Linux-Advocacy Digest #82, Volume #29 Tue, 12 Sep 00 22:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: End-User Alternative to Windows
Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Re: Sun cannot use Java for their servers!! (lyttlec)
Re: How low can they go...? (Seán Ó Donnchadha)
Re: The Test: Dial-up Connections (Donovan Rebbechi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: End-User Alternative to Windows
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:34:52 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Yannick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:FCwv5.1662$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit dans le message :
> 8ph025$vh9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Ingemar Lundin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:NzPu5.16$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > rpm is not Linux alternative to winzip thats gzip/gunzip, rpm is the
> > > alternative for .msi -files or rather .msi was invented by MS after
rpm
> > had
> > > been around for awhile....strange he?
> >
> > Not really strange, it is just another case of Windows playing catch up
> with
> > Linux / unix.
>
> Does RPM have an automatic repair functionality (not that useful, of
course,
> but still...) ? and also that possibility to advertise optional
Don't ask me about RPM's, I don't use them.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:12:15 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
> >
> > Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
> >
> > > > Consider this example:
> > > >
> > > > A man is an experience meatcutter and noe runs a meatpacking house.
> > This
> > > > man is also an instructor in a local community college. At the
college
> > > > besides being an instructor he is also the chairman of the supplies
> > > > procurement committee for the culinary arts department. That
committee
> > > > select the appropriate sources to supply the various needs of the
> > culinary
> > > > arts department. By the early efforts of this man, his packing
house is
> > the
> > > > sole supplier of meats to the culinary arts department. Over the
years
> > the
> > > > courses taught have been shaped to fit the cuts of meat that his
company
> > > > supplies, including some speciality meats that only his company
> > provides.
> > > >
> > > > Does this man have a conflict of interest?
> > >
> > > The analogy doesn't fit the KDE case, so I refuse to answer your
> > > question,
> > > because you will try to use that as "proof" of your position.
> >
> > Thank you, for admitting your failure to provide honest, straight
answers
> > when it would tend to, in your view, hurt your position as it appears
that
> > you have done before.
>
> Uh? Excuse me, but I have admitted no such thing, and your attempt to
> fool
> anyone into believing I did does nothing but show you as a troll.
>
> I said specifically that the analogy doesn't fit the KDE situation.
> I refuse to state a position regarding a flawed analogy, because I know
> you will just assume the analogy was right and hit me in the head,
> applying my comment to the flawed analogy as if I accepted it was true.
A straight forward and honest answer to this exaple would have been, yes.
But instead you refused to answer; because as you stated, 'because you will
try to use that as "proof" of your position'. That means that you feared
the repercussions on your position of a "yes" answer and you knew that a
"no" answer was not possible. Your wording of your statement implies that
your willing to shape your answers to fit into your point instead of the
truth.
> > If you are afraid that this example that I provided
> > would could be used as evidence against your position then, perhaps I
> > accidently cut too close to the bone. I intended to use this as an
example
> > of a conflict of interest and nothing more.
>
> I just said I believe your analogy to be flawed, nothing else. If
> to you that's an acceptance of guilt, you are unable to read.
That is your error. That example was not intended as an anology of
anything, it intended as an example of a conflict of interest and nothing
more. Up to that time there was some disagreement by various individulals
in this discussion as to just what does "a conflict of interest" means. I
provided a concrete example of one for the purpose permiting us all to agree
on the meaning of the term. There was no ulterior motive intended with that
example. That is was it was and example and not an anaology.
> > Since it seem I have hit on to something here that disturbes you in this
> > example, perhaps it is time for you to reevaluate your position and/or
> > reasoning in the matter.
>
> Perhaps it's time for you to read my posts before answering them,
> and to stop acting as a prosecutor.
Are you getting a persecution complex? I am not interested in prosecuting
or persecuting anyone only getting to the truth. Anyone who does not wish
to participate does not have to continue posting to this discussion.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:20:08 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:42:40 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >> The analogy doesn't fit the KDE case, so I refuse to answer your
> >> question,
> >> because you will try to use that as "proof" of your position.
> >
> >Thank you, for admitting your failure to provide honest, straight answers
> >when it would tend to, in your view, hurt your position as it appears
that
> >you have done before.
>
> Huh ? He admitted no such thing. Read his post until you understand it.
See, my reply to Roberto.
> > If you are afraid that this example that I provided
> >would could be used as evidence against your position then, perhaps I
> >accidently cut too close to the bone.
>
> Not at all. Your analogy was dismissed because it was irrelevant and
> diversionary ( as almost all analogies are ), not because it proved
> anything ( hint: analogies never can prove anything )
Now you are making the same error as Roberto, and that is you both call the
example an analogy. As I have explained in my reply to Roberto, it was
never intended as an anology of anything. For additional detail see my
reply to Roberto.
> >Since it seem I have hit on to something here that disturbes you in this
> >example,
>
> Your irrelevant and tangential discourse could be described as many
things,
> but it's not likely to disturb anyone.
My statements do seem to have disturbed both Roberto and youself enough to
respond to them.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:11:58 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
> >
> > Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
> > > >
> > > > Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >
> > > > > I honestly have no idea of what you are talking about. Maybe I am
> > > > > forgetting something, but I have no idea.
> > > >
> > > > While this may seem to be a minor issue on the surface, but your
failure
> > of
> > > > mentioning it does make it seem as though you are again being less
that
> > > > forthcomming in you facts.
> > >
> > > Or, amazingly, I had no idea MieTerra was providing (as you describe
> > > below) a <gasp> search form for kde.org!
> > > I bet there is an evil conspiracy here. And not only that, but
> > > they left me out of it! The bastards!
> >
> > To not know this it would mean that you don't use the search engine at
all.
>
> Never had, until you mentioned it.
>
> > Yet, you recommend others to use it stating would they would find with
it.
>
> Nope. Never had, either. Abstain from saying I did things I didn't do,
> please.
You *have* this very day.
You told Max in relations to www.kde.org: 'There is such a thing as "search
in page", you know.'
>
> > That would imply that you are familiar enough with the search engine
from a
> > users perpective to know would would be found by using it. Just because
a
> > datum is on the webstie does not mean that it would be located by the
search
> > engine.
>
> You are just making this up. I never told anyone to use the KDE
> website's
> search engine.
You *have* this very day.
You told Max in relations to www.kde.org: 'There is such a thing as "search
in page", you know.'
>
> > > > Your behavior seems to make it seem as though
> > > > you may feel there is something to hide considering you simple
dismisal
> > of
> > > > the KDE.org connection. You make it seem that KDE.org is totally
> > sepperate
> > > > operation by someone who *REALLY* likes KDE and sells KDE T-Shirts
from
> > a
> > > > domain with the name of KDE.org and he has also hired some KDE
> > developers.
> > >
> > > You mean kde.com?
> >
> > Yes, an example of how easy it is to confuse kde.org and kde.com.
>
> You are the only person I've seen confused about it.
>
> > > And yes, AFAIK, that *is* a totally separate
> > > operation by someone who *REALLY* likes KDE and sells KDE T-shirts
from
> > > a domain with the name of KDE.COM (not org) and he has hired some
> > > KDE developers (in the past, I don't know if he is hiring anyone now).
> > >
> > > What makes you say it is not? Just because I should have added
> > > "and provides a search form for our website"? A search form
> > > I knew nothing about and simply had no reason to hide if I did?
> >
> > Except that you have admitted that you fail to mention thing when asked
that
> > would tend to cast doubt on your position.
>
> I can't parse that. Please write in english.
It is plain enough.
>
> > > You are making amountain out of a molehill.
> >
> > As I said, "this may seem to be a minor issue on the surface".
>
> It just is a minor issue.
I did qualify my posting of the information that it could appear so.
>
> > > Apparently. Didn't knew this. You see, I have not been
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > for about 2.5 years. I do know that we can't have a search form in
> > > kde.org because of our hosting agreement (no CGIs)
> >
> > Nor am I the webmaster for kde.org either and yet I detected the
situation.
>
> Because for some reason you are in inquisitor mode.
Relax, I am not from the Holy Office.
>
> > >
> > > > Entering your first name in the text box on
> > http://www.kde.org/search.html
> > > > results in the request being redirected to this URL.
> > > >
> > > >
> >
http://www.kde.com/websites/search.php?q=Roberto&id=www.kde.org&ssites%5B%5D
> > > > =www.kde.org&noSecCookieLogon=true
> > > >
> > > > That show a precise knowledge by that page on www.kde.org of the
input
> > > > requirements of the www.kde.com search engine.
> > >
> > > Well, duh! If we gonna use their search script, we better know how to
> > > call it.
> > > Would be pretty useless otherwise.
> >
> > No, not true, you could use a link to their search page and from there
the
> > user can interact with the search engine rather than taking a change
that a
> > change to the search engine would cause the search request entered on
> > www.kde.org/search to fail--unless there is some coordination be done be
the
> > two webmasters.
>
> Of course there is coordination. "hey, [EMAIL PROTECTED], want to
> use this search form? Yeah sure!" is coordination, I guess.
As well as "what is the format of the URL to request a search so I can setup
a prompt for the search term on my web page to communicate directly with
your search engine?"
> > > > Or www.kde.org has to know the
> > > > precise contents of all the pages and documents as well as their
URL's.
> > > > The method used at www.kde.com appears to be the second of these two
> > conditions
> > > > since in fact the URL of the page retrieved when clicking on the
> > document
> > > > list return from the search is located in on the www.kde.org website
> > >
> > > You must be really ignorant about web programming ;-)
> > > I have no idea how it's implemented, but here's my guess:
> >
> > No, I am an experienced webmaster, as such, I know how easy it is to
break a
> > search or other CGI services access on your page when it needs internal
> > knowledge of the operations of an alien website and there is no
coordination
> > between those running the two sites.
>
> www.kde.org needs no internal knowledge beyond asking kde.com
> how to call the form, and saying "let me know if you change it".
Correct, an on going coordination.
> kde.com needs no internal knowledge of kde.org at all.
>
> > > www.kde.org passes the query term and the site to be searched.
> >
> > Needing kde.org to know how KDE.com requires the search request URL
> > formatted
>
> Well, duh. You know, I didn't say that the webmasters never wrote
> to each other.
Correct, coordination.
>
> > > www.kde.com has a copy of each site (they are all public).
> > > www.kde.com searches in it's local copy.
> > > www.kde.com generates the URL as relative from www.kde.org
> > > (that's just a subst in "/the/place/where/I/have/them/whatever.html"
> > > to "http://www.kde.org/whatever.html", no rocket science).
> >
> > No, not rocket science, it is computer science.
>
> It's colloquial for simple.
I understand that, however, you are glossing over too much.
> > > www.kde.com gives you a page with those links.
> > >
> > > At least that's the way I would do it.
> >
> > If that is how you would implement it, no wonder you are not the
webmaster
> > for kde.org anymore.
>
> Any better suggestions?
Build a local index of valid search terms within in the documents. So that
the search engine would not waste user time while searching all the contents
of all documents includeing html tags, white space, punctuation, and useless
words.
> > > > Since this search service is performed for The KDE project's website
by
> > > > KDE.org
> > >
> > > I suppose you mean kde.com.
> >
> > Yes.
>
> Then be more careful writing, I am not here to correct you.
Why are you here?
>
> > > > with the full knowledge of the project's webmaster, I find it
> > > > strange that KDE.org or Mieterra is not listed on
> > > > http://www.kde.org/credits.html as one of the sponsers or some other
> > similar
> > > > notation of providing service to the project. Of course the KDE
project
> > > > would not list itself or a part of itself as a sponser which lends
> > support
> > > > to the idea that KDE.org may have a closer affliation with the
project
> > than
> > > > just another sponsoring organizations.
> >
> > > No, credits.html is (AFAIK), used mostly for actual parts of KDE.
> > > I believe thanks.html would be more adequate, since that is where
> > > sponsors
> > > of this kind usually go.
> >
> > There is no listing for either MieTerra or KDE.com on www.kde.org/thanks
.
>
> Not yet. I just sent the email a few moments ago.
>
> > > For example, there you have "Many thanks to Trolltech for helping out
> > > with
> > > our DNS registration and admin. Also, thanks to Linpro for giving us
> > > free
> > > use of a virtual WWW server. "
> >
> > Trolltech is listed on both the www.kde.org/thanks and
> > www.kde.org/credits.html pages.
>
> You are right, I will ask MieTerra to be added at credits.html, too.
>
> > > I'll write to webmaster to add Mieterra there. That page has been
> > > neglected
> > > lately. In fact, I recall a message in the CVS list a couple days ago
> > > about an update to it, saying it needed more attention.
> >
> > It was last updated on September 7, 2000. That is the version I had
> > examined.
>
> Just as I said.
Yes, as you have said, "That page has been neglected" when the truth was
that it was last updated on September 7, 2000.
> > > > Note the revision of the credits page I was referring to is the one
> > dated
> > > > "Last updated on 10. August 2000." While the search page was "Last
> > update:
> > > > 09 Jun 2000".
> > >
> > > I don't see anything interesting about that.
> >
> > That is called documenting your sources of information. So, that we can
all
> > refer to the same information.
>
> Ok.
>
> > > > This website www.kde.com does not just have a connection of this
kind
> > with
> > > > www.kde.org alone, but also with, developer.kde.org,
www.konqueror.org,
> > and
> > > > koffice.kde.org.
> > >
> > > Yes, they seem to provide the search form for them too. Now, all this,
> > > while informative, has any purpose?
> >
> > Just, noting additional relations that you have overlooked in your
dismissal
> > of the connections of KDE.com to the KDE project.
>
> Ok, add it to the list. Still, so what?
>
> > > > Take a look at http://www.kde.com/press/index.php
> > > >
> > > > ----
> > > > "I am delighted that KDE.com is a very rich and useful collection of
> > > > resources related to KDE and free software in general rather than a
> > > > predominantly commercial site," said David Faure, a core developer
on
> > the
> > > > KDE team. "The vast amount of information and resources it provides,
> > which
> > > > will benefit individuals and companies alike, makes a wonderful
addition
> > to
> > > > the community resources available for KDE on the Internet."
> > > >
> > > > MieTerra is the leading company focusing exclusively on the
promotion
> > and
> > > > support of KDE. Besides providing KDE.com, MieTerra is developing a
> > number
> > > > of other KDE-related websites and is working on a number of other
> > > > KDE-related initiatives
> > > > __
> > > >
> > > > I find both "MieTerra is the leading company focusing exclusively on
the
> > > > promotion and support of KDE" and "...is working on a number of
other
> > > > KDE-related initiatives" interesting.
> > >
> > > That's PR written by MieTerra. If you look at www.thekompany.com you
> > > will find similar things.
> >
> > The question is what kind of promotions, support and other KDE-related
> > initiatives
> > are being referred to here?
>
> Ask them.
>
> > > > > Cut the crap and speak clearly instead of acting like some Flash
> > > > > Gordon serial.
> > > >
> > > > Are you assaulting the reputation of <Gasp!> Lawrence Crabbe?
> > >
> > > Yeah, Buster.
> >
> > Well, if you see me as Flash Gordon and you consider me to be a problem,
> > then who does that make you? Emperor Ming of Mango?
>
> "stop acting like a flash gordon serial". Not "stop acting like
> flash gordon". Important difference.
How can a human ack like a serial? A human can act like a character in the
serial but not the serial itself.
>
> > > > > Before? Are you saying I have lied to you? What the fuck are you
> > > > > talking about exactly?
> > > >
> > > > For one instance when it was made it clear that you did not work for
> > > > Trolltech. I asked you, "Is there any member of the KDE Project
working
> > for
> > > > Troll Tech?"; you answerd "No".
> > >
> > > I never said that AFAIR. If I did, it should be trivial for you to
> > > post a quote. I am 100% sure I didn't. I believe you must
> > > be confused and will have to apologize. Either that, or
> > > I was drunk while posting.
> >
> > Yes, it is easy to do. Here it is:
>
> Could you provide any reference I can verify? At least the message-ID.
>
> HOWEVER, I find no such post anywhere:
Can you not locate it on your news server?
>
> http://x65.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=661519995
>
> will show you the 2-before post (the one with "net/sys" in it).
>
> http://x65.deja.com/=dnc/viewthread.xp?AN=661519995
>
> Shows the thread, and shows that there were no messages in
> reply to that one.
>
> I will not say you are lying, but please give me the message-ID.
>
> In fact, I can't find no article posted by you that contains
> the word "stalling", so please also give me the Message-ID for
> your post.
>
> If I did say that, I will apologize, because I was obviously wrong.
>
> > > Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
> > > > > Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > > "T. Max Devlin" escribió:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Ok, no?" I've already said that. Why are you stalling? You
> > know I'm
> > > > > > > not going to give up, and others will provide 'alternative'
> > explanations
> > > > > > > whether you do or not. So give it up: what *are* you seeking
to
> > make
> > > > > > > money on.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My job. used to make the money as a net/sys admin at college.
> > > > > > Now I make it as technical director for a company.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I doubt they're paying your salary through philanthropic
> > > > > > > sentiment.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Indeed I work for my money, just not on KDE.
> > > > >
> > > > > From this and from a better worded reply by Dononan I take it the
you
> > > > > are not an employee of Troll Tech; however, are any other members
of
> > > > > the KDE Project employees of Troll Tech?
> > > >
> > > > No
> > >
> > > Is there any other connections between Troll Tech and the KDE Project;
or
> > > the members of the KDE Project and Troll Tech?
>
> --
> Roberto Alsina (KDE developer, MFCH)
------------------------------
From: lyttlec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun cannot use Java for their servers!!
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 01:23:55 GMT
Nik Simpson wrote:
>
> "lyttlec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Nik Simpson wrote:
> > >
> > > "lyttlec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Ok I have an app that will crash DOS, Windows 3.1, Windows 95, and
> > > > Windows 98. But no one will let me try it on their NT machine. I am
> > > > writing a new one based on a utility program provided by an OEM to be
> > > > used to upgrade their Flash BIOS. It looks all a cracker would have to
> > > > do is steal administrator privaliges in order to wipe the BIOS on an
> NT
> > > > based system. (He has to be root to do that on Linux. Same difference)
> > > >
> > >
> > > Send it me, I'll try it.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Nik Simpson
>
> > Meet me face to face and we will discuss it. I live in Arizona, but can
> > meet either here or in Las Vegas.
>
> Chicken, consider your bluff well and truly called! Why on Earth should I
> travel to Arizona to obtain a mysterious piece of software that you believe
> will trash my system. If it exists at all, zip it up and email it to me, it
> can't be that big.
>
> --
> Nik Simpson
Because I don't know you and I have seen too many script kiddies who
might use the code to do damage. If you can satisfy me that you are only
going to crash your own system, I will give you the name of the book
where the code has been published. It caused a big flap six or seven
years ago when it was first published. Nice to see nothing has been
fixed in all that time.
------------------------------
From: Seán Ó Donnchadha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:25:07 -0400
On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 00:45:04 GMT, lyttlec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Of course it is. Applications have always relied on platform services.
>
>But it has not been "normal" that you should loos control of the
>appearance, quality, performance, and behavior of your software at the
>whims of others.
>
Yes it has. In Unix for example, an unstable X server can sacrifice
all of the things you mentioned. So can a faulty kernel, a bad build
of some library you're using, etc. Every time your app invokes a
platform service, you're literally and deliberately giving up control.
>
>Modern computer science is now in its 7th decade. Up
>until the MS revolution, "normal" has been about gaining more control
>over over the appearance, quality, performance and behavior of your own
>software and reduction of sensitivity to the whims of others.
>
Are you nuts? You've got it backwards. If things were as you say,
applications would constantly be getting closer and closer to the
metal. In reality of course they're getting further and further away.
They're relying on the platform for more and more functionality, and
that's exactly the way it must be for progress to take place. This
isn't the "MS revolution"; it's common sense.
>> >
>> >The platform should *free* you to use your talents
>> >and abilities. Not make you squander them on trying to guess what some
>> >marketer thought he could con or force people into buying.
>>
>> Oh, for the love of... Could you translate that into something
>> meaningful?
>
>Tex and Latex on any Unix box vs HTML.
>Standard HTML vs. IE HTML vs. Netscape HTML.
>ANSI Standard C replacing assembly language vs. VC++.
>Java vs. anything MS.
>Open Source vs. closed source.
>GPL vs. DMCA
>DeCSS vs. DMCA
>
>Notice that all the items on the left increase your freedom compared to
>the things on the right.
>
We'll just see about that.
>
>For example Standard HTML reaches a broader
>audiance than either IE HTML or Netscape HTML
>
#ifdef DEVILS_ADVOCATE
Yeah, but developers can't do as much with Standard HTML as they can
with the others. So it actually *REDUCES* their freedom.
#endif // DEVILS_ADVOCATE
See, there's two sides to every issue. The way I see it is that
"Standard HTML" is a smaller range of choices than "Standard HTML, IE
HTML, or Navigator HTML", so the presence of the latter two can only
be a Good Thing (tm). Mine is obviously a developer's point of view.
>
>and is in fact easier to write and more secure.
>
How is that?
>
>Tex and Latex give you more control over the quality and appearance of
>your documents than HTML. If you are targeting the print media, that is
>the way to go.
>
Yeah, OK, that's nice for a random fact, but what does it have to do
with: "The platform should *free* you to use your talents and
abilities. Not make you squander them on trying to guess what some
marketer thought he could con or force people into buying"? In this
particular example, what is it that makes you squander your talents
for some marketer, Tex/Latex or HTML? How does any of this relate to
the ongoing debate concerning Microsoft?
>> >
>> >That's why I
>> >refuse to buy any OS that doesn't include a true command line interface.
>>
>> Oh, OK. That makes lots of sense. You want a command line interface
>> because reusable HTML components a-la IE force you to squander, eh,
>> what, again?
>
>Freedom, quality, portability, 12% of my market. I don't think it a good
>investment to write off 12% of my market just so I can pay more money to
>Bill Gates. I will choose the option that gets me 100% of my market for
>free, thank you. It does mean more work for me, but the marginal cost is
>way positive. At first it would seem the extra work I would have to do
>to use Linux and Java would offset the marginal profit. However, that
>extra work is offset by the decrease in time spent trying to guess the
>whims of others (programmers in Redmond).
>
So you'd rather spend time guessing the whims of Sun Microsystems?
Linus Torvalds? The Free Software Foundation? The X Consortium? The
developers of KDE, GNOME, Motif, or whatever?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: The Test: Dial-up Connections
Date: 13 Sep 2000 01:27:16 GMT
On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 00:29:18 GMT, sfcybear wrote:
>> I don't need to carry on like an obnoxious zealot to prove anything,
>> because unlike the zealots, I am content to let my contributions
>> to the community do the talking.
>
>So that's why your here, HMMMM???
For the sheer joy of bashing obnoxious zealots from both camps.
Unlike some, I don't suffer from the delusion that posting to
an advocacy group counts as contributing.
>Data has been provided, read the tread.
Not enough data. One attempted downloads on each platform is hardly
a comprehensive test. I could easily get that much variation on two
random download attempts.
I won't even start on how poorly designed the test was. This has been
discussed in the thread.
>> Well, it's the Linux zealots who are making the "claims" here, so the
>> onus is on them to submit some supporting data. Thus far, the data
>> submitted is vastly inadequate. By your absurd logic, you'd have to
>> do test that show Linux serving webpages faster to refute the
>mindcraft
>> test.
>
>
>The Linux "zelots" have provided numbers!
I didn't deny that data has been provided. I pointed out that the data
is vastly inadequate.
>of the tread! The fact is even _Linus_ says that the second Mindcraft
>test was accurate! This test showed NT as faster than Linux.
Yes, but the first Mindcraft test was not accurate. ( and while it was
necessary to conduct a subsequent test to get better numbers, it was
not necessary to run a second test to determine that the first one
was flawed )
--
Donovan
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