Linux-Advocacy Digest #721, Volume #29 Wed, 18 Oct 00 03:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: To all you WinTrolls (DiscoTiki)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Claire Lynn (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:02:02 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Simon Cooke in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> Alternately, a student or two will get together (or not) and
>> just implement it themselves. THIS is also how the world works.
>
>Indeed. But that only applies if you're not talking about economic realities
>of software development, and throw the whole economic side of the system out
>of the Window -- which is all that GPL/Freeware/whatever does. It just
>removes that question from the equation entirely.
Which would seem to suggest that there is no necessity for the economic
side of it to enter the equation at all.
>Which also means it's completely irrelevant to mine & Max's argument.
True, but it is a telling point. In addition to supporting Jedi's
perspective, Linux also puts the lie to all your other vaunted defenses
of Microsoft's monopoly.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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From: DiscoTiki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: To all you WinTrolls
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 05:46:17 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
John Sanders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "David.L" wrote:
> >
> > This is to all of you morons who write posts such as: "Linux sucks",
> > "Windows Rulez" and such in linux newsgroups.
> >
-=snip=-
I am usually averse to jumping into the middle of a flame war, hell, I
try to stay away from heated debates. Since choices in operating system
are as dear to people as politics, religion, the sexes, and
micro-breweries. But after reading the entire thread, I feel compelled
to get into this one. If for no other reason, than to hopefully get some
useful info from the group....
I first started playing with computers when my mother got the computer
add-on for my colecovision (chronologically, it was pong, atari, and
intellivision before that <grin>). I then got an Atari 600, an Apple IIe
(to match the ones in my high school computer classes), an Apple IIc,
and then an 8086. The rest is all PCs. I've ran Linux off and on for
varying uses since the Mother's day RedHat distro. I am currently an MIS
director for a medium sized company in southern Florida. At work and at
home, I use Apache, Squid, IPChains and cgi scripts for port forwarding,
proxy caching firewalls (Squid is better than Cybersitter anyday, and
the kids use the proxy through the cable modem).
Off and on since 91, I have tried to use Linux on my desktop, but it
seems that I always have unsupported hardware. Right now, I am running a
Real Magic hollywood Plus DVD card, a Logitech webcam, and a Promise
Ultra100 Controller card. I have been unable to find stable drivers for
any of these items, so I am still dual booting Win2k Pro. I cannot STAND
NN, but have to use it. I design web pages on the side, and though I
like Lynx when I want to speed browse, it does me no good when designing
web pages. Course, neither does NN. It massacres every table, ignores
W3C tags, and generally sucks, but that is a topic for a flame war in a
different newsgroup, suffice it to say I am holding out hope for Opera,
my favorite PC browser ;-).
For what it's worth, I guess I would admit to being a Wintroll, but
begrudgingly. I WANT linux to replace Windows in ANY and EVERY form and
fashion. I agree that the "Reboot if you cannot get it to respond" is
crap, and being an MIS director, I direct people to perform the three
finger salute all of the time. I also think that NT, 9x, and any version
of windows prior to 95 are crap. I am constantly mediating the ongoing
battle between HP printer drivers, and NT SP6, for those that would tend
to blame this on drivers, HP does not agree.... but M$ does.
I do believe that M$ has gotten it almost right with 2k. This does
not change my desire to get rid of Windows completely, but the lack of
support for my other hardware assures that Windows2k will be on my Hdd
for a while. I do my work in Win2k, with Homesite, Paint Shop Pro, and
Office 2000, and then I reboot, tell the BIOS to boot the IDE instead of
the promise card, and boot Mandrake 7.1 to play...
I do think that it is a stretch for anyone to ever say that Linux will
never be a viable desktop replacement for windows. Just the differences
between RH5.0 and RH7.0 can refute that. Linux is getting closer to
dummy proof on it's installs with each new distro release (Except for
debian, what's up with that? ;-) )
As for the rest of the arguements, everything really comes down to
personal taste, and I'd rather talk politics, religion, the sexes, or
micro-breweries... ;-)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:09:57 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Simon Cooke in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"Weevil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:Ny3H5.1171$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> So...I can't prove it, but I'm not lying. They really did "pooh-pooh"
>those
>> "mickey-mouse interfaces". (Nice phrasing, btw.) They regarded it as
>> toy-like, not serious enough for business use.
>
>I'd actually agree with that opinion -- but for different reasons. The
>Amigas and STs that most people saw didn't have enough oomph for business
>use. No networking. No real expandability. No hard drive (well, you could
>get some as add-ons, but they were prohibitively expensive).
>
>They were really good for home use though.[...]
LOLROTFLMAO.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:06:49 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Weevil in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[...]
>> Then Windows 95 came out and you all stuffed hat. Then you
>> started bellyaching about how Windows ripped you off. Sad.
>
>Windows 95 came out in what, 1995? You do know that it was just Windows 4.0
>and DOS 7.0 bolted together, don't you? Win95 was basically a
>graphics-based task switcher that sat on top of DOS. Still not up to Amiga
>standards, 10 years after Amigas first appeared.
>
>Ten years is a really long time in the computer world. When you see people
>saying that Microsoft has stifled innovation to the point of holding it back
>10 or 15 years, it's because those people saw them do it firsthand.
God-damn right!
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:13:46 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Simon Cooke in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"Weevil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[...]
>> Of course, when Microsoft needs some more upgrade cash, they'll add a couple
>> of whistles and call it Windows 3k, or 2003 or whatever marketing comes up
>> with. At that point, it will suddenly be found that Win2k has bugs, is
>> unstable at times, and you really must upgrade to cure things once and for
>> all. And Drestin and Mike Byrnes and all the other Winvocates will be
>> trumpeting the virtues of the new one and dissing Win2k. And it won't
>> matter if no one can actually tell you what improvements were made in the
>> new one.
>
>Well, I thought that NT was great, and Win2k was better -- mainly for the UI
>support, and the much better network handling (hey, anything that lets me
>VPN in from the login prompt is great by me)... and its support for laptops
>is better than anything else out there. There's also some really cool
>under-the-hood architecture changes -- driver model, NTFS file system,
>guarding for error conditions -- that put it light years ahead of NT.
>
>But the best thing ever? Not by a long chalk.
>
>BTW: The NT team started work on NT 2001 before they finished 2000; it's
>under continous development. It's not just a matter of "hey, we need to sell
>more stuff" -- they're actually working on improving it.
LOL again! "They're actually working on improving it." What a naive
goofball you are, Simon.
>> This will go on forever, or until Microsoft has some competition.
>> Whichever comes first.
>
>Linux is doing a fine job of providing competition :
You haven't the faintest idea what competition looks like. Sit back,
Simon; you're going to be amazed.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:18:25 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said JS/PL in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>Not only are these prices next to nothing even at $30.00/copy, you obviously
>have never heard of volume discounting. It is prevelant EVERYWHERE ON EARTH!
Please tell us why, if per-processor licensing agreements were 'volume
discounts', they weren't based on volume, but on every processor the OEM
sold, regardless of volume, including MS software?
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:27:26 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Simon Cooke in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Said Paul 'Z' Ewandeİ in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>> [...]
>> >Well, I'll have to disagree, AFAIK, the API is the documentad part of a
>set
>> >of OS functions to be used by application developers. If it's not
>> >documented, it's not part of the API. Can a developer infirm or confirm ?
>>
>> I'm not a developer, but I'll happily explain to any developer why they
>> are wrong if they disagree: no, the Application Programming Interface is
>> the entirety of how to tell the OS to do things in order to support
>> application programs. The presumption is that such a thing would be
>> fully documented. Partial documentation of the API is, itself, an
>> anti-competitive act. Obviously, there will be function calls which are
>> not reliable or obsolete, and these, too, should be documented as much
>> as possible. That's what makes an OS competitive; not the lock-in
>> pre-load PPL crap.
>
>By definition, the API is the documented programming interface which
>applications use to communicate with another software system (OS or
>otherwise). Undocumented functions are NOT part of the API; the API is only
>the parts which are public.
By definition, the API is the programming interface which applications
use. Otherwise, it would the DAPI.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Claire Lynn
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:35:55 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Chris Sherlock in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>
>
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
>> Sorry, these aren't facts being made up as we go along; they can be well
>> supported through both logic and evidence. Linux is the best OS that
>> ever was, because it is the only GPL PC OS.
>
>What about GNU's HURD?
Well, the "Much Awaited ALPHA Release" seems to have been in 1996, and
there doesn't seem to be anything much else of it. It seems to have
been trumped by Linux. Other than that, I don't know anything at all
about it.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:02:47 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Mike Byrns in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
>> Said Mike Byrns in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>> >Weevil wrote:
>> [...]
>> >> Interesting stuff, huh? According to the poll you cite, people believe that
>> >> breaking up Microsoft would help the economy, consumers, and the computer
>> >> industry. But they're against it. Why is that, Mike? What does this tell
>> >> us about this poll? Does it tell us anything about Microsoft's PR machine?
>> >
>> >It tells us what people think.
>>
>> Or, more accurately, it tells us that people don't think.
>
>And that show's that you don't. Are you the only member of society with a
>functioning brain? No. You just think so because it's mis-functioning. Call it
>blindness or bigotry -- it's the same thing.
So because the majority think breaking up MS would be good *and* are
against it, *I* am blind or a bigot? You certainly don't present much
evidence that you have a functioning brain, yourself, Mike.
>> >Not what you think about it. Joe on the street
>> >thinks Linux is for nerds and will never use it.
>>
>> Joe on the street obviously listens to idiots like you, instead of
>> thinking about what provides value and is worth purchasing. Mostly
>> because they don't have to; their 'purchasing' decisions are already
>> made for them, by the pre-load lock-in which Microsoft has forced on the
>> OEMs.
>
>If they really want Linux or Mac they will buy it.[...]
And if they bought it, it would be because they really want it, and they
don't, and therefore Microsoft has not been convicted of illegally
monopolizing. Is that your argument?
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:09:38 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Mike Byrns in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>Weevil wrote:
[...]
>> Mike, this is all verifiable stuff. Perhaps you are only familiar with The
>> World According to Bill, but not even he can erase *this* much history.
>
>Listen. I only asked you to post proof that "Microsoft advocates scoffed at GUI
>of Amigas, Macs, and Atari STs. No real productivity could ever be achieved
>with those mouse things, they said. And who needed
>multitasking? Why would anybody ever need to run more than one program at a
>time, for god's sakes? And of course, 640k ram was enough for anybody."
>
>Neither COMA nor COMNA existed then. I was asking you to provide a link to
>prove those comments were made.
Yes, but the real question is why you are asking for that. Is it
because you know it would be very hard to produce, regardless of how
true it is, or because you are so delusional that you believe it isn't
true?
>I remeber being jealous of those cool graphical
>toy computers. But my PC was so much faster and I multitasked quite nicely with
>DesqView and Sidekick. When I saw Windows for the first time in 1987 I wasn't
>terribly impressed. DesqView was still better even though Windows had been out
>for over a year. [...]
Oddly enough, the more experience you actually have, the more stupid it
makes you seem, that you hold your current opinions and delusions.
You're starting to become something of a rather sad figure, Mike; locked
into the monopoly for your livelihood, you can't fathom why anyone says
anything bad about Microsoft...
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
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