Linux-Advocacy Digest #109, Volume #28 Sun, 30 Jul 00 08:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux can physically destroy your hard drive! ("Spud")
Re: Windoze is physically destroying my hand! (was Re: Linux [..] drive!) ("Spud")
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft
Ruling Too Harsh (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Can Linux get the job done? Are there Linux apps for..... (Nico Coetzee)
Is there such a thing as a free lunch? ("Dan Jacobson")
Re: Linux, easy to use? (Andres Soolo)
Re: How Can I contribute? (Andres Soolo)
Re: Linux can save you money on electricity! (Andres Soolo)
Re: Gnome or KDE (Alexandre JackLord)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Spud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux can physically destroy your hard drive!
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 02:14:10 -0700
[snips]
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Spud wrote:
> > little more comparable, let's check back to the IDE drives. Yup,
> > there's a 75Gb, 7200RPM ATA-100 drive, for $769. I could get two
of
> > those and have change left over for the price of a comparable SCSI
> > drive.
>
> If SCSI drives were made in the same volume as IDE drives, and
> IDE drives were made in the same volume as SCSI currently is,
> the prices would be reversed as well.
>
> Besides, SCSI is superior technology. I can hook up 15 SCSI
> 160MB/sec SCSI drives on one channel of an Adaptec 29160...
Sure. At what, $1700 a drive? Nice if you've got the pocket change
for it. Then again, I'm not running heavy-duty file servers, so I
hardly need that sort of speed. Space, frequently, but not speed. As
I noted, however, if you _do_ need it, then the expense isn't really
the issue, and SCSI is, quite probably, the way to go.
> > SCSI makes perfect sense under _certain_ circumstances: if you
_need_
> > to run many separate devices. If you need the performance
available
> > by using drives which can fully operate in parallel. If I were
> > running a database server feeding 10,000 people's data
requirements, I
> > would _definitely_ look at SCSI. For non-server computing
purposes,
> > however, it seems both pointless and expensive.
>
>
> If SCSI was pushed as heavily as IDE, it would be even cheaper than
> IDE.
Perhaps... and perhaps if Lamborghinis were pushed as heavily as
Volskwagons, you'd be able to pick one up for pocket change. Fact is,
though, that they're _not_ as popular, and whether that's a cause or
an effect, not comparably priced. As a result, a lot of people will
_not_ prefer SCSI - despite your insistence that they in fact do.
------------------------------
From: "Spud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze is physically destroying my hand! (was Re: Linux [..] drive!)
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 02:21:43 -0700
"Ian Pulsford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Fscking mouse!
Umm... if the mouse is doing bad things to your hand (I get that
occasionally when using certain vector drawing packages), the simplest
solutions is, generally, don't use the mouse.
Very few Windows applications actually _require_ a mouse. The few
that do, it either makes some degree sense (eg a CAD or drawing
program), or they get reamed for their UI designs (Installshield for
Windows Installer).
I spend most of the day on Windows, and use the mouse for maybe 5% of
my time at the machine.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To:
misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was:
Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh
Date: 30 Jul 2000 10:45:17 GMT
On 29 Jul 2000 19:59:49 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spewed this unto the Network:
>The guy who gets hired as the CEO is the guy with the rich parents,
>who can afford to send him to the Harvard business school.
This is just plain dumb. People who go to an MBA program are experienced,
highly paid employees of big consulting / investment banking firms, who
could afford to pay it out of their own salaries.
Which is largely irrelevant anyway, since their companies often pay. The
reason that MBA programs are such a ripoff is that a lot of the fees are
paid from fat corporate accounts.
Again, your attempt to "prove" that a CEO position is a birthright and not
something that can be earned fails miserably ...
--
Donovan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 12:57:35 +0200
From: Nico Coetzee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: Re: Can Linux get the job done? Are there Linux apps for.....
John Becich wrote:
>
> I know nothing about Linux. I'm using Msft Word 2000, Excel, Quicken2000,
> etc., etc., under various Msft OSes. I'd like to know if I can get the job
> done under Linux.
>
Here goes...
I did a similar full migration so I might be of some help. The only area
which I cannot help you with is Quicken - apparently that area of GPL
software still suck, although I hear there are some commercial apps that
is not to bad.
Anyway - here goes.
Your Linux system will probably look something like this:
Kernel 2.2 (Typical RedHat 6.2 system) with:
* KDE and/or GNOME Window Managers (I prefer KDE, though it's completely
up to you)
* StarOffice 5.2
* Netscape Communicator 4.72
I know StarOffice can also do Web Browsing and E-Mail but to be honest -
it sucks.
Anyway, since StarOffice and Netscape is available on Windows, install
the two packages on your current Windows PC(s). Do this to first test
all your conversions of MS Data (Web Favorites included).
The easiest thing to migrate is Web Services:
Web Browser Favorites
======================
If you have IE5 Favorites, you need to convert them to a Netscape
Bookmark File. Try URL+ (
http://alone.sammit.kiev.ua/url/urlplus/index.shtml ).
After the bookmarks are in place you should now start to use Netscape as
your default browser to get to know it. If you're very used to IE5 it
might feel a bit strange, but it's important to get to know the
software.
Mail and News Settings
======================
Set up your POP3 and News Group settings in Netscape for Windows is the
same as in Linux. If you can do it in Windows, no problem then under
Linux. The only real difference is where you change all these settings.
In Netscape you set *everything* under Edit > Preferences. The only
limitation for some people is that Netscape will only give you one POP3
set-up.
To export you address book, use your current address book app to export
to a Netscape Address Book file. If it can't, have a look at Winfiles (
http://www.winfiles.com ) for an app that can.
You will obviously then need to import the file into Netscape Mail.
You will need to subscribe to News Groups from scratch.
MS Office
=========
StarOffice can import just about all Word and Excel docs, as long as you
have no macros doing funny things. Here is how I did it: I converted all
my existing Word and Excel docs to standard Office 97 files with
standard fonts (Time New Roman will do) in all docs. I also stripped all
macros from the spreadsheets.
Forget about converting PowerPoint files! What I did with PowerPoint was
to export what I had to HTML presentations. Then you can at least edit
the HTML files in StarOffice.
All the formulas I used in Excel were imported with no problems in
StarOffice.
THEN,
When all is done and you are satisfied you can install Linux as a dual
boot system. This is important so that you can have something to fall
back on - especially in the beginning. There are plenty of resources
explaining how and I can suggest the book Mastering Linux by Arman
Danesh.
When your Linux is up and running, you will need to mount the Windows
partition and copy your files over to your Linux Home directory.
Eventually when the migration was successful, you can recover the
Windows Partition and reformat it as a Linux ex2 file system for you to
use as whatever...
NOTE: Pulling the plug on Windows can take as long as 6 months,
depending on various attributes.
If your system is up to it (PIII with 128MB RAM + etc.) you can also
consider Installing Linux and then Windows under VMWare. This approach
will give you Linux PLUS Windows running at the SAME TIME! Then you can
work office stuff in Linux and do Books in Windows. COOL! Or even use
VMWare for Windows and install Linux??
Any way - Best of Luck and don't give up!
Cheers,
Nico.
--
=========================================================
This signature was added automatically by Linux:
.
I want to reach your mind -- where is it currently located?
------------------------------
From: "Dan Jacobson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.infosystems.gis,comp.infosystems.www.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Is there such a thing as a free lunch?
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 09:46:16 +0800
In comp.infosystems.gis, Dimitri Rotow posted controversial opinion #4 etc.
below, hereby crossposted to relevant groups for truth merit evaluation.
Thanks.
"Dimitri Rotow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ¼¶¼g©ó¶l¥ó
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> >
> >This thread reminds me of an exam question from a 1st year ecology
> >course: Is there such a thing as a free lunch?
> >
> >The short answer is no. The long answer is that you will pay for it some
> >where along the line with your time maybe or an implosion of your h/w in
> >a really bad case.
> >
>
> It's a shame it doesn't remind you of other concepts that might have
> been taught in that first year course such as :
>
> a) the idea of the scientific method, where one tests a hypothesis
> against observation as opposed to opinion, and
>
> b) the foolishness of attempting of lumping many complex phenomena
> within one simplistic slogan.
>
> In point of fact, your hypothesis/slogan that there is no such thing
> as a free lunch fails the observational test. There are lots of "free
> lunches" in modern computing. Allow me to name just a few that have
> transformed computing, and even GIS.
>
> 1. Zero cost retransmission of email and genuinely free access to
> Internet. This has been going on since Usenet... where have you been?
>
> 2. Linux
>
> 3. Apache and similar high-quality freeware
>
> 4. Browsers, ranging from Mosaic to Opera to Netscape (source code!
> wow!) and IE.
>
> 5. Truckloads of open source software. Whatever it is you want to
> code or use, there is likely to be some open source starting point.
> Wavelet compression? No problem!
>
> 6. A seeming infinity of cool, on-line GIS data for the US and even
> for other countries. If you don't pay US taxes this is genuinely a
> free lunch.
>
> 7. WinAmp (yeah!) ... the most important software development tool in
> modern computing.
>
> To say that free stuff is always trash is just as dumb as saying
> purchased software is always trash, or that both are always good.
> Perhaps the least inaccurate one-liner would be to observe that in
> modern computing markets the old saw "You get what you pay for" no
> longer applies. There is no longer a direct correlation between the
> price paid for software and the quality, performance or capabilities
> delivered by the software.
>
> The reasons why this is so require sophisticated discussion that is
> not reducible to one-liners.
>
> To take just one example, the same sorts of management and other
> business skills that allow a company to reduce procurement and other
> costs are very often the same sorts of skills that allow a company to
> achieve better yield from a development organization. At the same
> time, sloppy business practices that blossom in some large
> organizations will often simultaneously result in both higher costs
> and less ability to drive fast and successful development of truly new
> generation products. This is why younger, more effective companies
> will often field superior products at a much lower cost than
> bureacratized, older companies.
>
> Modern computing changes so fast that technical and market
> possibilities can change in six months; however, it can take years to
> revitalize a bureaucratized company. No wonder that leaner and more
> agile younger companies can take better advantage of technological
> progress to deliver superior goods and services at a lower cost.
>
> In some cases, it is even cheaper to deliver new goods and services
> for free (in order to build a user base or achieve some other
> strategic objective) than it is to invest into other methods of
> marketing that require users to pay money for goods and services.
> Freeware is often over-positioned by lazy marketers, but that doesn't
> mean that it does not have its uses.
>
> Consider the success of WinAmp as a case study. Suppose your
> objective is to sell yourself for a few hundred million dollars to a
> bigger Internet company. To do that you need a user base in the
> millions. You could try to raise venture capital to finance a huge
> advertising campaign to sell millions of units, but that would only
> dilute your ownership. Why not just give them away? You get vast
> growth and no dilution of ownership. That's what WinAmp did and the
> resultant user base and brand ID was worth hundreds of millions of
> dollars to their acquirer.
>
> Note that this was a genuine "free lunch" to users. There is not even
> the "cost" of ignoring advertising in this case, since WinAmp has zero
> banners and the like. It's a win-win for all concerned: free ability
> to play MP3s plus a few hundred million for the founders. Nice deal!
>
> So, when criticizing the freeware ecological niche, don't make the
> mistake of thinking just because you don't understand the business
> niche it does not make perfect economic sense to people who have the
> business savvy to make it work.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dimitri
------------------------------
From: Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux, easy to use?
Date: 30 Jul 2000 11:16:07 GMT
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> xterm existed long before DOS boxes, and comparing an xterm to a DOS box is
> a bit of a joke. Any of the UNIX shell's easily beat the crap out of DOS
> boxes - apart from readability.
Well, a language with fewer concepts is often simpler and therefore
readable after a smaller learning effort. Unfortunately, it's as often
less functional than its more complicated counterparts.
--
Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Real computer scientists like having a computer on their desk, else how
could they read their mail?
------------------------------
From: Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How Can I contribute?
Date: 30 Jul 2000 11:22:09 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I am working for a company which already have open sourced device
> drivers and applications for linux. We have certain kerna patches
> and device driver enhancements that we like to contribute to Linux
> community in general. Who should we contact? Thanks for any
> pointers!
I'd suggest you post your patches or suggestions or ideas to the
linux-kernel mailing list at linux-kernel (at) vger.rutgers.edu .
The subscribing information is available in the FAQ at
http://www.tux.org/lkml/ .
--
Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Kids, the seven basic food groups are GUM, PUFF PASTRY, PIZZA,
PESTICIDES, ANTIBIOTICS, NUTRA-SWEET and MILK DUDS!!
------------------------------
From: Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux can save you money on electricity!
Date: 30 Jul 2000 11:38:53 GMT
Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...and what programmms wuold they run? VI? HA-HA! You cant' run Ofice on VT-100
> terminnal, you know!
I'm not sure why I care anymore, but just in case ...
Are you aware that a vt100 terminal is what they nowadays call
`thin client' that *doesn't* run vi?
>> While for a small home or business environment some would say
>>"Big Deal".
> Deffinnately. Big deal.
It is. For such places as computerized grocery stores or libraries or
hospitals, cheap terminals are a good choice.
>>This can be a very big deal in a larger environment were
>>the system administration needs to not only maintain the hardware
>>including the Uninteruptable Power Supply (UPS) or the backup
>>generator(s)).
> So give all the work to the usors.
Can't do. That requies the users be trained and that, in some industries
that try to use as cheap workforce as possible (junk food chains come to
mind), is too expensive. Also, what about a library of *public access*
terminals? The practice has shown that it's better *not* to let Joe
Sixpack do any maintenance on a system more complicated than a wooden
hammer.
>> Terminals also don't break down often or require a special
>>reconfig if terminal needs to be replaced. Terminals are generic
>>enough that replacements or repairs are very standardized. Because any
>>wyse 75 is a wyse75 and the configuration is not likely to change from
>>one wyse 75 to another. The users don't have the ability to physically
>>add a soundcard or a fibre channel card to a terminal.
Correct.
> ...not to mentian graffics!
whatd'ya mean?
in relation to a grocery store?
>> On my system here all I have are terminals. I was going to try
>>a lan, a 10base2 system (still have the card in the 486 for it). But
>>when I sat down and looked at the configuration of several clients
>>that would not be on 24x7 to save power or the tendency of users to
>>turn the machines OFF improperly I just said "screw this topoligy!"
> ...I doesant wan't too work! I;ll let the users due it!
I've administrated a ``let the users do it'' network in a high school
environment and it's an experience that I wouldn't want to have again.
>>Setting up NFS and NIS on both the server and clients and maintaining
>>backups across my planned 3 node network would have been an excersize
>>in frustration. (If thats bad for a 3 node, what about 40 node?)
It can be done, but you're correct--it's generally hard to do and quite
pointless.
> ...the problem migte be your using UNIX. UNIX is dum. You half to forst it too
> due everything.
I don't even want to comment on this.
>>Never mind that Windows or Linux/Unix workstations need to bootup and
>>proper shutdown is required, or a possible file system corruption can
>>happen thus a UPS would be required to protect against a mains power
>>failure (not good agains doofus users however).
There are the thin clients and diskless workstations, so that wouldn't
actually be a problem.
> I'll replay to this: Your idea is dum. A terminnall is dum because it cant have
> GUI.
That could possibly convince a suit looking at a ticklist but it's
certainly not an actual issue.
--
Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Been through hell?
What did you bring back for me?
------------------------------
From: Alexandre JackLord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Gnome or KDE
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 11:43:56 GMT
Well,
See, I'm pissed because when we install an distro, any distro, we
got lots of junk.
Image managers from KDE, from Gnome and from the distro... for
example... Oh! And lots of multimedia tools that perform the same!!! Of
course we go SLOW, so...
... I got a question. Wouldn't be better to install the desktop
environment after the distro (and install the distro without a desktop
environment)?
--
Alexandre JackLord
I am I am I said I said I'm not myself
But I'm not dead and I'm not for sale
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
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