Linux-Advocacy Digest #636, Volume #29 Fri, 13 Oct 00 17:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Double standards around here :( (Roberto Teixeira)
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (Roberto
Alsina)
Re: Legal issues - Re: Linux DVD player! (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ))
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Double standards around here :( (2:1)
Re: Double standards around here :( ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Double standards around here :( ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Astroturfing (2:1)
Re: Astroturfing (2:1)
Re: Astroturfing (2:1)
A classic example of unfriendly Linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Roberto Teixeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Double standards around here :(
Date: 13 Oct 2000 17:45:17 -0400
>>>>> "claire" == claire lynn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
claire> It seems we have different standards around here. Someone
claire> doubts my post about Hotmail being down and the message I
claire> received.
claire> I post proof of it.
claire> Somebody else posts a message about Winvocates being paid
claire> by MS to troll this group.
Claire, the guy obviously has *no* proof that MS pays anyone to post
in this groud. IMHO, this is highly unlikely because (a) there are a
lot of people who make pro-MS posts for free and (b) I don't really
think posting pro-MS here makes any good to Microsoft. This is a Linux
advocacy newsgroup. They can post whatever they want and this will not
affect most of us.
claire> I ask for proof and get called an idiot.
You are *not* an idiot for asking for proof, of course.
claire> If you can't at least make even a lame attempt at backing
claire> up your statements, it is you who are the Astroturfer.
I have to agree with you. A lot of people come to newsgroups and
simply start saying a lot of things they have no proof of. Usually
they simply say that "it has been proved over the years" or something
like this.
claire> For all I know Kulkis is getting paid by RedHat to troll
claire> around. You certainly post quite a few messages.
Now you are being lame, really. You should not fall to this level, it
does not make any good.
claire> So where is your specific proof that winvocates in this
claire> group are getting paid by MS?
I doubt he has any proof of this.
claire> Show me somebody posting from a microsoft.com address, or
claire> listed somewhere on the net as a Microsoft employee etc.
Hmm. This does not prove anything. You can post with a Hotmail account
and be anonymous.
claire> These are specific comments that need specific facts and
claire> proof to back them up.
True.
claire> Claire
regards,
-- Roberto.
------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:53:15 -0300
El vie, 13 oct 2000, Richard escribió:
>"Donal K. Fellows" wrote:
>> In Java primitive types are objects, but instances of those types are
>> not objects. Lose one point for lack of reading comprehension.
>
>This, of course, is total bullshit.
>
>1) primitive types are not objects. What the class are they
> supposed to be of anyways?
Erm....
"I don't believe classes should exist in the system at all. New objects should
be created by copying prototypes." Richard.
Consider classes to be objects that don't belong to a class.
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Legal issues - Re: Linux DVD player!
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:53:19 GMT
In article <8s6fii$3u1$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Stuart Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <8s1a31$ebc$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > "R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard )" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:8s0kaa$9tq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > In article <8rupti$rmi$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > "Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard )" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> message
> > > > news:8rtr5m$1bn$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > > >
> > > > > Unfortunately, the MPAA is doing everything
> > > > > they can to prevent this
> > > > > thing from coming to market.
> > >
> > > Here is a bit more information:
> > >
> > > Visit:
> > > http://www.dvdcca.org/
> > >
> > > http://www.dvdcca.org/dvdcca/data/pres/cptwg_20000615.pdf
> > >
> > > Not exactly a democratic origanization:
> > >
> > > The governing board with the authority to enforce all DVD-CSS
> licenses
> > > and all claims against DVD-CSS infringment is actually the license
> > > management corporation (LLC). Not publicly held, not subject to
> > > stockholder review.
> > >
> > > The entire governing body consists of 6 voting members:
> > >
> > > Two content owners - (MPAA?).
> > > Two Software companies (Microsoft and ?).
> > > Two from the Consumer electroncs Industry (Sony and ?).
> >
> > <Snip the rest>
> >
> > Nowhere on the website, or on any of those
> > links could I find reference to MS being a member.
> > Is there somewhere which actually states the members?
Not that you can get to without committing yourself to a
nondisclosure. Be my guest.
> No reply? I'm going to assume that you made an assumption when you
> said MS were one of the software companies involved.
I did identify other links that closely identified Microsoft with
DVD-CCA, since Microsoft uses it in Windows 98 (a major selling
feature), but no direct reference that directly identifies the
two software companies.
I mentioned in another post that shortly after the release of
Windows 98, the DVD-CSS was less formalized and Microsoft and
some "third stringer" no-name company were the two identified.
Unfortunately, I didn't print it out (or any of the other 500,000
pages I've read since then), and the cool thing about web sites
is that you can remove all traces of a prior public statement.
Perhaps you'd like to prove that Microsoft is NOT the primary software
sponsor of DVD-CCA?
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
>
--
Rex Ballard - I/T Architect, MIS Director
Linux Advocate, Internet Pioneer
http://www.open4success.com
Linux - 50 million satisfied users worldwide
and growing at over 5%/month! (recalibrated 8/2/00)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,comp.lang.c,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 02:01:41 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Steve Holdoway in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>On Sun, 08 Oct 2000 02:46:43 -0400, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>
>>Said Erik Funkenbusch in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>>>"2 + 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>>news:8recrj$kmf$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>>> >That's a laugh. Ever seen some of the source to the original MacOS? It
>>>> was
>>>> >all written in Pascal. What good would that do MS, who write everything
>>>in
>>>> >Assembler at the time. Besides, Windows 1.0 was absolutely nothing like
>>>> >MacOS. If they had used the MacOS source, it would have been much much
>>>> >better.
>>
>>
>>No, I think he was right. Windows 1.0 was nothing like MacOS. It was
>>Windows 3.0 which 'copied' the MacOS desktop presentation.
>
>Windows 2.0. 3.0 almost had some individuality
Well, it is true that most of the interface in 3.0 was directly from
Win286/386 (not really 2.0). But there were several distinctive
Mac-isms implemented in 3.0, as well, which made the thing much more
usable.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:03:29 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Mike Byrns <"mike.byrns"@technologist,.com> in
comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
>> Said Mike Byrns <"mike.byrns"@technologist,.com> in
>> [...]
>> >I'd have to conclude that it's the WINE programmer's fault in not understanding the
>> >CreateWindow() interface and how to properly create a default window class of
>"EDIT".
>>
>> Whatever. That's simply more detailed evidence of how crappy Win32 is,
>> if the WINE programmers can't even get these rudimentary things to work
>> correctly.
>
>How did you "conclude" this? If the WINE programmers can't get these (very
>NON-rudimentary) things to work correctly then I think they have not done their
>homework.
>Feel free to have them mail me. I can explain the splendid logic of the WndClass.
They are only rudimentary for Microsoft; they are arbitrary to everyone
else. Obviously, MS didn't do them it in a very understandable,
efficient, or even explicable fashion, if professional developers
attempting to duplicate the behavior find it impossible. You can
explain the 'splendid logic' of the WndClass, but you can't clone it,
can you?
You pretend, because you wish to deny the harm of a monopoly, that you
don't do so because you have no need or desire to, when the fact is you
have no ability to, and those who do have both need and desire find that
it cannot be done, in the face of the hopelessly krufty 'churn-based'
anti-development that Microsoft has offered as a monopoly product. Just
because you've swallowed it hook, line, and sinker, is no reason to
attribute any objective merit to the idea.
>> [...]
>> >You should have anticipated my response to this before you wrote it Max. I think
>that
>> >the Win32 API is a many splendored thing with optimizations and nuances under the
>hood
>> >that could not have been duplicated by the WINE part-timers in the few years
>they've
>> >been working on it.
>>
>> They're not trying to duplicate the API; they're trying to support it.
>> Its MS's software that they're trying to duplicate, and the
>> 'optimizations and nuances' in the code shouldn't have anything to do
>> with it.
>
>In order to support those programs that depend on it they damn well better duplicate
>it.
As you've pointed out, they need to do more than duplicate the
documented behavior of the API, which is theoretically all that should
be required.
>One omission and that's tantamount to compatibility issues in every program that
>calls that
>broken WINE API call. You do a project like this right. Or you don't do it.
>Perhaps they
>mis-estimated the effort due to their prejudice?
Obviously; they are prejudiced to believe that Microsoft is developing
software, not simply churning a monopoly. That's why I think they
should simply decompile MS's code, no matter how many lawyers Microsoft
has, because they have a legal right to do so and it doubt Microsoft
would be able to get away with suing them, given the state of the
industry. Certainly once the remedy is in place, sometime next year.
The Win32 API will be a true 'market standard' then. I expect most
developers would prefer to avoid it, knowing (despite your
protestations, which stand alone with other dubious opinions against a
sea of knowledge and claims to the contrary, which even if they were
provided you'd refuse to consider) how krufty it is. But there is a
tremendously large installed base, and splitting up Microsoft will
demand that at least two companies are going to be trying to use the
damn API without someone else's 'inside knowledge'.
*Then* the WINE developers will most probably have the issues which are
causing them difficulty addressed, even if they don't decompile.
[...]
>> They underestimate Windows, all right, and how much anti-competitive
>> effort went into its design and development.
>
>That case that's failing now http://www.pcworld.com/news/article.asp?aid=31283 has
>very
>little to do with Windows design and development. The Windows APIs were designed to
>be
>approachable and that quality has proven it's boon. If Microsoft would have wanted no
>other ISV to program to that set of APIs don't you think they could have done a
>better job
>of obfuscation than the MSDN library freely available on the Internet?
Not without making obvious the fact that they were acting
anti-competitively in every way they could to entrench, maintain, and
expand an illegal monopoly. The Windows APIs were designed to promote
developer lock-in, and that quality has proven its anti-competitive
nature.
>From your link:
"Time is traditionally a monopolist's best friend. Regardless whether
the appellate court agrees that the company illegally used its monopoly
power, changes in the market and technologies could make today's remedy
outdated by 2002."
As outdated as it would have been in 1987? No, time stands still when
you have a monopoly; software is developed regressively, because
anti-competitive strategies allow for it, and a monopoly allows for
anti-competitive strategies to be 'successful' in extracting (illegal)
profits. And, in fact, the industry isn't necessarily waiting for MS to
exhaust its last gasp efforts to clear its name and pretend it is a
competitive company. The three largest OEMs now offer Linux pre-loaded
on workstation-class systems, Linux support is considered valid by both
the technically experienced and the business suits (the last courtesy of
the Red Hat IPO), and IBM considers Linux to be the equivalent not of
OS/2, but the Internet, in terms of their strategic approach. It is a
market opportunity in which honest competitive effort is the fuel for
rapid innovation and development.
>Apart from your
>opinion that Microsoft forces developers to program to their APIs can you show me any
>examples outside of "Undocumented Widows". What would you use PrestoChangoSelector()
>(win16) or BozoLivesHere() (also win16) for in programming a market leading
>application,
>Max?
I don't know what the hell you're talking about, Mike, and your comments
are entirely irrelevant. Apart from your 'opinion' (which I can't
honestly verify is more than contrary posturing by a bright but
wrong-headed so-and-so), I don't see why "Undocumented Windows" should
be exempt from examination. But how's this:
IV.
THE MIDDLEWARE THREATS
68. Middleware technologies, as previously noted, have the potential to
weaken the applications barrier to entry. Microsoft was apprehensive
that the APIs exposed by middleware technologies would attract so much
developer interest, and would become so numerous and varied, that there
would arise a substantial and growing number of full-featured
applications that relied largely, or even wholly, on middleware APIs.
The applications relying largely on middleware APIs would potentially be
relatively easy to port from one operating system to another. The
applications relying exclusively on middleware APIs would run, as
written, on any operating system hosting the requisite middleware. So
the more popular middleware became and the more APIs it exposed, the
more the positive feedback loop that sustains the applications barrier
to entry would dissipate. Microsoft was concerned with middleware as a
category of software; each type of middleware contributed to the threat
posed by the entire category. At the same time, Microsoft focused its
antipathy on two incarnations of middleware that, working together, had
the potential to weaken the applications barrier severely without the
assistance of any other middleware. These were Netscape's Web browser
and Sun's implementation of the Java technologies.
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm#iiii
>> Like many application
>> developers who thought they could compete with Microsoft applications,
>> they are finding out that 'churn',
>
>Make that innovation. If you can't keep up try another business.
LOLROTFLMAO.
>> obfuscation,
>
>MSDN, Max. That's where I got all my "trivial" knowledge. See
>http://www.msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp. Start reading. Stop when you
>feel the
>obfuscation myth passing. Maybe you'll learn something.
Well, since the conviction that Microsoft is doing a piss-poor job of
building a valid API specification for the industry, and purposefully
obfuscating everything they can to prevent competition, I learn quite a
bit before the feeling of nausea overcomes me and I stop reading. You
honestly think I've never read Microsoft documentation, or don't
understand an API spec, just because I'm not a developer who's keen-o on
MS? Get real, Mike.
>> and counter-productive
>> complexity
>
>Um, where can I find a comprehensive X Window System programming site like MSDN?
Um, what does that have to do with the price of Windows in China?
>> make it all but impossible to support the Win32 API,
>
>You seem to ignore the fact that most software companies do support this "impossible"
>API
>:-)
Once, again, you've shown your incompetence or dishonesty in forgetting
that we're talking about 'supporting it' in a way which nobody but
Microsoft does; writing an OS to provide it to applications.
>> unless
>> you're just foolish, and go with One Microsoft Way.
>
>Or One Infinite Loop or 2600 Meridian Parkway. I have to laugh at how they got that
>(alt.)2600 address. :-) And what does Meridian mean, Max? They are all trying to be
>Microsoft. And you'd hate them just as much as Microsoft if they got there. It's
>your
>nature...
They wouldn't get there, I should hope. Yes, it is a danger that a
successful company will use their market power to monopolize,
successfully or not, and thus break the law. But its simply Microsoft's
nature; they've never done anything else.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
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------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Double standards around here :(
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:11:21 +0100
> For all I know Kulkis is getting paid by RedHat to troll around. You
> certainly post quite a few messages.
I hope not.
I personally don't believe MS pay anyone: they don't need to. There are
enough people who do it for free.
Much the same as Jerry Springer. When he was speaking over here, he was
asked if he hired actors. He replied (I paraphrase) "Why do I need to
when there are plenty of screwed up people to do it for free". The same
applies (though not all MS advocates are screwed up).
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Double standards around here :(
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:21:51 GMT
On 13 Oct 2000 17:45:17 -0400, Roberto Teixeira
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
They certainly wouldn't want me on the payroll :)
>I have to agree with you. A lot of people come to newsgroups and
>simply start saying a lot of things they have no proof of. Usually
>they simply say that "it has been proved over the years" or something
>like this.
I realize this and I am proven guilty of making generalizations all
the time. I take my lumps, concede if I have been proven wrong and
move onward.
>Now you are being lame, really. You should not fall to this level, it
>does not make any good.
I Know. I was just trying to tweak him :)
> claire> So where is your specific proof that winvocates in this
> claire> group are getting paid by MS?
>
>I doubt he has any proof of this.
I'm not saying there aren't paid MS shills, I am sure that there are.
When I was advocating OS/2 I was convinced that the press and
especially ZD and Gartner were paid by MS to undermine OS/2.
Maybe it was true, I don't know. The last place I would look for
shills would be an advocacy group though. Nobody in her right mind
takes this stuff seriously.
>Hmm. This does not prove anything. You can post with a Hotmail account
>and be anonymous.
True. I was just using it as an example.
I, would love to see MS exposed for some more dirty tactics like
Kulkis refers to. If he has some concrete proof, he should post it
everywhere because I don't like dirty pool. I lived through the 1970's
and 1980's and 1990's (especially), and saw first hand the Stac suit,
the DRDOS undermining, the "it isn't done till Lotus won't run" crap
dished out by MS.
I am just asking for some proof of Kulkis's claims, just like I get
asked for proof of mine. This is not an opinion like "Windows sucks,
or Linux does or whatever", it is a direct statement.
Suppose "I" said Linux crashes continuously when running on Duron
chips and then did not provide any proof?
Sincerely,
claire
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Double standards around here :(
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:24:40 GMT
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:11:21 +0100, 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> For all I know Kulkis is getting paid by RedHat to troll around. You
>> certainly post quite a few messages.
>I hope not.
So do I, but based on his posting history, if "I" were running RedHat
he would be the last person I would hire to troll :)
>I personally don't believe MS pay anyone: they don't need to. There are
>enough people who do it for free.
I have my doubts when it comes to the press and critics in particular.
I can't prove anything though, so I don't make statements in public
professing facts.
>Much the same as Jerry Springer. When he was speaking over here, he was
>asked if he hired actors. He replied (I paraphrase) "Why do I need to
>when there are plenty of screwed up people to do it for free". The same
>applies (though not all MS advocates are screwed up).
Maybe Springer will put Jedi, Kulkis, Drestin and me on one of his
show's?
claire
>-Ed
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:20:56 +0100
> What's wrong with Windows 2000? Surely you must acknowledge that Microsoft
> has the freedom to innovate, building on the strengths of Windows NT Server
> 4.0, the Windows 2000 Server Family delivers three increasingly powerful
> products that set a new standard for reliability and scalability. The
> Windows 2000 Server Family also demonstrates how well an operating system
> can be integrated with a standards-based directory, Web, application,
> network, file and print services, and end-to-end management. This
> combination of reliability and functionality provides the best foundation
> for integrating your business with the Internet.
I'm not paranoid, and I don't believe that MS needs (or does) pay for
people to buts, but this sounds like a sales pitch.
How do the Win2k servers keep increasing in power?
Standards based directory?
The OS isn't integreated with apps. If it is, then they're part of the
OS, not apps.
end-to-end management? What precisely is thst?
Win2K demonstrates no better than any other Microsoft OS or (recent)
UNIX the ability of an operating system to be integrated with a network.
Functionality? What functionality in particular. All OSs are functional
to some degree.
Please, if you reply, speak normally.
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:22:24 +0100
JS/PL wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>
> > > What's wrong with Windows 2000?
> >
> > Stabilty.
> >
> > Still not ready for prime time.
>
> My Linux apps crash nearly every time, shit, half of them won't even start.
>
> My Win2K apps never crash. Who's not ready for prime time?
Oh come on. I know how hard it is to rigorousl proove something, but you
don't even provide a shread of anecdotal evidence. If I complained that
mk Win2K apps crashed *all* the time, you would say that something was
wrong. Use your brain...
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:24:44 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I like your signature :)
>
> Only MS products I use are Windows and Flight Simulator.
> I tried Office once and spent a week trying to extract it from my
> system.
> Never again.
If you *need* it, it runs well on wine (except printing*). Can't do any
damage from there...
*I'm on a 6 month old build.
Microft Minesweeper seems about OK :-)
-Ed
> claire
>
> On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:06:57 GMT,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin) wrote:
>
> >Most of the vocal and insulting Linux advocates don't use their real names
> >- are you saying they should be ashamed of themselves too?
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: A classic example of unfriendly Linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:34:38 GMT
Here is a post from the firewall group. I have erased the names to
protect the innocent.
>Looks like you're missing the IPs for your DNS server(s). Your ISP
>may be
>giving your RH box an IP address, are they also dynamically giving you
>the
>DNS numbers? If so, the next step is make sure your W98 clients are
>getting the LAN side IP address of your RH box as their gateway
>address.
>
>--
>
>"xxxxxxxxx" <xxxxxx@..com> wrote in message
>news:strF5.2595$7h7.45971@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx..
>> Hey to all,
>> I know this is a perennial post here, but I'm not finding
>the info
>> that I need (or at least not in a way that I understand). I'm
>setting up a
>> RedHat 6.1 firewall (first experience with Linux, I have a couple of
>years
>> of experience networking with M$) through a cable modem. RedHat is
>> receiving an IP from my ISP's server, and logging in for me. I have
>DHCPD
>> configured, so RH is assigning my W98 clients IPs, (my subnet is a
>class A
>> w/ a netmask of 255.255.255.0) and those boxes can ping one another.
>My
>> goal is to have a firewall that passes web pages, email & FTP on to
>my
>> client machines.
>> Earlier today, I used EMACS to creat a
>"/etc/rc.d/rc.modules" file
>> containing...
>>
>> /sbin/modprobe ip_masq_cuseeme
>> /sbin/modprobe ip_masq_irc
>> /sbin/modprobe ip_masq_ftp
>> /sbin/modprobe ip_masq_raudio
>> /sbin/modprobe ip_masq_quake
>> /sbin/modprobe ip_masq_vdolive
>> /sbin/modprobe ip_masq_mfw
>> /sbin/modprobe ip_masq_user
>> /sbin/modprobe ip_masq_autofw
>> /sbin/modprobe ip_masq_portfw
>>
>> Then, at a prompt I typed
>>
>> /sbin/ipchains -P forward DENY
>> /sbin/ipchains -A forward -j MASQ -s 12.34.56.0/24 -d 0.0.0.0/0
>>
>> Now I can ping IP addresses through the Linux box, but I can't ping
>FQDN's,
>> and I can't pull up web pages. I also tried FTP, nogo. So, what
>gives?
>> What am I overlooking? I obtained all of this info from here
>> (http://www.vortech.net/rrlinux/redmasq.htm). I did read the
>IPCHAINS HOWTO
>> & scanned through the MAN pages for ipchains, and either I'm
>overlooking the
>> answer, or neither contains what I'm looking for.
>> Can someone help? Also, how will I need to configure my
>browser
>> when I'm ready to surf? Will I put the IP address of the close side
>of my
>> router & port 80 in the proxy info box, or do I just leave that
>blank?
>> Thanks in advance for any assistance.
>>
>>
>> -xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
>> Linux Wannabe
This is a piece of cake with either Norton Firewall, ZoneAlarm (free)
or BlackIce or SonicWall which I believe is also free for personal
use.
Install it and it will do exactly what this poor soul is trying to do
as well as a hell of a lot more.
I have to wonder how many hours this person played with Emacs to even
get this far?
claire
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