Linux-Advocacy Digest #110, Volume #28 Sun, 30 Jul 00 11:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Micro$oft retests TPC benchmark ("Robert Moir")
Re: Micro$oft retests TPC benchmark (fungus)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Austin Ziegler)
Re: Gnome or KDE (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Micro$oft retests TPC benchmark ("John Hughes")
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Lee Hollaar)
Re: Can Linux get the job done? Are there Linux apps for..... (Bartek Kostrzewa)
Re: Slipping away into time. (sandrews)
Re: No Gnome for me :-( (OSguy)
Re: Aaron Kulkis -- USELESS Idiot -- And His "Enemies" -was- Another one of Lenin's
Useful Idiots denies reality (Mark S. Bilk)
Re: Windoze is physically destroying my hand! (OSguy)
Re: Micro$oft retests TPC benchmark (fungus)
Re: Micro$oft retests TPC benchmark (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Micro$oft retests TPC benchmark ("Robert Moir")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Robert Moir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Micro$oft retests TPC benchmark
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 13:29:56 +0100
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
[...]
>
> Microsoft is very well-known for following "the letter" of any
> document, while completely mutilating the spirit of same.
Then you or Fungus should have no problems posting a link to a unbiased
report of what exactly the problem is supposed to be here (unbiased means
from a reputable source, not another advocate whining on their personal
website) should you?
So perhaps you can either put up the link he asked for, or explain why
neither of you can not do this? Because right now all I see is people
behaving like schoolkids.... "please Miss, Microsoft broke the rules.. but I
can't tell you how, they just did"
------------------------------
From: fungus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Micro$oft retests TPC benchmark
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 12:34:35 GMT
"Serge J.Luca" wrote:
>
> >
> > Microsoft compromised reliability to gain speed. The more machines
> > you add to a Microsoft "cluster", the less reliable it gets. This
> > is exactly the opposite of what people actually want from clustering.
> >
> >
>
> Please, prove it ....
It's inherent in the way they arranged the database. They split it
up into tiny bits so they could route queries efficiently.
This splitting up increases the number of points of failure in the
system. When Ballmer said he was "redefining clustering", that's
exactly what he meant.
FWIW, Oracle has a million dollar challenge since 1998 which
Microsoft has yet to beat. It comprises a large database, and
Microsoft has to get within 1% of the performance.
http://www.oracle.co.uk/info/news/nov98challenge.html
Add to this the known fact that Microsoft itself doesn't run
any of their internal databases (hotmail, msn, etc) on Windows
and we're left with what? Hot air about some new definition
of "scalability"....
--
<\___/>
/ O O \
\_____/ FTB.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
From: Austin Ziegler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 08:45:37 -0400
On 28 Jul 2000, Donal K. Fellows wrote:
> I wrote:
>> In the former, only the instructions are copyrightable. In the latter,
>> the ingredients are part of the instructions and are therefore
>> copyrightable.
> I'd have thought that both are copyrightable. Or is this something
> that varies between locales (are books of phone numbers copyrightable?
> It certainly takes a fair amount of effort to assemble them...)
I *believe* that the lists of phone numbers themselves are not
copyrightable, although the front matter and the back matter of the
phone books are. My understanding is that these lists are not
copyrightable for different reasons than ingredient lists. Phone number
listings are considered to be part of public property; the phone
companies don't own them, and the phone companies have to provide the
lists to those who ask. Ingredient lists are rather like chemical
formulas or mathematical formulas.
> Of course, with a short list of things in a restricted domain, it is
> actually quite difficult to prove that one version is derived from
> another, and the last thing the person bringing the case wants is to
> find that they are actually in violation of someone else's copyright,
> so losing even that protection that they thought they were enjoying.
That's more or less how it works; there's only really *one* list of
ingredients possible with most recipes -- you can shuffle it around a
little bit, but the information contained within is going to be the
same regardless. (Sure, you can have a recipe that calls for a total of
three sticks of butter say 3 sticks, and then specify that you use two
sticks in one part of the recipe and one stick in another part of the
recipe, but whether you represent that as 3 sticks or 2 sticks and 1
stick, it's still the same information.) The number of representations
are limited.
-f
--
austin ziegler * fant0me(at)the(dash)wire(d0t)c0m * Ni bhionn an rath ach
ICQ#25o49818 (H) * aziegler(at)s0lect(d0t)c0m * mar a mbionn an smacht
ICQ#21o88733 (W) * fant0me526(at)yah00(d0t)c0m * (There is no Luck
AIM Fant0me526 *-s/0/o/g--------&&--------s/o/0/g-* without Discipline)
Toronto.ON.ca * I speak for myself alone *-----------------------
PGP *** 7FDA ECE7 6C30 2356 17D3 17A1 C030 F921 82EF E7F8 *** 6.5.1
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Gnome or KDE
Date: 30 Jul 2000 12:54:54 GMT
On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 11:43:56 GMT, Alexandre JackLord wrote:
> See, I'm pissed because when we install an distro, any distro, we
>got lots of junk.
This is not really true. You should be able to do a bare bones install
in almost any distro.
> ... I got a question. Wouldn't be better to install the desktop
>environment after the distro (and install the distro without a desktop
>environment)?
If you want a minimal, lean install, which is what you seem to want, then
possibly yes. Or better, if you really want "lean", don't even install
a desktop environment in the first place. Install fvwm2 possibly with
XFCE, or icewm or blackbox or something. KDE and GNOME both carry around
a lot of baggage. That's kind of the whole point of "desktop environments".
Most distributions will let you actually choose the packages individually,
or ( for example in Redhat's case ) choose clusters of dependency-complete
packages. And most of them will cover for you if you choose individual
packages but miss dependencies.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: "John Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Micro$oft retests TPC benchmark
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 14:04:35 +0100
"fungus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
<snip>
>
> FWIW, Oracle has a million dollar challenge since 1998 which
> Microsoft has yet to beat. It comprises a large database, and
> Microsoft has to get within 1% of the performance.
>
>
> http://www.oracle.co.uk/info/news/nov98challenge.html
>
So where are Oracles TPC-D results?
www.tpc.org doesnt seem to have them.....Oh, wait. It falls under 'obsolete
benchmarks'...LOL....
Oh and check out the first tpc-w result. An IBM submitted Windows 2000/SQL
Server 2000 result.....
http://www.tpc.org/New_Result/tpcw_perf_results.asp
>
> Add to this the known fact that Microsoft itself doesn't run
> any of their internal databases (hotmail, msn, etc) on Windows
> and we're left with what? Hot air about some new definition
> of "scalability"....
>
This isnt a known fact. Can you provide references to your 'facts'.? Or are
you a liar.......?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lee Hollaar)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: 30 Jul 2000 13:04:50 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Austin
Ziegler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>I *believe* that the lists of phone numbers themselves are not
>copyrightable, although the front matter and the back matter of the
>phone books are. My understanding is that these lists are not
>copyrightable for different reasons than ingredient lists. Phone number
>listings are considered to be part of public property; the phone
>companies don't own them, and the phone companies have to provide the
>lists to those who ask.
For the definite answer of why telephone white page directories are not
copyrightable, see the Supreme Court's decision in _Feist Publications Inc.
v. Rural Telephone Service Co. Inc._, 499 US 340, 18 USPQ2d 1275 (1991).
The short answer is that there is insufficient originality in an
alphabetic listing of telephone subscribers, with the entries having
their names, phone numbers, and possibly their addresses.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 15:37:51 +0200
From: Bartek Kostrzewa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: Re: Can Linux get the job done? Are there Linux apps for.....
John Becich wrote:
>
> I know nothing about Linux. I'm using Msft Word 2000, Excel, Quicken2000,
> etc., etc., under various Msft OSes. I'd like to know if I can get the job
> done under Linux.
Well, I can.
>
> I've heard the most popular word processor under Linux is Corel Word
> Perfect. What happens if I'm exchanging email with a word processor
> attachment that originated under Word 2000? Can such a file be passed back
> and forth with full editability between a Linux/WP user and a Win2K/Word2K
> user?
>
Sounds more like Sun's (former StarDivision's) StarOffice (6 soon to be
released). Almsot loss-free conversion of Word, Excel and Powerpoint.
> Ditto question about spreadsheet app. What spreadsheet would I use under
> Linux? Corel Quattro Pro for Linux? What version?
>
Ditto. (or gnumeric)
> Then there's the all important bookkeeping. I like Quicken. Using
> Quicken2000 now, upgrade every year or two. What would I use under Linux?
> I haven't called Intuit to ask if it supports Linux. (I can sure expect
> that Microsoft doesn't make a Msft Money version for Linux!) What would I
> use for bookkeeping under Linux? Can I migrate my Quicken files?
There are many tools of this kind. Check freshmeat.net
>
> Ditto tax preparation. I use Turbo Tax. What would I use under Linux?
Uhmm.. NO IDEA!
>
> Address book. I have an older version (5) of Parson's Address Book, which I
> love. (Didn't care for the upgrade at all!) There is a ton of work in my
> address book database. It can be exported in various file forms. What
> address book app should I use under Linux, and can I import a file from a
> Microsoft operating system?
>
Export to Netscape Adress book, then load under linux Netscape.
> Email. I use Outlook Express 5. I love POP3 email. Don't care for web
> mail at all. What would I use under Linux? Will my OE
> data migrate? (Not vital)
Netscape, Pine (+fetchmail in a cron job) MUTT, and maaaaaaany more!
>
> Ditto internet surfering, browsing. What to use under Linux? Will my
> (extensive) favorite place collection migrate from Internet Explorer 5?
>
Netscape, Opera, Amaya, Mozilla R16/17, Netscape 6, etc.etc.etc.....
(and of course, the all-mighty w3m and lynx)
> Ditto newsgroups. I love my OE5 newsgroup reader. Don't care for web based
> access like Deja. What would I use under Linux? Will my data migrate from
> OE5?
>
Netscape, Pine etc....
> ***************
>
> It is thus important for any new competing product to be able to co-exist
> with a de-facto standard product like Word 2000. It is important for any
> new competing product to support migration from de-facto standard products
> like MSWord, Quicken, Turbo Tax, etc.
>
Well, it has the strengths already. Although I miss a tool as powerful
as Photoshop still (and The Gimp, even if it's impressive, is not
Photoshop)
> *********
> Closer to the OS....I have many files saved under Windows NT. Can I migrate
> them to a Linux platform, or must they remain behind?
>
You can read from an NTFS partition without problem, but write access is
pre-beta still.
> Networking. Do most 100 Mbit Ethernet cards function, and function well,
> under Linux? I presume the hubs would work, as that functionality is quite
> removed from any operating system.
>
The most networked OS not possible to use Network cards???! duh... Even
the Windowing Systen uses a socket/server/client protocol (yep, remote
graphics!)
There is even SAMBA, a tool to emulate a Win9x/NT file-/printersharing
machine
for Linux (it shows up just like any normal Win machine in Network
Neighboorhood in Win), also vice-versa.
> Thanks,
> John Becich
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 09:54:10 -0400
From: sandrews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Slipping away into time.
Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nathaniel Jay Lee) wrote in
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >Might I make a suggestion Pete?
> >
> >I believe the above statement is indicative of the additude that has
> >bothered so many of the Linvocates in here. Your statement that you
> >have 'found' another sound card unsupported by Linux seems to come
> >across as you 'went looking for' another sound card that was unsupported
> >by Linux. Not to be nit-picky, but that could offend someone that is a
> >Linux supporter (if they get upset easily).
>
> I'm not sure how my statement could be misread, I said "I found" and I
> didn't say "I went looking for".
>
> The sound card in question is one I obtained from work. As I said before, I
> work with device drivers, specifically audio device drivers. That covers
> ESS, Crystal and Analog Devices (AC'97). Some of these have Linux drivers,
> some don't. I don't deliberately pick cards that won't work with Linux - in
> this case I was given an S100 (ESS198X), as I found out later, not
> supported by Linux Mandrake 7.1.
If you really write sound/audio drivers, why don`t you use the
information you have at your disposal and write sound/audio
drivers for linux. Ah but then you wouldn`t have anything to
bitch about and you would then be contributing to the open
source community, can`t have that now could we.
--
M$ Windows is aptly named, after all, it's easily broken, and offers
little
security, just like the glass ones...
------------------------------
From: OSguy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: No Gnome for me :-(
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 09:10:40 -0500
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> Just specify UPGRADE.
>
> all of your "work files" should be in your home directory, and thus,
> untouched.
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> ICQ # 3056642
No offense, but been there, done that, same results. :-(
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark S. Bilk)
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: Aaron Kulkis -- USELESS Idiot -- And His "Enemies" -was- Another one of
Lenin's Useful Idiots denies reality
Date: 30 Jul 2000 14:08:01 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Loren Petrich wrote:
>>
>>I think that there is a disagreement here as to what is and is
>>not necessary government intervention.
>>
>>And I think that a libertarian ought not to have a career in the
>>instruments of government coercion.
>
>Libertarian philosophy is that the military should be an all-volounteer
>organization.
>
>I'm a volounteer.
>
>You could be too, fat boy.
>
>J: Loren's Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST asshole.
No, what it demonstrates is that you, Kulkis, are a lying,
slandering sack of shit, and that you have the beliefs,
methods, and morals of Joe McCarthy.
Loren Petrich has been posting insightful, useful, and
accurate information in Usenet for many years. An examina-
tion of his posts in DejaNews shows that he's a democratic
Liberal, and maybe a Social Democrat, but certainly not a
non-democratic Communist. Or are these all equivalent
according to your ultra-Right-wing delusional system, since
you disdain democracy in favor of unrestricted robbery,
violence, starvation, and death?
The purpose of your .signature, Kulkis, which is illegal
according to the rules of the Usenet community, is to libel
people over and over again, many thousands of times, in
every one of the hundreds of spam articles you post every
day, because you are unable to refute those people in a
rational discussion.
You are a thug and a backstabbing coward.
>--
>Aaron R. Kulkis
>Unix Systems Engineer
>ICQ # 3056642
>
>J: Loren's Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
>A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
>
>B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
>
>C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
> sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
> that she doesn't like.
>
>D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
>
>E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (D) above.
>
>F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
> response until their behavior improves.
>
>G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
>H: Knackos...you're a retard.
>
------------------------------
From: OSguy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze is physically destroying my hand!
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 09:20:26 -0500
Spud wrote:
> I spend most of the day on Windows, and use the mouse for maybe 5% of
> my time at the machine.
So, you'd have me believe that you navigate the windows desktop with the
ALT-Key/Arrow Key series using the mouse only 5% of the time? It must
take you an awfully long time to launch those apps that don't need the
mouse (especially the graphical ones). Why do I suspect that you spend
95% of your time in a MSDOS shell with DOS programs and you must not be
running NT since NT doesn't run many DOS apps at all? I don't think W2K
is any more compatible to DOS apps than NT is.
------------------------------
From: fungus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Micro$oft retests TPC benchmark
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 14:20:24 GMT
John Hughes wrote:
>
> > Add to this the known fact that Microsoft itself doesn't run
> > any of their internal databases (hotmail, msn, etc) on Windows
> > and we're left with what? Hot air about some new definition
> > of "scalability"....
> >
>
> This isnt a known fact. Can you provide references to your 'facts'.? Or are
> you a liar.......?
John,
It's been what, a whole week since the last thread about Microsoft
not using Windows for any of their stuff? Have you forgotton already
or are you doing this deliberately?
Whatever...I certainly don't mind posting some more proof to the
Windows advocacy newsgroups, so here we go (again):
MSN
---
Click here...it's all the proof you need:
http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/nix/
- You'll have to use Netscape as IE masks the useful HTTP error
messages. With Netscape it will say:
==================
Not Found
The requested URL /nix/ was not found on this server.
Apache/1.3.9 Server at msnhomepages.talkcity.com Port 6010
==================
Note the word "Apache".
Hotmail
=======
It's well established that Hotmail runs on Solaris, Microsoft openly
admits this. I've even pointed this out to you before, remember?
http://x55.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=590718078
<Keep on bashing, it doesn't seem to have sunk in yet>
Will they be moving Hotmail to Windows NT (their stated long term goal)
anytime soon? You'd think so, now that Windows 2000 is finished and
they're claiming to have the fastest TPC servers in the world, right?
Maybe they will... I personlly don't know what's happening inside
Redmond but it seems the Hotmail Development team is hiring:
http://www.microsoft.com/jobs/search/jobDetail.asp?jobNumber=683509
Prospective candidates "Must have a minimum of 4 years experience
in Unix administration. Working knowledge of Sun hardware along
with in depth understanding of the Solaris and FreeBSD operating
systems."
--
<\___/>
/ O O \
\_____/ FTB.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Micro$oft retests TPC benchmark
Date: 30 Jul 2000 14:31:08 GMT
On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 12:34:35 GMT, fungus wrote:
>
>FWIW, Oracle has a million dollar challenge since 1998 which
>Microsoft has yet to beat. It comprises a large database, and
>Microsoft has to get within 1% of the performance.
The challenege says that they have to use MS SQL. IBM have already
soundly whipped oracle running the benchmark on a cluster of NT 4 machines
running DB2.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: "Robert Moir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Micro$oft retests TPC benchmark
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 16:00:00 +0100
"fungus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
[...]
> Click here...it's all the proof you need:
>
> http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/nix/
>
> - You'll have to use Netscape as IE masks the useful HTTP error
> messages. With Netscape it will say:
>
> ------------------
> Not Found
> The requested URL /nix/ was not found on this server.
>
> Apache/1.3.9 Server at msnhomepages.talkcity.com Port 6010
> ------------------
>
> Note the word "Apache".
Yeah but as Talk City are a seperate company that MSN merely has a
partnership with, this merely proves that MSN *do not* insist on people they
have partnerships with using Microsoft software. Very much in the
competetive spirit don't ya think?
So far we've proved you are either an idiot or a fudster.
> Hotmail
> -------
>
> It's well established that Hotmail runs on Solaris, Microsoft openly
> admits this. I've even pointed this out to you before, remember?
Well this is well documented. I still don't personally see the point of
rushing to migrate a system that works perfectly well on one platform to
another without a good reason, so I don't care whether they migrate or not.
I suspect if they were going to try they might be waiting for W2K DataCenter
and Exchange 2000 both to RTM.
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.advocacy) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
