Linux-Advocacy Digest #256, Volume #28 Sun, 6 Aug 00 03:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux or Windows 2000 ???? (Courageous)
Re: Linux or Windows 2000 ???? (Jacques Guy)
Re: R.E. Ballard says Linux growth stagnating (Christopher Browne)
Napsterwear.com bring new linux edition ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was:
Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh (Jim Richardson)
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was:
Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh (Jim Richardson)
Re: Changing LILO in Mandrake? (Jim Richardson)
Re: The Failure of the USS Yorktown (Jim Richardson)
Re: The Failure of the USS Yorktown (Jim Richardson)
Re: maximum (?) linux (David M. Cook)
Re: From a Grove of Birch Trees It Came...
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft
Ruling Too Harsh
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft
Ruling Too Harsh
Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Star Office to be open sourced (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Star Office to be open sourced (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Star Office to be open sourced (T. Max Devlin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Courageous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux or Windows 2000 ????
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 04:13:50 GMT
> That's the reason a lot of people are moving away from VB and Windows
> to Java and Linux. Honestly, I don't believe that Windows will die
> away. But one cannot deny the fact that Linux has been gathering a lot
> of momentum lately.
But so is the market itself. Is there any real evidence
(or even inklings of evidence) that Linux is actually
attacking Window's market share on the desktop? I'd
be surprised. I wouldn't be so suprised to see Linux
win a back-office battle with anything from M.S. of
course.
> If W2K is really a good OS, the splitting up of MS will not affect its
> sales.
It is, and I don't think it will.
C//
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 04:35:49 +0000
From: Jacques Guy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux or Windows 2000 ????
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In article <8mcnt6$ego$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
BTW, how could anyone fall into such a troll-net as
people calling themselves (Stan) Laurel and (Oliver) Hardy?
Are those two really forgotten history? Is Buster
Keaton forgotten? And Charlie Chaplin? ("Charlot"
with us).
> > What software am I going to run on it ??? All the world class software
> > is written for Windows. Hardly anything is ported to Linux.
But much of it runs under WINE
> > I can create a great application using Visual Basic
It seems that VB runs under WINE (viz http://www.winehq.com)
I did a search on WINE because I have had my fill of Windows.
The wretched thing had destroyed my FAT twice over the past
four/five years, and that is two times too many. Back up,
back up, back up! My fundamental derriere. I don't store
my furniture away every I leave home. I don't "back up"
my car seats and boot contents every time I fill up. If
I hadn't had Linux, I would have had to do a low-level
formatting of my hard disk. Cago en Microsoft!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: R.E. Ballard says Linux growth stagnating
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 05:03:32 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when fred would say:
>On Thu, 03 Aug 2000 02:18:14 GMT, R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard )
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Rex Ballard - Open Source Advocate, Internet
>>I/T Architect, MIS Director
>>http://www.open4success.com
>>Linux - 40 million satisfied users worldwide
>>and growing at over 5%/month! (recalibrated 7/2/00)
>
>Rex has recalibrated his Linux counter again.
>
>It's kind of interesting how his counter is a bit well, optimistic.
>
>In 8/99 it was 44 million growing at 3% a week
>in 10/99 it was 50 million growing at 3% a week
>In 12/99 it was 60 million growing at 3% a week
>In 04/00 it was 60 million growing at 1% a week
>In 06/00 it was 90 million growing at 5% a month
>
>And now as of his August 3, 2000 post it is a mere 42 million growing
>at 5% a month.
>
>I just wish deja.com had those old posts back online. ;(
>
>Never could figure out where that 90 million number came from, glad to
>see Rex is willing to correct his mistakes.
>
>Now if only he'd realize that the reality is probably half what he's
>claiming, i.e. around 20 million. :)
Mind you, if reality is around 20 million, that's still none too shabby.
>Or if he'd finally admit to making up the Microsoft/Unix story.
But that might lead to bigger and worse things.
He might have to admit to not having invented the Internet, just like
Al Gore. And that association with Democratic presidential figures might
be unacceptable. (Yes, there could be other reasons; this is just one
of the more entertaining ones...)
>Or well, maybe if he'd just stop posting. :)
If he'd only post the things he had actually researched, and had
verifiable facts for...
Um, well, I guess that probably amounts to what you said. :-).
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/linux.html>
"Free software: the Source will be with you, always."
-- Will Mengarini <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Napsterwear.com bring new linux edition
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 05:06:10 GMT
I hope they do not end in court because of this. New verson of what?
Help???
http://www.napsterwear.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To:
misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was:
Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 10:39:04 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 31 Jul 2000 03:54:45 GMT,
Loren Petrich, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Jim Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>On 30 Jul 2000 21:43:20 GMT,
>> Loren Petrich, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> brought forth the following words...:
>
>>>>The H1-B system is evil, and should be abolished, there should be no
>>>>restriction on coming here to work.
>>> So national citizenship ought to become a meaningless concept?
>>Perhaps you could explain to me what it means now? I am an American,
>>it is not a nationalist idea. It's about freedom.
>
> Being a member of a certain community. I'd like to see Mr.
>Richardson move to elsewhere in the world and still consider himself an
>honorary American.
You want to pay me to move? I'll consider it, if not, you don't want it
enough to matter.
>
>>> I'd prefer something more honest, such as support for a world
>>>government.
>>You won't get that from me, I am not in support of such a thing.
>
> So we are back to having national governments and national citizenship.
No, you are debating with the false-dilemma error. It's not either or.
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To:
misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was:
Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 10:40:36 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 31 Jul 2000 03:52:02 GMT,
Loren Petrich, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Stuart Dunn wrote:
>>> Loren Petrich wrote:
>
>>> > All the employers have to do is create some new job
>>> > classification for the purpose of evading that regulation.
>>> So what? If it weren't for the wasteful government handouts and
>>> administrative agencies that cause unemployment, there'd be enough jobs
>>> for every qualified member of the American workforce plus several
>>> million foreigners. If you're really concerned about fighting
>>> unemployment, join the Libertarian Party.
>
> A party which has gone exactly *nowhere* in US electoral politics.
>
So you support the party you think will win, no matter if they aggree with
your politics?
>>But then he couldn't whine about the "plight of the (lazy) poor".....
>
> While Mr. Kulkis never accepts that anything bad that happens to
>him is *his* fault, of course.
>
> If there were no more poor people, I would not complain; I would
>not feel like some cold warrior after the Soviet Union had collapsed.
Too bad the govt programs have had such a bad effect on the "poor" then, isn't
it?
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Changing LILO in Mandrake?
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 10:58:21 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 31 Jul 2000 07:44:55 -0500,
Tim Palmer, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>Cap'n <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>I'll admit I'm somewhat of a newbie to Mandrake Linux,
>>and this is probably a stupid question...but, I need the
>>answer.
>>
>>I just installed Mandrake 7.1 on my system in a dual boot with
>>Win98. My hard drive is in four partitions:
>>
>>Partition 1: Win98 system files (1.5 GB) - hdc1
>>Partition 2: Win98 programs (8 GB) - hdc2
>>Partition 3: Linux Swap (133 MB) - hdc6
>>Partition 4: Linux Native: Mandrake Distro (2.3 GB) - hdc7
>>
>>After I installed Mandrake and LILO, Linux is the first
>>boot option and loads Mandrake after 10 seconds,
>>unless I type Windows. I want to set it up so that Windows
>>boots after 10 seconds, unless I type Linux.
>>
>>What's the easiest way to change this in Mandrake? Or
>>if someone could point me to a Mandrake HOWTO Web link
>>for this, I would appreciate it.
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>
>>*** The Cap'n ****
>
>Eddit a text fial and recompial kernal.
>
>
Despite Tim's (poorly spelt) hyperbole, you can change the boot order in
one of 3 ways.
Edit /etc/lilo.conf to put the entry you want first in line and rerun lilo
Edit /etc/lilo.conf to add the line default=windows (or whatever the windows
entry is called) at the top of the file in the global variables section,
and rerun lilo.
Or IIRC using Drake, the mandrake config tool, you can do this, but I don't
use mandrake so I can't be sure there.
Note that Tim was either incorrect, or simply lying about recompiling the
kernel.
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Failure of the USS Yorktown
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 11:46:08 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:47:16 -0400,
Aaron R. Kulkis, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>>
>> The Merkhava, whilst a good design, has compromises that make it unsuitable
>> for many forces. It is relatively slow, heavy and relies mostly on armour
>> (damn good armour.) Than mobility. This is because the Isreali Army has a
>> relatively small area to defend, and doesn't need fast road performance as
>> much as they need tanks that protect the expensive crews as much as possible.
>> (Israel cannot afford the manpower losses that say, Libya can.)
>
>Nor can they afford to risk a hole in the line.
Right, one of the reasons for the heavy front armour, and the relatively
slow road speed.
>
>> As for the latest experience, Desert Storm certainly needs to be counted
>> there, although heavily outnumbered by the Iraqi forces, the allied forces,
>> mostly american, did a bang up job with the armour. Not because of the
>> superiority of the equipment (the Iraqi had better artillery, and more tubes)
>
>Actually, that was part of a disinformation program.
>
>Yes, the Soviet-supplied tube-artillery (traditional howitzers and
>cannons) have a slight edge in range against ours...
The Iraqi army had many Soviet Tubes, but they also had several hundred
South-African G-5's a 155mm howitzer with better range and accuracy than
US models.
>BUT
>
>1. Our artillery is more accurate at extreme range
>
>2. MLRS systems have heavier payloads than 210mm artillery
> AND have longer range AND are even MORE accurate than
> any tube-fired projectile
>
>3. We have superior radar for counter-artillery fire.
> As one Iraqi artilleryman said after the war:
> "to pull a lanyard was to sign your own death warrant"
Right, part of the combined forces. Radar spots it, and anyone
with ordenance in range is tasked to smack it.
>4. US artillery doctrine is called "shoot and scoot" Our guys
> pull up, shot a mission and then LEAVE before any
> counter-battery fire can come raining down. (This
> form of artillery support demands extremely good planning
> and excellent discipline of the artillerymen, but when
> facing the threat of being massively outnumbered if there
> was a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, artillery
> preservation was a very high priority.
>
Of course, US has just about the best Artillery forces in the world overall.
But there are better guns, the G5 and G6 are about the best there is in
the 155mm range.
(damn Aaron, enough with the sig allready.)
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Failure of the USS Yorktown
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 13:55:57 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 22:22:54 -0400,
Aaron R. Kulkis, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>"Colin R. Day" wrote:
>>
>> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>>
>> > > > Gasoline burns way too easily, diesel is a lot harder to ignite, this means
>> > > > that taking a hit in say, a Panther with the Maybach diesel, or a T34 with
>> > > > it's diesel, was a lot less likely to result in a conflagration.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > Doh! I recall reading that, but I will not plead beer deprivation.
>> > >
>> >
>> > Um...Beer Overload?
>> >
>>
>> No. I don't drink beer, so not having beer isn't deprivation. I had read
>> about that in regard to an Israeli tank that had the gas tank in front
>> of the crew area.
>>
>
>Sounds like a death trap...even in peacetime!
>
Actually, since the fuel is diesel, it's pretty safe, and the fuel acts as
extra armour, especially to shaped charge rounds which have been hopefully
dissapated somewhat by the active armour.
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David M. Cook)
Subject: Re: maximum (?) linux
Date: 6 Aug 2000 05:53:32 GMT
On Sat, 5 Aug 2000 15:51:24 -0400, MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Yes, let the slime magazine go under as they let people know the true degree
>of difficulty and down sides to using Linux, while helping new users who
>undertake the challenge.
Putting out vague or inaccurate information is not helpful to new users.
>Elitist, I would think is the word I'm looking for to describe the
>prevailing attitude.
Condescending is its obverse.
Dave Cook
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: From a Grove of Birch Trees It Came...
Date: 6 Aug 2000 02:03:11 -0400
Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spewed this unto the Network:
>Loren Petrich wrote:
>> >> Mr. Kulkis has not been moving to a libertarian utopia, to name
>> >> just one example.
>> >Not moving to a place which does not exist is not failure.
>>
>> Is Mr. Kulkis too lazy to create one?
>>
>
>NO...I just can't find my magic wand...ASSHOLE
>
Why don't you just vote one into existence? Oops, I forgot, voting
doesn't really do anything either.
--
Microsoft Windows. Garbage at your fingertips.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was:
Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh
Date: 6 Aug 2000 02:25:29 -0400
Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spewed this unto the Network:
>What part of SUCKY BUSINESSMEN WILL BE ALLOWED TO FAIL do you no
>understand?
The "BUSINESSMEN" part. Is your definition of "BUSINESSMAN" so broad
that you think every man, woman and child that can't scurry up that
corporate ladder fast enough should die? I thought that Social Darwinism
died in the early 1900s, at least in the U.S. Are you living in the past as
you think others are doing? Or are you living in Indonesia, where people
still work twelve-hour shifts in factories owned by American companies for
$10 per month?
--
Delete all files?
<Y>es, <S>ure, <A>bsolutely, <W>hy not :
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was:
Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh
Date: 6 Aug 2000 02:28:42 -0400
Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spewed this unto the Network:
>On 2 Aug 2000 06:58:36 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spewed this unto the Network:
>>>> The last I saw, however, Mr. Kulkis does not have hundreds of
>>>>millions of dollars of wealth, and he does not have tends of thousands of
>>>>underlings who grovel in fear before him.
>>
>>>In this day and age, I don't believe anyone in the US does.
>>>( a few have the wealth, none I know of have the underlings ) I don't know
>>There have to be underlings somewhere, because if there aren't, then
>>we live in anarchy ( == the absence of hierarchy ) right now.
>
>Underlings is insufficient. Loren said "underlings who grovel in fear before
>him". Not just one such underling, but "tends of thousands" of them.
Grovelling in fear is implied in the definition of underling. If they didn't
have anything to be afraid of, they would be equals, not underlings.
--
Microsoft Windows. Flaky and built to stay that way.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 02:29:16 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Nathaniel Jay Lee in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>[blah....blah....blah....]
>
>You continuous quest to prove what an asshole I am is starting to do
>more than get on my nerves.
>
>FUCK OFF!
I'm afraid that maybe you're just a bit too thin-skinned for posting to
Usenet, then. I was responding to your post, and I did so in a calm and
reasonable manner. I never sought to attack you, undermine your
position with distractions or misrepresentations, or even use the word
"silly", let alone 'asshole'. I don't think you're wrong, Nate; just
mistaken. If that upsets you, I'm sorry, but its not going to prevent
me from responding to your posts, as you often have very interesting
points which cause me to consider all sorts of possibilities, and I like
to post them so that they will be considered by those who might agree or
disagree, at their option. Its a shame if you can't benefit from the
presentation of my thoughts, and I am sorry if its bothering you.
Perhaps, if you won't pay any attention to my repeated attempts to
dissuade you of this notion that I'm trying to malign you in some way,
you should just use a killfile.
Thanks for your time. Hope it helps.
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.sys.sun.misc,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Star Office to be open sourced
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 02:29:17 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Drazen Kacar in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>T. Max Devlin wrote:
>> Said Drazen Kacar in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>
>I said it in gnu.misc.discuss, BTW. FuT set without advocacy groups.
Not from this side of cyberspace. Crossposted to COLA and adm. If
you'd like, we can narrow the group list down to adm, my "home" group,
but I have no desire to subscribe to gnu.misc.discuss. Yet, at least.
>> >Depends on what "it works" mean. For example, Sun's make has rather nice
>> >debugging features, ie. when make complains about something in the
>> >Makefile, you can find the problem with minimum effort. With GNU make it's
>> >not nearly so easy.
>>
>> Features can be copied. It is code that cannot be copied. Adding this
>> to GNU is most obviously both preferable and easier than trying to
>> control Sun's make.
>
>I can agree that it's preferable to add the feature to GNU make. However,
>I don't know what you mean by "trying to control Sun's make."
It means you can add features to GNU make, you can't add features to
Sun's. Only Sun can do that. Sun can also, arbitrarily from your
perspective and quite possibly to your detriment (I say this
theoretically, having a great deal of respect for Sun as a Unix vendor)
change their make; they control it. You control GNU make, though, and
nobody could ever screw up your ability to continue to use it in
whatever way you desire or require.
[...]
>To me, this all means that interoperability is good. However, there are
>situations when interoperability causes more grief (for the developers)
>than good. Make example is in this category, but which approach is
>better depends on every particular project.
I see what you mean, and I think you're right. About interoperability
causing more grief for developers, anyway. I don't agree that which
approach is better depends on every particular project. I think
interoperability is *always* better, and most particularly and
especially when it causes more grief for the developer than avoiding or
not supporting interoperability. Interoperability is not for the
developer's benefit; it is for the customer's benefit, and possibly
their's alone.
If that extra effort required to be interoperable causes your product to
cost more, and thus not gain acceptance, then the question becomes how
the more successful alternatives handled the same issue. If they
supported interoperability, the question is "what's your problem?". If
they didn't, the question is "why?". If they said they did, but didn't,
then you've been killed by anti-competitive, not competitive, products.
>> GNU is always the best choice yes, even when its broke, and it should,
>> by its nature, always be the easiest to decide to use when supporting a
>> make implementation.
>
>Even if there are other free make implementations? If so, does it mean
>that GNU tar should also be preferred, even if there are other free
>tar implementations? Or any other GNU tool, for that matter?
OK, you got me. I'm an idealist, and a lunatic idealist at that. I
think everybody in the industry *should* consider GNU software superior
to all other alternatives, simply because I want to encourage the
abolition of profiteering on commercial trade secret software licenses
and the resultant free use of software by everyone. I don't even feel
guilty about it, because I believe that what makes a technology "best"
in supporting interoperability is that it is widely implemented, not
that it actually has any technical advantages, necessarily, over
alternatives.
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Star Office to be open sourced
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 02:29:19 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Austin Ziegler in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>On Fri, 28 Jul 2000, T. Max Devlin wrote:
>> Said Austin Ziegler in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>>> On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, T. Max Devlin wrote:
>>>> Said Florian Weimer in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>>>>> There are many broken incarnations of make(1) out there. No surprise
>>>>> that sometimes, developers say "we don't care about that, take GNU
>>>>> make instead, it works".
>>>> And its free. Where's the surprise? I would think "it works and its
>>>> free" would be enough to convince anybody to use something, wouldn't
>>>> you?
>>> Nope, because it also has the negative side of "it's not included with
>>> the system." Because it's not included with the system, and because it
>>> can't be bought from a large vendor, it can't be supported -- and
>>> there's no one to lay the blame upon if it does cause failures.
>
>>> Not that *I* consider such a reason good enough, but I've seen such
>>> reasoning stop the use of GPLed software dead.
>> It's not included? You don't get GNU make in a typical Linux distro?
>> That sounds outrageous to me.
>
>I suggest that you retake that reading comprehension course, or get
>your money back. Florian said "there are many broken incarnations of
>make(1) out there." At this point, it should be reasonably obvious --
>and it's *painfully* obvious by the next sentence -- that he's not
>talking about Linux, which provides GNU make as its default
>implementation.
Yes, my mistake. I had forgotten that some people still use
"proprietary" Unix flavors. ;-)
>Companies may avoid GNU make because it doesn't come by default with
>their non-Linux system. You know, the other operating systems that more
>than 90% of the world runs on for critical applications.
I would suppose that for anyone who would know how to use make, knowing
how to get the free GNU make would be a decisively trivial barrier. I
don't think people who present themselves as software developers should
justify a choice to avoid interoperability with such a trite idea as
this. There may be some *real* reasons that Sun's (or any other
non-open Unix) 'make' might be preferable, but the fact it isn't bundled
with the OS isn't one of them, IMHO. It is open, GPL, GNU make, after
all; I think most would agree that its your best chance at being
platform independent and thus portable, isn't it?
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Star Office to be open sourced
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 02:29:20 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said phil hunt in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:54:09 -0400, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>"Programming is hard," said Barbie.
>
>:-)
>
>Did they eventually take out the "Maths is hard" comment?
I think it was closer to "immediately", rather than "eventually", TBH.
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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