Linux-Advocacy Digest #638, Volume #29 Fri, 13 Oct 00 18:13:07 EDT
Contents:
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux (Roberto Alsina)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: What I would like to see in an OS: ("MH")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Weevil")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Need expert for info on troubleshooting Linux ("Seth S.")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: What I would like to see in an OS: ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Need expert for info on troubleshooting Linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Anybody want to test a widget? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:16:18 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Mike Byrns <"mike.byrns"@technologist,.com> in
comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"Frédéric G. MARAND" wrote:
>
>> Can you seriously write that ?
>>
>> Or add something like "..part of the time" .
>>
>> John Lockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit dans le message :
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > On Sun, 08 Oct 2000 22:25:25 -0400, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> [...]
>> > 1) Windows works.
>> [...]
>
>Windows works for business almost all of the time.
In business, almost all of the time is never good enough.
>Start talking 9s on
>the desktop and you'll find that it's the best desktop OS out there.
No, you'll find its the most common desktop out there. The only reason
it isn't being entirely replaced with W2K is Microsoft wants to maintain
monopoly pricing. The only reason it isn't being entirely replaced with
Linux is because Microsoft has the rest of the industry locked in to its
APIs, its licensing, or its applications.
>That's why it's the most popular OS for the desktop.
Or maybe its the most popular, and that's why its the best. Or maybe
its just monopoly crapware, and you prove yourself a lunatic by
pretending that the monopoly outcome was executed using anti-competitive
and illegal business practices, not by technical development; Microsoft
develops to increase lock-in, not to improve their product.
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2000/02/07/schulman.html
http://m2.aol.com/machcu/mspquotes.html
http://www.drdos.com/fullstory/dsprgmnt.html
http://www.ddj.com/articles/1993/9309/9309d/9309d.htm#0272_000e
http://www4.bluemountain.com/home/ImportantNotice.html?020399
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f4400/4469.htm
>On the server
>Windows 2000 has made innovative inroads into the UNIX space at a
>fraction of the cost.
A fraction of what cost? Linux use is growing, probably more than W2K
use, at least in the areas of the business world that Microsoft doesn't
have a particularly choice bit of leverage with which to
anti-competitively 'promote' their crapware.
>It will only get better from here.
Why is that, exactly?
>Linux is
>great! Only because Microsoft works best under pressure.
Microsoft doesn't work; they monopolize. If Linux is great, and free,
and getting widely supported, then basically the only thing maintaining
any market at all for Windows of any flavor is the application barrier,
which increases with every bit of 'innovative inroad' you
mischaracterize as competitive development, correct?
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:18:52 -0300
El vie, 13 oct 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
>Here is a post from the firewall group. I have erased the names to
>protect the innocent.
Allow me to give you the idiot-proof version of how to make a masquerading
firewall between a LAN and the internet through a dialup link using Linux.
Needed software: wvdial and ipchains.
Step 1: Get the linux computer link up to your ISP.
Use wvdialconf to autodetect your modem and pre-setup stuff,
wvdialconf /etc/wvdial.conf
Edit wvdial.conf, and put there the phone number, your user name, and the
password.
Edit /etc/ppp/options , and add usepeerdns (this takes care of the trouble this
guy had, BTW).
Connect using wvdial. Make sure it works.
Step 2: Configure a masquerading firewall.
The command for this is as follows
ipchains -A forward -s 10.0.0.0/255.255.255.0 -j MASQ
Replace 10.4.0.0 with your real network and netmask. Simpler syntax:
ipchains -A forward -s 10.0.0.0/24 -j MASQ
Step 3: Configure a DNS server in the gateway so that the inner net has DNS
This varies by distribution, butr usually is as running ntsysv, and checking
"named". This will configure the default, which is a simple caching no-domain
DNS server.
Step 4: Configure workstations
On each windows machine, set the default gateway and DNS server options to
point to the linux box. Alternately, you could configure DHCP on linux and let
them configure themselves.
Step 5: Automatize the firewall
Put the ipchains command in /etc/ppp/ip-up, so it executes automatically
whenever wvdial connects.
Enjoy.
All this should not take over 5 minutes or so. If you can configure a simple
firewall using a commercial product in a minute, it would only save you...
about 4.
[snip other stuff]
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:23:14 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Mike Byrns <"mike.byrns"@technologist,.com> in
comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
>> Said John Lockwood in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>> >On Sun, 08 Oct 2000 22:25:25 -0400, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >><Grin>
>> >>
>> >>You missed the argument completely, Mike. Yes, I said that Win32 is a
>> >>piece of crap, because WINE emulates Win32, and the WINE programmers
>> >>can't support Notepad, a positively trivial Windows program.
>> >
>> >Let's see:
>> >
>> >1) Windows works.
>> >2) Notepad works on NT, Win98, Windows 3x, etc.
>> >3) Notepad is a trivial windows application. (Defined as an
>> >application a good Windows programmer could complete in a week or
>> >two).
>> >4) Notepad and thousands of other working applications are coded to
>> >the Windows API.
>> >5) Notepad doesn't work on WINE.
>> >
>> >Therefore WIN32 is a piece of crap?
>>
>> Yes.
>
>You wouldn't dare pull that shit with me, Devlin. Give John the courtesy of
>something more than that weak response. He knows his stuff -- I can tell.
But you already argued the same case, and got nowhere with it. He can
just look up those responses, can't he?
>> >Well, I've never used WINE, but the conclusion I'd be more likely to
>> >reach given the above is that your premise that WINE emulates Windows
>> >is false.
>>
>> Therefore Win32 is a piece of crap.
>
>Care to stretch a bit more?
No, still a re-statement of the same basic premise which I've supported:
Windows APIs are crappy, and that's what makes them hard to emulate.
Or, rather, that they are hard to emulate, and therefore are crappy.
Take your pick.
>> I'm not going to impugn the
>> capabilities of a developer I do not have knowledge of.
>
>Then don't do so for the thousands that wrote Windows.
I don't. Just the businessmen and those few programmers who's
development strategy involved making their product anti-competitive,
rather than competitive. Folks like AaronR, who wrote the
double-encrypted, hidden AARD code to FUD DR-DOS out of the market.
>> All the
>> WinTrolls seem pretty quick to pronounce the WINE team as incompetent or
>> unknowledgeable, but that isn't surprising.
>
>You are right in that. It's hard t believe that the part-time rag-tags can
>do in a couple of years what the Carnegie-Mellon grads and long term
>professionals have done in 25.
It took CMU grads to make a platform so bad that other's can't get a
bog-standard text editor to work on it?
>> Logically, if there is a
>> choice between the factual knowledge that MS designs their stuff with
>> anti-competitive intent (that means they purposefully make it less
>> valuable or sub-optimal in order to enhance their profits) and an
>> assumption that a programmer is not competent, I'd say the facts
>> outweigh the supposition.
>
>Prove it or drop it. This is getting really old, Max.
You are getting really old, Mike. The monopoly crapware is getting
really old. The industry is getting really old, waiting around for the
government to follow through on its mandate to ensure free markets which
provide for productive competition and innovation.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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------------------------------
From: "MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in an OS:
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:22:19 -0400
The FIRST thing I would LOVE to see in an OS is NO ADVOCACY news group for
it.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:28:14 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said westprog 2000 in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>The problem with Win-32 is not that it provides rich functionality - it
>is that it does so in such a disorganised and sloppy way. This is
>something MS belatedly realised - some later extension API's are more
>self-contained, and use a COM interface rather than the less flexible
>DLL's.
I don't think this is a case of 'belated realization'. They simply
couldn't get away with being as obvious in their implementation of
sub-optimal mechanisms to prevent anyone from being able to compete
effectively against the monopoly. There is evidence in the early Win3.1
communications, courtesy of the Caldera case, that Microsoft was
planning, consciously, to produce things in a 'disorganized and sloppy
way', because it would enhance their monopoly power by allowing them to
direct development of third parties.
>.NET is another attempt to get it right, after making a mess of MFC and
>Win-32. The language-neutral feature is promising. Making Windows (all
>flavours) so strongly C-oriented was one of the many things MS blindly
>copied from Unix which turned out to be a bad idea.
Funny; it seems to work reasonably well for Unix. MFC and Win-32
weren't 'messes'; they performed their function admirably. Windows is
still a monopoly, isn't it? I'm not sure if .NET is a hail-mary pass,
or a contingency plan, but its definitely vapor and bullshit. A
platform-neutral feature would be promising; everything else is just an
excuse for exorbitant profits on crappy development.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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------------------------------
From: "Weevil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:21:25 -0500
T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Weevil in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> [...]
> >Theories? What theories? There are thousands of internal Microsoft
emails,
> >available *online* (thanks to sunshine laws and a smart judge or two),
that
> >change it from "conspiracy" to "recorded history". Everything MS does is
> >done to stifle competition and increase profits (not a bad thing in
itself,
> >of course).
>
> Actually, it is a bad thing, and is illegal for that very reason. You
> earn profits by engaging in competition, not by stifling it. Unless
> you're a criminal monopolist.
>
The parenthetical phrase referred to increasing profits, which again, is not
a bad thing. To avoid confusion, I probably should have phrased it like
this: "...to increase profits (not a bad thing in itself, of course) and to
stifle competition." My only defense is that I write this stuff on the fly
and spend little time editing.
jwb
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:30:44 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Erik Funkenbusch in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"Peter da Silva" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:8rtf3u$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> John Lockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > 3) Notepad is a trivial windows application. (Defined as an
>> > application a good Windows programmer could complete in a week or
>> > two).
>>
>> Are you saying that you would expect a good Windows programmer to take a
>> week or two to implement Notepad? Is that a reasonable estimate of the
>> time it would take for a program like that?
>
>Actually, Notepad is an app that should only take any decent developer a few
>hours to write.
>
>The vast majority of notepad's functionality is provided by the windows edit
>control. The rest is just writing the text to disk, Searching in the text,
>and adding a help box.
And it is writing the windows edit control which is the topic of
discussion, or at least it was originally. Not writing the notepad app.
It is the windows edit control being crap which makes the WINE
developer's lives difficult, though Notepad itself is pretty crappy,
too.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:31:52 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Simon Cooke in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>It's only the really bog-standard simple case that doesn't have an easy way
>to do it.
Now, why would that be?
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
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------------------------------
From: "Seth S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Need expert for info on troubleshooting Linux
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:39:46 -0700
Hi,
I'm in desperate need of an expert or two to help me develop an article on
troubleshooting (or optimizing) RedHat Linux 7. If anyone thinks they can
help, or knows of someone who can, please email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks,
--
Seth Short
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:35:18 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said John Lockwood in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 01:50:57 -0500, "Erik Funkenbusch"
[...]
>>Well, I guess if you'd rather live in a fantasy world, be my guest.
>
>No, I prefer to live in a world where the estimate includes the whole
>task, and good fellowship and mutual respect dictate that it not be
>minutely shredded -- when it wasn't even relevant to the original
>argument to begin with -- by insensitive dorks whose only motivation
>is to promote such modest wits as they imagine themselves to possess.
>Unfortunately, to the contrary, THAT world is a fantasy -- the real
>world, peopled as it is with the likes of you, is a poor substitute.
CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 21:33:36 GMT
I have sent your post to that person and thank you, but my point is
this.
"You" know how to do this stuff.
He, and just about every other newbie who tries Linux does not. Notice
his comment about this topic being rehashed a lot? That's because it
is NOT easy compared to Windows.
Under Windows with Norton or BlackIce or ZoneAlarm, this is trivial,
and he doesn't have to worry about screwing up and leaving himself
open to attack because of his ignorance of the subject. It's all be
taken care of by the experts although he is free to modify any
parameter he wishes freely.
It's not that it "can't" be done under Linux, it's just figuring out
where the documentation is that explains HOW to do it.
And then, being able to understand how to implement the changes.
Claire
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:18:52 -0300, Roberto Alsina
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>El vie, 13 oct 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
>>Here is a post from the firewall group. I have erased the names to
>>protect the innocent.
>
>Allow me to give you the idiot-proof version of how to make a masquerading
>firewall between a LAN and the internet through a dialup link using Linux.
>
>Needed software: wvdial and ipchains.
>
>Step 1: Get the linux computer link up to your ISP.
>
>Use wvdialconf to autodetect your modem and pre-setup stuff,
>
> wvdialconf /etc/wvdial.conf
>
>Edit wvdial.conf, and put there the phone number, your user name, and the
>password.
>
>Edit /etc/ppp/options , and add usepeerdns (this takes care of the trouble this
>guy had, BTW).
>
>Connect using wvdial. Make sure it works.
>
>Step 2: Configure a masquerading firewall.
>
>The command for this is as follows
>
>ipchains -A forward -s 10.0.0.0/255.255.255.0 -j MASQ
>
>Replace 10.4.0.0 with your real network and netmask. Simpler syntax:
>
>ipchains -A forward -s 10.0.0.0/24 -j MASQ
>
>Step 3: Configure a DNS server in the gateway so that the inner net has DNS
>
>This varies by distribution, butr usually is as running ntsysv, and checking
>"named". This will configure the default, which is a simple caching no-domain
>DNS server.
>
>Step 4: Configure workstations
>
>On each windows machine, set the default gateway and DNS server options to
>point to the linux box. Alternately, you could configure DHCP on linux and let
>them configure themselves.
>
>Step 5: Automatize the firewall
>
>Put the ipchains command in /etc/ppp/ip-up, so it executes automatically
>whenever wvdial connects.
>
>Enjoy.
>
>All this should not take over 5 minutes or so. If you can configure a simple
>firewall using a commercial product in a minute, it would only save you...
>about 4.
>
>[snip other stuff]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in an OS:
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 21:34:29 GMT
Try OS/400.
claire
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:22:19 -0400, "MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The FIRST thing I would LOVE to see in an OS is NO ADVOCACY news group for
>it.
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Need expert for info on troubleshooting Linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 21:39:42 GMT
I thought it came optimized perfectly right out of the box and ready
to boot after which you should not have to reboot it for at least 28
months or so baring act's of God and such?
Could I be wrong here?
claire
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:39:46 -0700, "Seth S."
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm in desperate need of an expert or two to help me develop an article on
>troubleshooting (or optimizing) RedHat Linux 7. If anyone thinks they can
>help, or knows of someone who can, please email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Thanks,
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:45:10 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Richard in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>> Everything you apparently think is 'known' about Neanderthals seems to
>> be supposition from about ten years ago. Nobody claims to know whether
>> "we" killed *or* interbred with Neanderthals, or even how divergent they
>> were from homo sapiens.
>
>More like three years ago. And what you wrote about whether or
>not neanderthals were a different species is irrelevant to the
>process of *forming* a new species; ie, *speciation*. Differences
>between subgroups increase, they don't decrease (with one or two
>exceptions).
Unless they interbreed, you see. Thus, your point about speciation is
what is irrelevant, not my statement. And the fact that you learned
this knowledge three years ago is not to say that it wasn't the
suppositions of real biologists and paleontologists ten years ago.
>> Roberto is certainly right on this issue. It pretty much seems 'quite
>> the bit of fishy' to just about everyone outside your head, Richard.
>
>My what big ego you have. So you and Roberto are "everyone" now?
No, but he is more reasonable a man than you are, and I am more
reasonable a man than he is, and feel confident that many if not most
reasonable people reading all of our posts would agree with me. I
haven't seen anyone who doesn't recognize that your extravagant and
non-empirical rantings are fishy, outside of your head, Richard.
>> >I don't much care. Nor do I care to continue this discussion with you.
>>
>> So you are a sham after all, Richard?
>
>I don't much care whether I spell the guy's name correctly.
And for this reason you refuse to discuss his theorem?
>> I was really looking forward to some serious Gödel Theorem clashing.
>
>I'm not arguing about the meaning of the incompleness theorem with
>someone who refuses to think in terms of abstractions.
Yes, it seems oddly coincidental that you again find some entirely
pretextual excuse to refuse to discuss something which you are
apparently unable to hold up your end of a discussion in. It is not I
that has difficulty dealing with abstractions and metaphors, Richard;
stop projecting.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
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======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:48:37 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Roberto Alsina in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>El lun, 09 oct 2000, Richard escribió:
[...]
>>Geez, doesn't seem to fit Vulcans, does it?
>
>Why? Vulcans could have emotional capacity and be repressing it through
>training,
And, in point of fact, that is the premise of the Vulcan character.
Spock had increased difficulty, due to his 'half human' background, but
the Vulcans themselves adopted their 'logic' because they actually have
very great emotional capacity, at least in terms of aggression.
[...]
>><rolleyes> They're not commenting on the genetic difference between
>>humans and neanderthals, they're commenting on the common picture of
>>neanderthals among the general population as stupid brutes.
>
>They are commenting on the appearance of neanderthals. Since that's all we have
>to base our guess of their genetical differences, it does matter.
[...]
>>> >Your idiocy had gotten old to me maybe two weeks ago.
>>>
>>> Then why do you bother?
>>
>>Perversity.
>
>So, you are a pervert?
[...]
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Anybody want to test a widget?
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 21:40:16 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> If you post your email on several lines (like in my sig) it seems to
> be worm free.
Thanks!
wrinkledshirt
@
hotmail
.
com
(sorry, but I still need the evil empire for some things)
> Sorry i can't help, though.
Rat bastard.
-ws
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 21:44:24 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Here is a post from the firewall group. I have erased the names to
> protect the innocent.
<snip>
> claire
Saw that you left your own name in there, though. You know, if you quit
being such a whore for the great corporations out there, it might go a
long way to curing your guilty conscience...
Just a thought. You know, in case you needed a classic example of
unfriendly Linux users, too.
-ws
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
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******************************
