Linux-Advocacy Digest #39, Volume #28 Thu, 27 Jul 00 19:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows? ("Drestin Black")
Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows? ("Drestin Black")
Re: Yeah! Bring down da' man!
Re: Tinman digest, volume 2451736 (Tholen) (Marty)
Re: Yeah! Bring down da' man! (Jim)
Re: Yeah! Bring down da' man!
Re: Speaking of Basic....
Re: Advocacy and Programmers... (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (josco)
Re: BASIC == Beginners language (Was: Just curious.... (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows? ("Drestin Black")
Re: Gnome or KDE (Doc Shipley)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (josco)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (josco)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (josco)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?
Date: 27 Jul 2000 17:25:10 -0500
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Drestin Black wrote:
> >
> > "sandrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Drestin Black wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "T. Max Devlin" wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Said Aaron R. Kulkis in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> > > > > > [...]
> > > > > > >You can't even be bothered to test a simple 10-line program,
and
> > > > > > >yet, you expect us to believe your other exhortations?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Come now, we're not nearly as stupid as you, punk.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well, that's true, but he was providing a quick-and-dirty
example of
> > a
> > > > > > concept, and his code illustrated the solution. He might be
stupid
> > (and
> > > > > > I'm anxious to learn more either way), but he is merely a
"punk", at
> > > > > > best, for not actually testing the scratch-code he was using for
a
> > > > > > simple example. I'd like to hear a more telling argument
> > confronting
> > > > > > his other exhortations, if you've got one.
> > > > >
> > > > > More to the point, he thinks that string-variables are an
appropriate
> > > > > solution for binary data.
> > > >
> > > > No, I just did it cause it was quick and dirty but you constantly
ignore
> > > > that. Fine.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Strings are assumed to terminate at any byte that is all 00's.
> > > >
> > > > Wrong. You are wrong. Ahhh mr programmer man, you are so limited in
your
> > > > knowledge and skills and it shows. Basic is not hampered by zero
> > > > termination. I can include ascii 0 values in my strings all I want,
> > > > anywhere, without any ill effect. You'd know that if you were a real
> > > > programmer...
> > > >
> > >
> > > Are you talking about \0 = nil or "0" which is 0x30. There`s a large
> > > difference.
> > > the former is a nil and the latter an ascii "0". The nil is a
> > > non-displayable
> > > character how does that hamper the C language? You sir know nothing
> > > about
> > > programming in C. What you have shown is that you use and are
> > > comfortable using
> > > a script "kiddy language". I would not embarrass myself with such a
> > > language.
> > > Learn how to program and USE a REAL programming language!
> > >
> > > Another luser, running a luser os, scripting with a luser language =
> > > microsoft.
> >
> > another complete fucking idiot trying to sound smart.
> >
> > Dude, ascii 0, zero, as in not the letter O you silly wanker. Yes, I
friggin
> > well know the difference and you are a complete moron for even
considering
> > otherwise. If you had even a remote clue about programming in BASIC
you'd
> > know exactly how much effect putting a ascii zero anywhere in a BASIC
string
> > has: Fuck All! as in nothing, nada, zilch zero. Good - I hate elitist
types
> > who think that cause they struggle to produce something in C that that
makes
> > them superiour to us cranking out useful working code in VB in 1/4 the
time.
> > Give me a break... Embarrass yourself? How about learning the basics of
> > basic before pretending to give any lessons - you only expose you
stupidity
> > and ignorance.
>
> Does Delphi know that you are a retard?
hahahha - without anything even remotely intelligent to reply, without a
single defense, he resorts to personal insults... give me a break, you don't
deserve my dogs leftovers.
------------------------------
From: "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?
Date: 27 Jul 2000 17:27:04 -0500
"sandrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Drestin Black wrote:
> >
> > "sandrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Drestin Black wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "T. Max Devlin" wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Said Aaron R. Kulkis in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> > > > > > [...]
> > > > > > >You can't even be bothered to test a simple 10-line program,
and
> > > > > > >yet, you expect us to believe your other exhortations?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Come now, we're not nearly as stupid as you, punk.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well, that's true, but he was providing a quick-and-dirty
example of
> > a
> > > > > > concept, and his code illustrated the solution. He might be
stupid
> > (and
> > > > > > I'm anxious to learn more either way), but he is merely a
"punk", at
> > > > > > best, for not actually testing the scratch-code he was using for
a
> > > > > > simple example. I'd like to hear a more telling argument
> > confronting
> > > > > > his other exhortations, if you've got one.
> > > > >
> > > > > More to the point, he thinks that string-variables are an
appropriate
> > > > > solution for binary data.
> > > >
> > > > No, I just did it cause it was quick and dirty but you constantly
ignore
> > > > that. Fine.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Strings are assumed to terminate at any byte that is all 00's.
> > > >
> > > > Wrong. You are wrong. Ahhh mr programmer man, you are so limited in
your
> > > > knowledge and skills and it shows. Basic is not hampered by zero
> > > > termination. I can include ascii 0 values in my strings all I want,
> > > > anywhere, without any ill effect. You'd know that if you were a real
> > > > programmer...
> > > >
> > >
> > > Are you talking about \0 = nil or "0" which is 0x30. There`s a large
> > > difference.
> > > the former is a nil and the latter an ascii "0". The nil is a
> > > non-displayable
> > > character how does that hamper the C language? You sir know nothing
> > > about
> > > programming in C. What you have shown is that you use and are
> > > comfortable using
> > > a script "kiddy language". I would not embarrass myself with such a
> > > language.
> > > Learn how to program and USE a REAL programming language!
> > >
> > > Another luser, running a luser os, scripting with a luser language =
> > > microsoft.
> >
> > another complete fucking idiot trying to sound smart.
> >
> > Dude, ascii 0, zero, as in not the letter O you silly wanker. Yes, I
friggin
> > well know the difference and you are a complete moron for even
considering
> > otherwise. If you had even a remote clue about programming in BASIC
you'd
> > know exactly how much effect putting a ascii zero anywhere in a BASIC
string
> > has: Fuck All! as in nothing, nada, zilch zero. Good - I hate elitist
types
> > who think that cause they struggle to produce something in C that that
makes
> > them superiour to us cranking out useful working code in VB in 1/4 the
time.
> > Give me a break... Embarrass yourself? How about learning the basics of
> > basic before pretending to give any lessons - you only expose you
stupidity
> > and ignorance.
>
> You are the moron, You are attempting to talk about asciiz string.
> a asciit 0 is NOT an O it is a zero with a hex value of 30. An ascii
> nil
> which is a hex value 0 (not O damn it) will terminate a string. It
> farted up
> basic string when I was using a technique called string packing (this
> was
> using GeeWiz-BASIC. You probally don`t know what string packing is.
No, you are the moron. I said it right. I know what a ascii zero terminated
string is and I know the fucking differnece between an "O" (letter O) and
"0" (digit 0) - and I know which are hex 30 and 0 -- idiot. Are you that
confused? READ what I WROTE before embaressing yourself. I wrote accurately
but you didn't read it right. idiot...
AND, you CAN put a ascii value 0 (hex value 00) in the middle of a basic
string and it will NOT terminate the string.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Yeah! Bring down da' man!
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:28:14 GMT
On Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:01:02 GMT, Chris Wenham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] () writes:
>
>> > I think there are enough computer users who have learned the
>> > "familiar" and are ready to test the benefits of something that may
>> > not necessarily be familiar but may still be better once learned.
>>
>> I think you overestimate that considerably.
>
> I think there are /enough/. The people who can't program VCRs can
OTOH, quite a bit of 'enough' have been happily using MacOS
derivative interfaces for 15 years now and don't see any more
point to diversity for it's own sake any more than the Dreamcast
crowd does.
[deletia]
--
Unless you've got the engineering process to match a DEC,
you won't produce a VMS.
You'll just end up with the likes of NT.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Tinman digest, volume 2451736 (Tholen)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:22:16 GMT
tholenbot wrote:
>
> > >> > tholenbot only has one identity, Slava.
> > >>
> > >> Incorrect, Eric.
> > >
> > > Prove it.
> >
> > Identity #1 - tholenbot
> > Identity #2 - Eric Bennett
>
> Eric Bennett is not an identity of the tholenbot, Slava. Hava you ever
> seen the tholenbot post as Eric Bennett? No. Only the reverse occurs.
Incorrect. No one but tholenbot posts as tholenbot, just as Batman recites
Batman's lines in the Batman movie, "Batman".
> Of course, it takes decent reading comprehension skills to recognize
> that fact.
How ironic, coming from someone who failed to comprehend the facts.
> > I wonder how Joe Malloy would react to the news that you've been
> > making allegations about him giving "posting lessons", Eric.
>
> Strolling down irrelevancy lane again, Slava?
Frankly, I don't care.
------------------------------
From: Jim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Yeah! Bring down da' man!
Date: 27 Jul 2000 18:31:33 EDT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Karel Jansens
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
>
> > >
> > >The whole concept of trying to immitate Win32 on a Unix platform was
> > >unappealing at best.
> >
> > What kind of crack are you on?
> >
> > It's Win32 that immitates X/Motif. (along with OS/2, Next and
> > MacOS)
> >
> Was X around before MacOS and Windows 286/386?
> [this is a real question]
I seem to remember going to a DEC seminar on X in '87 or so when they
were still riding high. That would make it somewhere around the '286
era, I think.
>
> > If fvwm2 can manage to look 'too much like windows', it's due
> > to fvmw2's inherent flexbility and the truth regarding who is
> > stealing widgets from whom.
> >
> You know, the sentence above somehow manages to parse that Microsoft
> copied fvwm2 into their user interface...
--
Jim Naylor
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Yeah! Bring down da' man!
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:32:18 GMT
On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:31:27 +0200, Karel Jansens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>
>> >
>> >The whole concept of trying to immitate Win32 on a Unix platform was
>> >unappealing at best.
>>
>> What kind of crack are you on?
>>
>> It's Win32 that immitates X/Motif. (along with OS/2, Next and MacOS)
>>
>Was X around before MacOS and Windows 286/386?
>[this is a real question]
X was concurrent to MacOS.
The first reasonably competitive versions of Windows lag
behind MacOS, X, GEM and nearly everything else by several
years.
>
>> If fvwm2 can manage to look 'too much like windows', it's due
>> to fvmw2's inherent flexbility and the truth regarding who is
>> stealing widgets from whom.
>>
>You know, the sentence above somehow manages to parse that Microsoft
>copied fvwm2 into their user interface...
This is why I liked Win95 originally. It resembled both X
and MacOS in ways that appealed to me and it was a welcome
improvement on Program Manager & Fileman.
--
Unless you've got the engineering process to match a DEC,
you won't produce a VMS.
You'll just end up with the likes of NT.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Speaking of Basic....
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:19:21 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
OSguy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Anyone know where I can find the original Dartmouth Basic Specs? <and
please
> don't tell me to look in the MS stuff....Dartmouth Basic existed before MS
had
> an operating system>.
>
You could try contacting True BASIC, [EMAIL PROTECTED] That is were
John G. Kemeny and Thomas Kurtz seem to be now.
You could also ask this question in comp.lang.basic.* someone there might
know.
You could try to contact Dartmouth since BASIC is a registerd trademarks of
the trustees of Dartmouth.
If you do find it, could you let me know where, thanks.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: Advocacy and Programmers...
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 20:24:57 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:34:24 -0600...
...and John W. Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Pan wrote:
> >
> > The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> > >
> > > That said... Tcl and Perl are both interpretive languages (note that
> > > Perl is compiled into an intermediate form).
> >
> > I thought that Perl is interpreted entirely at run-time.
>
> Nope. Java, Perl and Python all share this common pattern: they are
> compiled to an intermediate form, and that intermediate form is then
> executed by an interpreter.
Tcl does the same.
mawa
--
The coding community is not a corporate help desk or suggestions box.
We've got our reasons for things being like they are. If you're not
satisfied with this, join, fund or otherwise support the coding
community. There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. -- mawa
------------------------------
From: josco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:43:55 -0700
On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, Seán Ó Donnchadha wrote:
> Joseph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> >Why? Product tying is still illegal.
> >
>
> OK, but where is the law that defines what may or may not go into the
> product called Windows?
In a series of books.
The case law defines what is and is not illegal product tying. A judge
applies the law to the microsoft case and then makes a ruling.
> >A browser and an operating system are different products.
> >
>
> Then why is every operating system vendor except Microsoft allowed to
> include a browser?
Monopolies are held to a different standard but even that fact isn't
necessary to answer your question.
No one has said MS cannot include a browser with windows !!!
MS says they don't include a browser with windows - they update windows
with BROWSER SERVICES. MS says there is no browser.
The DOJ says MS broke the law by bolting IE into windows so the DOJ
hasn't accused MS of including IE with windows - the DOJ accuses MS of
tying IE into windows.
I hope that helped.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: BASIC == Beginners language (Was: Just curious....
Date: 27 Jul 2000 22:37:34 GMT
On Thu, 27 Jul 2000 18:12:20 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, John Sanders
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
This reminds me of something: if you do this:
const int i = 5;
int* Ptr = const_cast<int*> ( &i ); // Shoot yourself in the foot.
*j = 6;
// These should be the same, but they often aren't.
cout << i << endl;
cout << *&i << endl;
cout << *Ptr << endl;
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?
Date: 27 Jul 2000 17:37:40 -0500
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Drestin Black wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > >
> > > Drestin Black wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "T. Max Devlin" wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Said Aaron R. Kulkis in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> > > > > > [...]
> > > > > > >You can't even be bothered to test a simple 10-line program,
and
> > > > > > >yet, you expect us to believe your other exhortations?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Come now, we're not nearly as stupid as you, punk.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well, that's true, but he was providing a quick-and-dirty
example of
> > a
> > > > > > concept, and his code illustrated the solution. He might be
stupid
> > (and
> > > > > > I'm anxious to learn more either way), but he is merely a
"punk", at
> > > > > > best, for not actually testing the scratch-code he was using for
a
> > > > > > simple example. I'd like to hear a more telling argument
> > confronting
> > > > > > his other exhortations, if you've got one.
> > > > >
> > > > > More to the point, he thinks that string-variables are an
appropriate
> > > > > solution for binary data.
> > > >
> > > > No, I just did it cause it was quick and dirty but you constantly
ignore
> > > > that. Fine.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Strings are assumed to terminate at any byte that is all 00's.
> > > >
> > > > Wrong. You are wrong. Ahhh mr programmer man, you are so limited in
your
> > > > knowledge and skills and it shows. Basic is not hampered by zero
> > > > termination. I can include ascii 0 values in my strings all I want,
> > > > anywhere, without any ill effect. You'd know that if you were a real
> > > > programmer...
> > >
> > > ASCII (0) is also known as "NULL"
> >
> > no dumb dumb, only sometimes - in databases a NULL doesn't equal
anything
> > and doesn't equal ASCII zero at all.
>
> Wrong, you fucking idiot
>
> ASCII (0) is NULL
> ASCII (48) is the character "0" (Zero)
WRONG fucko - when I write "ASCII 0 (number 0 not letter O) it is the value
zero, hex 00. That is DIFFERENT than a null value, in a database. Ask any DB
programmer, ask him if NULL=Ascii(0) and he'll role his eyes at the 1st
level mistake. You are confusing the ascii characters and their values and
all sorts of shit, revealing your only very basic understanding of this.
x00 <> Null in any database I've ever used.
<snip> > >
> > > Are you alleging that Visual Basic uses some other ascii value as
> > > a string terminator?????????
> >
> > uuu, ar you alleging that you actually posses any intelligence
whatsoever?
> > Do you also claim to actually have used a computer beyond putting
quarters
> > in slot machines?
>
> Yeah, my salary is in the 6-figure range.
ahha... ahhahah, hahahahhahahahahahha - you sure fooled someone
>
>
> >
> > I'll use small words: Basic doesn't use string terminators. (terminator
!=
> > Arnold in leather)
>
> Do this:
>
> A$="The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog"
> MID$(A,10,1)=ASC$(0)
> Print "'",A$,"'"
>
> The output will be
> 'The quick'
>
> you are truly clueless.
wrong buckwheat - First, you'll be wanting to put a $ after that A in the
MID$ function and second, the result I get is, literally:
' The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog '
there are spaces after and before the single quote marks (because you used a
comma instead of a semicolon which is what you meant to use but didn't know
you needed to).
That is the result of typing in EXACTLY what you wrote above into QBX 7.1
which I'm running this very second. (I put the $ after the A).
Now - who is the fucking clueless idiot who doesn't know when to stop
embarressing himself?
------------------------------
From: Doc Shipley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Gnome or KDE
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:47:02 GMT
2:1 wrote:
>
> I'm still a bit comfused about this one, but I thought that KDE and
> GNOME were a set of libraries providing nice functions. They often run
> with the ??? and Enlightenment wm respectively, although this is not
> necessary. So can't you just install both sets of libs, choose a wm and
> play with whatever apps you want, be they KDE or GNOME apps?
>
Yes and No. KDE and GNOME are "desktop environments". Libraries, toolbars,
sound-servers, theme
management, menuing system, and some apps are all part of the environment, with various
windowmanagers adapted to use within the environment.
You can do exactly what you're asking, though; install the libs, pick your favorite
wm and run all
the apps.
IMN-S-HO, the best of all worlds.
--
Doc Shipley
Network Stuff
Austin, Earth
------------------------------
From: josco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 16:03:35 -0700
On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Christopher Smith wrote:
>
> "Joseph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > kfm isn't distributed as a product. IE was and is and so is Windows.
>
> IE and Windows are distributed together. IE for Windows is also distributed
> seperately, and when installs upgrades parts of the OS.
When you say IE and Windows are distibuted together you freely admit and
repeat that MS leveraged the Windows monopoly to help IE - "distributed
together". It is such an obvious fact that it is hard to deliberately deny
the fact even when trying to restate MS's baloney about OS updates.
> As of IE3, IE becomes part of the OS by replacing and upgrading OS
> components.
> Presumably you think Microsoft shouldn't be allowed to distribute OS updates
> for free ? You'd rather pay for them ?
I wouldn't care about paying or not. I only care about the fact: IE
isn't an OS feature and using the OS monopoly to win new markets hurts the
consumer. I support the law.
> > That's Illegal product tying. MS's breaking Windows and shipping a
> > unworkable version of Win95 to comply with a court order was (according
> > to the Judge) one of the reasons they lost credibility and why the FoF
> > does not reflect MS's version of the facts.
>
> Just taking out IE will break Windows. You have to replace all the
> components that rely on it *not* to break Windows. Just like, well, any
> other part of the OS, really.
Breaking windows when IE is removed has been factually proven to be a
phoney artifact of MS illegally tying IE into windows.
------------------------------
From: josco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 16:09:20 -0700
On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Christopher Smith wrote:
>
> "Joseph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > Microsoft never stopped OEMs installing alternative browsers. Ever. It
> > > *specifically* says that in the FoF.
> >
> > Try to find the citation -- you be unable and realize find you're wrong.
>
> "Microsoft's license agreements have never prohibited OEMs from
> pre-installing programs, including Navigator, on their PCs [...]".
Thanks for the work. Still, OEM license agreements were not the full
extend of MS's control over OEMs so that comment doesn't prove the man's
point.
For example, their use of monopoly power against IBM for OS/2 was by
withholding the OEM agreement and advance previews of Win95 - a move that
cost IBM hundreds of millions of dollars. The terms were not written in
any OEM agreement but had a negative impact on IBM and were done to
prevent competition from OS/2 and reduce OS/2 installs.
------------------------------
From: josco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 16:11:25 -0700
On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Christopher Smith wrote:
> > I find it rather funny that Mr. Allchin doesn't even suggest that
> > Microsoft add innovative new features to IE. He just accepts that the
> > best Microsoft can do is "copy everything that Netscape does packaging
> > and product wise."
>
> Integrating IE *was* an "innovative new feature". As was componentising it.
Integrating IE was the tactic of a monopolist. It is classic violation of
anti-trust law. Crystal clear.
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