the xauthority setup and X
>>redirection for you when you use it for remote connection. And
>>of course if you are doing something remotely over a
>>low bandwidth connection that can be done in character mode
>>you don't need to bother with the GUI at all.
>
>There's nothing easy about it.
Bullshit. It's the default configuration of ssh. What takes
a clue is figuring how NOT to have that X redirection pipe
active.
--
If you know what you want done, it is quite often more useful to
tell the machine what you want it to do rather than merely having
the machine tell you what you are allowed to do.
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 21:51:35 -0400
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux
Tim Palmer wrote:
>
>
> It upgraids your DLLs for you instead of printing "dependensy error".
>
And makes other programs unusable.
Hey Tim, Did you ever figure out how Linux for S/390 works. Are you ready to admit
you were dead wrong?
Gary
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Windows98
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 01:52:42 GMT
On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:07:30 -0400, Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 08:42:16 -0500, Tim Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>
>>David Cancio wrote:
[deletia]
>>constantly being asked stupid questions by the os, and having my
>>personal information sent out over the internet by half a dozen
>>crapware programs? I don't use windows for the same reasons I
>>don't spend all my time with with car salesmen, or stick my face
>>in a toilet. I find it very unpleasant.
>
>Did you ever consider some people don't like spending HOURS trying to
>get simple things in Linux to work the way they want them too? I've
>never had to reinstall Win2k. NT is the future of consumer Windows.
Did you ever consider some people don't like spending HOURS
trying to clean up after WinDOS fucks up something simple?
[deletia]
As far as NT being the 'future' Microsoft desktop goes: Did you
ever consider that some people don't want to wait YEARS for
Microsoft to get off it's lazy ass and finally deliver a Modern
consumer OS that fully exploits the current 15 year old Intel
CPU architecture.
--
If you know what you want done, it is quite often more useful to
tell the machine what you want it to do rather than merely having
the machine tell you what you are allowed to do.
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
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