Linux-Advocacy Digest #326, Volume #27 Sun, 25 Jun 00 14:13:09 EDT
Contents:
Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh (Darren Winsper)
Re: Lost Cause Theater!!! (Darren Winsper)
Re: Lost Cause Theater!!! (Darren Winsper)
Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh (Darren Winsper)
Re: Haakmat digest, volume 2451706 (J.M. Althoff)
Re: iMac: the iTelligent Choice (Stuart Krivis)
Re: Claims of Windows supporting old applications are reflecting reality or fantasy?
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: The Linux Challenge (Alan Boyd)
Re: [JOB] Debian installer needed near Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh (MK)
Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh (MK)
Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh (MK)
Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh (MK)
Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh (MK)
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft Ruling
Too Harsh (MK)
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft Ruling
Too Harsh (MK)
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft Ruling
Too Harsh (MK)
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft Ruling
Too Harsh (MK)
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft Ruling
Too Harsh (MK)
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft Ruling
Too Harsh (MK)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Darren Winsper)
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics
Subject: Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh
Date: 25 Jun 2000 15:48:01 GMT
On Sun, 25 Jun 2000 08:14:42 GMT, MK
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 24 Jun 2000 08:21:44 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (Darren Winsper) wrote:
>
> >On 23 Jun 2000 14:44:55 GMT, Henry Blaskowski
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Do you even understand how business works? Microsoft said, if you
> >> want our product at a discount, you have to agree to sell a copy
> >> with every machine you sell. You are free to buy it at full price,
> >> or you can get it at a discount with conditions. My grocery store
> >> does a similar thing to me all the time, but you don't hear anyone
> >> running around crying "monopoly".
> >
> >Does your grocery store have 90% of the grocery market?
>
> Do you know what market share does YOUR grocery have?
No, but I know it is not more than 25% of the UK market.
> Do you care?
Actually, yes. You see, in my local area, there is *one* supermarket.
In order to go to another, I have to drive to a different town.
Because of this, my local supermarket can get away with being crap and
overpriced, kind of like Microsoft.
> Does it matter to you when you consider whether
> particular products fit your taste?
Yes. There's nothing wrong with what my local supermarket sells, it's
the stuff they don't sell and the fact that they have rediculous
prices on what they do sell.
> Do you think other customers care?
Yes. I hear lots of people complaining for another supermarket.
> Do you think that if that grocery store had 90% of grocery market and it pissed
> its customers off, they would not migrate to those having remaining 10%?
They might, but that could mean traveling for an hour to the closest
competition. Do you fancy doing that each time you want to buy your
groceries?
--
Darren Winsper (El Capitano) - ICQ #8899775
Stellar Legacy project member - http://www.stellarlegacy.tsx.org
DVD boycotts. Are you doing your bit?
This message was typed before a live studio audience.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Darren Winsper)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.admin.networking,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Lost Cause Theater!!!
Date: 25 Jun 2000 15:48:03 GMT
On Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:45:04 GMT, Oscar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's simple logic. The simpler something is, the more stable it is.
> As Linux moves on to support more apps, platforms and stupid users,
> Linux will become less stable. I promise you that.
I can sit any clueless newbie/moron in front of my machine and they
will not be able to kill it.
> Note to Linux dudes out there: Remember Macintosh, Amiga, and OS/2?
> Lots of people thought/knew that those products were better. They got
> cocky and lost to Billy boy. Also I don't sub the linux forum, I
> caught this on an NT support forum, if ya wanna flame me, email me.
Apple refused to open up the hardware platform and were overpriced.
Linux is open. Commodore stood still and were overtaken. Linux is
advancing at a frightening pace. IBM failed to market OS/2 well enough
and overpriced it IIRC. Linux is gaining market share despite the lack
of marketing and is free or cheap, depending on where you get it from.
--
Darren Winsper (El Capitano) - ICQ #8899775
Stellar Legacy project member - http://www.stellarlegacy.tsx.org
DVD boycotts. Are you doing your bit?
This message was typed before a live studio audience.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Darren Winsper)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.admin.networking,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Lost Cause Theater!!!
Date: 25 Jun 2000 15:48:06 GMT
On Sun, 25 Jun 2000 07:30:51 GMT, Cihl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I wouldn't crosspost this message too much, if i were you. You just
> managed to insult about 2/3 of the world population with 3 lines of
> text. (Doesn't include me, but it's worrying nonetheless)
They didn't seem to be particually bothered at high school when they
forced me to pray to a God I didn't believe in during assemblies.
--
Darren Winsper (El Capitano) - ICQ #8899775
Stellar Legacy project member - http://www.stellarlegacy.tsx.org
DVD boycotts. Are you doing your bit?
This message was typed before a live studio audience.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Darren Winsper)
Crossposted-To:
misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh
Date: 25 Jun 2000 15:48:11 GMT
On 23 Jun 2000 18:21:08 GMT, Henry Blaskowski
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If I want to sell certain
> unapproved pharmaceuticals, that is nobody's business but mine
> and the person I made the agreement with.
Not always. Does the term passive smoking mean anything to you?
--
Darren Winsper (El Capitano) - ICQ #8899775
Stellar Legacy project member - http://www.stellarlegacy.tsx.org
DVD boycotts. Are you doing your bit?
This message was typed before a live studio audience.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (J.M. Althoff)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Haakmat digest, volume 2451706
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 15:48:50 GMT
>zo zo, lekker gesprekje!!!
>
>Pascal Haakmat wrote:
This message is off-topic on nl.scouting. When you must reply
please note where you send the message off to..
Groetjes / Greetings,
Matthijs
Kabouter leiding Cycloongroep Borculo
e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cycloongroep : http://users.scoutnet.nl/~cycloon
kabouters : http://users.scoutnet.nl/~cycloon/dutch/kabouter
note : verwijder -bambilie- voor mijn juiste e-mail adres.
reageer niet met reply, berichten aan dit adres worden
door de front-end mailer verwijderds ter voorkoming van spam.
==============================================
Voorstel FAQ nl.scouting ter inzage op :
http://www.bromberg.demon.nl/nl.scouting
==============================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stuart Krivis)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: iMac: the iTelligent Choice
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 10:53:33 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 18:52:11 +1200, Lawrence DčOliveiro
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>X is definitely extreme--if you thought games ran slowly under NT, you
>should try them under X. It's too complex, too unwieldy and too
>resource-hungry to make for a good game platform.
>
>Trouble is, the UNIX folks think this is a virtue. Try to suggest to
>them that the graphics engine should be integrated into the kernel for
>efficiency, and you can see their brains just switching off.
I haven't noticed that the high-end Sun and SGI machines have the "graphics
engine" integrated into the kernel. Maybe you need to tell them so that they
can actually sell their stuff to 3D graphics designers. Oh, wait... Sun and
SGI already sell plenty of graphics workstations.
--
Stuart Krivis
*** Remove "mongo" in headers for valid reply hostname
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Claims of Windows supporting old applications are reflecting reality or
fantasy?
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 16:26:04 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:04:14 GMT,
> John Wiltshire, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> brought forth the following words...:
>
> >Sure, but you also lose all that functionality that is present in
> >Windows. Ever tried embedding a spreadsheet in a document by
dragging
> >and dropping without something like Gnome or KDE?
> >
> >John Wiltshire
> >
>
> Sure, use Siag, you can also embed a netscape navigator in your
spreadsheet,
> or an xterm, or pretty much any program you want.
To be honest, embedding by dragging and dropping is not currently
possible. I haven't implemented that functionality because it doesn't
seem like something I'd like to do.
Anybody want that feature? It is a trivial hack, and I'll add it
tomorrow if somebody asks for it.
Ulric
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Alan Boyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Linux Challenge
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 11:42:52 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Of course their sales increased. If YOU had that much money invested
> in hardware and the OS was abandoned you would consider ANY OS just to
> make the damm thing run.
Your post makes it sound like they sell Linux and their sales increased
when NT support for the Alpha was dropped. That would make sense.
However, API manufactures the hardware.
http://www.alpha-processor.com/corporate/index.shtml
As exclusive licensees of the Alpha 64-bit technology, API
is building the next generation of Alpha processors --
including the Alpha 21264-750, today's fastest
commercially-available 64-bit processor, and the
soon-to-be-released Alpha 21264-1000, the first processor
ever clocked at 1GHz at room temperature.
Support for NT on the Alpha was dropped and their sales of hardware
increased. I don't think they are necessarily related. I think Alpha's
are just getting more popular.
--
"I don't believe in anti-anything. A man has to have a
program; you have to be *for* something, otherwise you
will never get anywhere." -- Harry S Truman
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: [JOB] Debian installer needed near Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 10:00:09 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
This employment offer that you present lacks credibility.
A few reasons for this opinion are:
You use of the term "peecee" for the common computer term "PC" (Personal
Computer) this may be the result of lack of experince in the computer field,
OR you are attempting to present yourself as different persona then your
true identity.
There is a Hollywood, Florida near Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, your wording of
the locations makes it seem as though you are trying to appear less familiar
with the area than you in fact may be.
Then there is the ISP factor. Someone with a less than critical eye may
read your offer and think that you are located in Florida. However, I
believe you are located in the New York state in or near New York City.
Your email address is from Netmonger Communications, which is a small ISP
based in Bellmore NewYork. Netmonger Communications is so small or starved
for resources that it not able to provide a second authortive DNS server on
its own hosts. It's second authoritive DNS server is a DNS server run on a
host of Telecon Communications/Superior Net. Telecon Communications/Superior
Net is another ISP based in New York, in this case Johnstown New York.
However, you didn't connect to the internet through either of those ISP's.
Your connection was established through a third ISP located in New York
City, by the name of PANIX Public Access Networks Corporation. This ISP has
local dialup numbers for New York City, some other areas in New York outside
of New York City, and some area of New Jersey as well.
Your offer specifies Debian for your Linux distribution, you have
crossposted your offer into three Linux newsgroups but into none of the
debian specific newsgroups. Also since you are seeking professional and/or
expert support, there are newsgroups where you can advertise for the
services of computer consultants, you also did not crosspost into those
newsgroups either.
There is one more thing that can cause someone to doubt your offer's
credibility. This offer of yours is the only usenet newsgroup posting you
have made to date with this identity. This makes it appear that you may
have just created this on-line identity of [EMAIL PROTECTED] for the purpose
to make this one offer, perhaps for some ulterior motive.
These are some of the reasons that I find your offer to not be credible.
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:8j4e4c$q2k$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> We have need of a person who can install Debian on an IBM Aptiva peecee.
> This is a one shot install. The peecee is in a place called something
like
> "Hollywood", which is near Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Old News Reader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (MK)
Crossposted-To:
misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:15:45 GMT
On 25 Jun 2000 00:02:49 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Loren Petrich) wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>MK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>IOW, if the business says "we'll give you price $50 under such conditions
>>and $100 under other conditions" is fraud and the same business saying
>>"we'll give you price $100 under such conditions and $50 under other
>>conditions" is discount.
> Grow up. Look at the *kinds* of discounts given.
Imbecile.
MK
---
Involuntary redistribution is theft in coating of hypocrisy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (MK)
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics
Subject: Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:15:50 GMT
On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 22:17:56 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
>>>Yes, if there are other products using monopoly force to demand
>>>bundling with outher products whether it is wanted or not, of
>>>course they should be prosecuted.
>>
>>This argument can't stand the skeptical examination -- if enough
>>people wanted to buy unbundled products, the market for
>>them would certainly be created.
> This is once again quite circular argumentation as
> people have to be able to deal with the current
> network effects present in the marketplace.
This once again is circular argument about network effects -- network
effects are there bc you claim that network effects are there. Economists
working on network effects _deny_ there were network effects here.
MK
---
Involuntary redistribution is theft in coating of hypocrisy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (MK)
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics
Subject: Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:15:51 GMT
On 25 Jun 2000 08:29:37 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Loren Petrich) wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>MK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>Do you think that if that grocery store had 90% of grocery market and it pissed
>>its customers off, they would not migrate to those having remaining 10%?
>
> However, much of the software market does not have this wonderful
>interchangeability.
However, it does not have _prohibitive_ interchangeability -- otherwise
no swapping of OSes and applications whatsoever would happen (examples
were cited, VMS, CP/M, Wordstar, 1-2-3, etc.)
MK
---
Involuntary redistribution is theft in coating of hypocrisy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (MK)
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics
Subject: Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:15:49 GMT
On 25 Jun 2000 00:07:00 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Loren Petrich) wrote:
>>> That presumes easy switching and no attempts to interfere with
>>>distribution channels by Goliath, etc. Capitalist "libertarianism"
>>>features extremely crude and often unrealistic economic models.
>
>>Reading even just a few excerpts from good book like "The Methodology of
>>Economics" in context of LP's statement can easily demonstrate to interested
>>reader that LP is a lunatic.
> Crude Panglossianism is hardly what I'd call sober science.
Petrich is like retard calling Einstein a retard -- anybody can verify
that by reading the book in question.
MK
---
Involuntary redistribution is theft in coating of hypocrisy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (MK)
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics
Subject: Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:22:35 GMT
On 25 Jun 2000 01:16:41 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Loren Petrich) wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>MK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>On Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:47:41 -0500, Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>wrote:
>
>>>MK wrote:
>>>>[A bunch of stuff about how great Microsoft is.]
>>>So I'm curious. Does MK stand for Microsoft Klingon?
>>Ad hominem instead of response based on merit is the last
>>resort of loser.
>
> "Microsoft Klingon" is funny!!!!!
Petrich reveals immaturity.
>
> But if I was in his place, I'd ask how much money I was making
>off of M$ as a result of my effusive praise of it.
None. And to respond to your predictable objection, fuck you and whether you
believe that or not.
I could very well ask how much money you get from Sun or Novell -- but
I really don't think they would want to pay the retard you are.
MK
---
Involuntary redistribution is theft in coating of hypocrisy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (MK)
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft
Ruling Too Harsh
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:22:53 GMT
On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 22:20:35 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
>>>>Don't be silly. You are the one who wishes to use the armed agents
>>>>of the federal government to interfere in a voluntary consensual
>>>>contract.
>>
>>>The "voluntary, consensual" contracts have already been discussed. We
>>> do not believe that they are substantially more voluntary and consensual
>>> than anal rape at gun point.
>>
>>That's sheer lunacy to compare rape to things like "per-processor"
>>license.
>
> It rather makes sense actually.
It makes no sense -- rape is infringement on negative rights, the license
is _granting_ positive rights.
> Either you struggle and risk getting the suffing knocked out
> of you or KILLED or else people such as yourself would most
> certainly not take any subsequent accustations seriously.
You're either insane or you pretend to be. Either way, you're not
making serious arguments, only playing games of poetic flights
of imagination.
MK
---
Involuntary redistribution is theft in coating of hypocrisy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (MK)
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft
Ruling Too Harsh
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:22:55 GMT
On 25 Jun 2000 00:45:40 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Loren Petrich) wrote:
>
> I don't know where Mr. MK gets his absurd Panglossian fantasies
>from; I'm sure that if he was kidnapped and enslaved, he'd worship his
>master as someone who sees him as very valuable.
Petrich is actually obsessive freak unable to argue in way
other than snipping, ripping, obsessing and restating the
same argument over and over again -- now we see
the obsessive phase.
MK
---
Involuntary redistribution is theft in coating of hypocrisy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (MK)
Crossposted-To:
misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft
Ruling Too Harsh
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:22:59 GMT
On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 22:23:27 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
>>processor license", I doubt if anybody would be willing to take it -- it is
>>reasonable to assume that hardware vendor chose what suits his interests
>>best. If selling machines with preinstalled Linux served his interests best,
>>he would sell such machines. It is inane to assume that he would not, given
>>what people are willing to do for a buck.
>>> This is a common feature of so-called libertarians.
>>
>>Actually, it's evident you just HATE MS and thus you adapt all the arguments to
>>serve that purpose.
> Nope. I actually have in general a stronger personal standard for
> what consitutes contracting under duress. I have also expressed this
> in terms of "voluntary" labor 'contracts'.
You only have hypocritical personal standards serving protecting your
particular monopoly.
> My life hasn't been quite as sheltered as yours. I've seen how the
> working stiffs that make up the majority of the labor market live
> and work.
Well, it just so happens that I lived and worked precisely that way -- and
worse, bc I worked illegal. On farms, construction sites, restaurant and
the like. Full underground, nothing legal. No working permit, no
insurance, nothing. Cash from hand to hand -- about a third of legal
wage. Renting a single bed in a shared apartment for a quarter of average
earnings.
So pardon my French, but it's driving me fucking crazy when I see
all those "liberals at heart" born in affluent families crying over workers and
looking at me as if I were some sort of monster bc they want to "help workers"
by providing this or that free and that free and "public education"
and "public housing" and protecting workers by laws and labor unions while in
reality it is getting the only real monopoly that is there -- govt granted
monopoly.
The "public housing" is like that: the guy in London gets apartment for free
from city council, and then he rents beds to illegal workers, 30 British
pounds per bed a week (want some phones and addresses? I still have them).
I don't hold it against such people. They're actually selling a good service.
Morons believeing in redistribution and politicians are at fault for what's
wrong with that scheme.
They achieve three goals:
-- they convince themselves and others that they are sooo goood (hypocrisy)
-- they get cheap services and products (underground economies pay little)
-- they achieve political control over monopolies in their economies
Three birds with one shot.
Sometimes I feel this urge to shoot all those "good-hearted" liberals taxing
people for "their own good". It would be like heavens. However, I think
with time education, Internet, etc. will make such people understand fallacies
of socialdemocracy and socialism (I did, after all). Maybe they'll get the guns
and I will see the (quasi) liberals being lynched.
MK
---
Involuntary redistribution is theft in coating of hypocrisy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (MK)
Crossposted-To: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft
Ruling Too Harsh
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:23:02 GMT
On 25 Jun 2000 01:05:27 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Loren Petrich) wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>MK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>At 02:35 00-06-24 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>The test is simple: do I get my negative rights (life, liberty, property)
>>infringed on or not?
> M$, with its cliff-pricing tactics, was trying to infringe on the
>liberties of others.
I conclude that having Windows is human right, isn't it?
>>Also, quitting the job would also have to be classified as coercion -- you're
>>violating the right of employer to buy your work, don't you? Isn't
>>threatening to quit the job coercion using such logic?
> Given whose side that "libertarians" normally take (the employers'
>side, of course), I'm sure they'd strongly support this argument, on the
>ground that one ought not to bite the hand that one gets fed by. Consider
>how they idolize John Galt, rather than any of his underlings in Ayn
>Rand's novels.
Consider that every movement has its favorite persons, real or literary
ones.
MK
---
Involuntary redistribution is theft in coating of hypocrisy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (MK)
Crossposted-To:
misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft
Ruling Too Harsh
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:23:00 GMT
On 25 Jun 2000 03:05:28 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi) wrote:
>>Except that we don't -- MS did not use force by using "per processor license"
>>bc it was voluntarily signed by vendors. If MS gave $1 discount in "per
>
>We disagree with your use of the word "voluntary". I still call it
>coercion, and have explained why. You might not agree with me, but
>then you don't seem opposed to corporate bullying in any context so I
>don't think you will ever be convinced otherwise.
Convince. There's nothing here to be "convinced" about, it's about
understanding the issue. I think you're just not used to smell of ugly
negotiations. I think I saw more of them, so I am not that oversensitive and I
think I can see the difference between coercion and using your position to
press the other side to get what one wants. It's obvious that MS has a very
powerful position in negotiations. Nevertheless, it's still not coercion.
That's just threatening to revoke _positive right_. I have been subject
to ugly threats of revoking positive rights, like firing me when I objected to
something while I worked illegal, so I obviously could not go to court or
govt agency if I thought it was unfair.
In reality, there are only your needs and having what the other side needs and
vice versa. Every single sale is based on threat of not granting privilege for
something that satisfies your need, and the "differences in bargaining
positions" that make one negotiation "coercion" and the other not are entirely
arbitrary. There is no fundamental difference between threat by MS of not
granting license and getting some product where the customer has better
position, e.g. selling you a pencil. It's just MS has better bargaining
position and pencil salesman has worse bargaining position.
Both MS and pencil salesman could coerce you -- but in practice, neither can
_coerce_ you in way other than forceful depriving you of all other
alternatives. If MS did not burn Linux vendors and blackmail BeOS makers, it's
not coercion. Those are still negotiations -- harsh, but negotiations.
MK
---
Involuntary redistribution is theft in coating of hypocrisy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (MK)
Crossposted-To: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft
Ruling Too Harsh
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:23:01 GMT
On 24 Jun 2000 14:29:57 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell) wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>MK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>>The problem is that Microsoft are not "subsidizing" anyone. They are not
>>>*bribing* the OEMs, they are blackmailing them.
>>
>>How? By threatening to _revoke a discount_?
>Which of the vendor depositions explained the threats in
>those terms?
Is the nature of that threat different?
MK
---
Involuntary redistribution is theft in coating of hypocrisy.
------------------------------
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