Linux-Advocacy Digest #88, Volume #30 Mon, 6 Nov 00 15:13:07 EST
Contents:
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Nik Simpson")
Re: Linux and Mac instead of Windows. (Bruce Scott TOK)
Re: Why don't I use Linux? (Andres Soolo)
Re: Why don't I use Linux? (Andres Soolo)
On a win 2000 system. remove RH7 as follows ("Felix Hall")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Christopher Smith")
Re: More Certification (Jake Taense)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: What a mess.... (Bill Kocynjski)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Sam Morris")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Sam Morris")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Christopher Smith")
Re: The Sixth Sense ("Toon Afish")
Re: Should I use GNOME/KDE or Motif? (Moderator)
Re: What I dont like about Linux (Moderator)
Re: Ethernet efficiency (was Re: Ms employees begging for food) (Eric Smith)
Re: The LAMP solution... (Michael Vester)
Re: Lets try serious advocacy/discussion. ("James")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply-To: "Nik Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Nik Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:34:38 -0500
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Colin R. Day" wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > And thus, you touch upon the ENTIRE problem of the windows paradigm...
> > > that each type of file is ONLY to be used by one specific executable,
> > > and no other.
> > >
> >
> > Only one default program, but one can add other actions. For example, if
> > I right-click a *.tex file, I can apply emacs (the default), tex, or
latex.
>
> Yes...in LINUX you can do that.
>
> I was talking about Microshaft LoseDOS...
>
I would shut up now if I were you Aaron, you are just showing your
ignorance. If you right click on a file there is a bold "OPEN" option which
launches the default application, there is also a non-bold OPEN option that
lets you select any executable on my machine as the application to use to
open the file.
--
Nik Simpson
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bruce Scott TOK)
Subject: Re: Linux and Mac instead of Windows.
Date: 6 Nov 2000 18:25:28 +0100
In article <hNkN5.13217$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Les Mikesell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Where is the compettion for Lotus Notes on Linux? Client version that
>> is not some Domino server.
>
>Notes itself: http://notes.net/linux
Is this another application trying to expand until it is an operating
system? Sound familiar? :-)
--
cu,
Bruce
drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
sign the Linux Driver Petiton: http://www.libranet.com/petition.html
------------------------------
From: Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why don't I use Linux?
Date: 6 Nov 2000 17:37:35 GMT
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can GIMP process batches of graphics image? Paint Shop Pro can.
IIRC is gimp fully Scheme-programmable and yes, it can do batch processing.
> Why limit this to animated GIF?
> MPEG files?
Well, MPEG files aren't just series of pictures, you know ...
--
Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Start every day off with a smile and get it over with.
-- W.C. Fields
------------------------------
From: Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why don't I use Linux?
Date: 6 Nov 2000 17:39:56 GMT
Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> By 2005 Microsoft will be displaced by
> LINUX - THE POWER OF A GNU GENERATION!
If they're not going to be a bank or something by then. :-)
--
Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
idiot, n:
A member of a large and powerful tribe whose influence
in human affairs has always been dominant and controlling.
------------------------------
From: "Felix Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.linux.sucks
Subject: On a win 2000 system. remove RH7 as follows
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:38:33 -0500
Provided you did a custom install and you currently boot RedHat Linux from a
floppy. (ie., you did not choose the automatic install option, and you did
not allow LILO to modify your MBR.)
In Windows 2000 Pro. proceed as follows:
START, SETTINGS, CONTROL PANEL, ADMINISTRATIVE TOOLS, COMPUTER MANAGEMENT,
(under STORAGE, select) DISK MANAGEMENT.
Your Linux partitions have no "Volume" labels, they are of "Type" Basic and
there is no entry under "File Sysyem".
Highlight each one and delete. Win 200 Pro even wipes out the Swap space.
The constant bombardment with bug fixes and new re-releases of rpms are
getting to me too. At least with Microsoft, they save them up and apply them
as a comprehensive Service Pack. The other problem too, is that with some
rpms, (eg: flash from macromedia) even the new release, does not work on all
web pages. Go to http://www.smartplanet.com with your flash player under
Linux.
The only advantage Linux or FreeBSD hold over current Microsoft OS's is that
they work more efficiently on older machines. Who cares? You can purchase a
Pentium III processor + main board + 128MB SDRAM + a 20GB UDMA-66 HD for <
$300US.
Who needs a dinosaur?
Futhermore, Intel, IBM, AMD etc only supports Linux/BSD in this market out
of penis envy. Do not let all the smoke and mirrors fool you. For everyday,
regular computing; Windows can't be beat! Bill may get weathier in the
process but the man & co have to get credit for re-inventing "point and
click".
------------------------------
From: "Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 03:41:30 +1000
"Nik Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:PYBN5.50297$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "Colin R. Day" wrote:
> > >
> > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > And thus, you touch upon the ENTIRE problem of the windows
paradigm...
> > > > that each type of file is ONLY to be used by one specific
executable,
> > > > and no other.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Only one default program, but one can add other actions. For example,
if
> > > I right-click a *.tex file, I can apply emacs (the default), tex, or
> latex.
> >
> > Yes...in LINUX you can do that.
> >
> > I was talking about Microshaft LoseDOS...
> >
> I would shut up now if I were you Aaron, you are just showing your
> ignorance. If you right click on a file there is a bold "OPEN" option
which
> launches the default application, there is also a non-bold OPEN option
that
> lets you select any executable on my machine as the application to use to
> open the file.
Not to mention you can add as many "non bold" :) options as you want to any
filetype to open it in whatever program you want.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jake Taense)
Subject: Re: More Certification
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 17:49:49 GMT
In article <rJUM5.2520$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, VanPopering
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> list. All the computer classes
>required - Great. but the prerequisites you have to take before them (all the
> math, calculus, etc) has ABSOLUTELY
>NOTHING to do with computers, networking, etc. THAT is a waste of time and
> money. I've asked many Unix/Linux sys admin
>and in every case they agreed. In a certification study on my own, Im spending
> 100% of my time learning what I came
>there for. Not taking Gym, Art, or Trig.
Are you really that short-sighted?
Yeah - if all you ever want to do is assemble exceedingly simple business
rules, you can get away without math.
Now do something that actually requires serious computing power. Say, for
instance, what I do. The company I work for is the most heavily computerized
and complicated oil pipeline in the world. 16 individual lines, tank farms,
feeder pipelines... it's a nightmare to schedule, and the software I work with
on a daily basis has to deal with scada systems, densitometers, etc. because
oil volume/density and flow coefficients change with temperature among other
things. We schedule up to 70 days out, and the time computations (and the
accompanying simulation engine calculations) are exceedingly complicated.
Now, as a programmer, how can I hope to model these things without some
math/calculus/physics knowledge? Do you want to be another widget-jockey, or
do you want to tackle something that is actually difficult to accomplish?
If all you ever want to do is write another e-mail client, or a simple
tracking system, you can get away without it - although the algorithms you
learn in those additional courses would be invaluable. But if you want to
program something complicated, you need the math.
On second thought - you go right ahead. You don't need it. The more
widget-jockeys there are, the easier it is for an actual programmer to find a
good job.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 12:49:27 -0500
Sam Morris wrote:
>
> > > The quickest and easiest way for a sysadmin to neuter VBScript "viruses"
> is
> > > to just set the default handler for a .vbs file to notepad (or some
> other
> > > editor) and distribute the setting as a .reg file. Of course, your
> users
> > > that normally run a lot of .vbs files by just double clicking on them
> might
> > > get a tad annoyed.
> >
> > And thus, you touch upon the ENTIRE problem of the windows paradigm...
> > that each type of file is ONLY to be used by one specific executable,
> > and no other.
>
> Sorry Aaron, but once again you're wrong.
>
Really?
You click on a file, and ONE particular application automatically
starts, based on the file TYPE.
You do not have an option of say, associating 3 different apps with
a particular file type.
> > Aaron R. Kulkis
>
> {Mother of all snips}
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Sam
>
> _o/
> >\
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Kocynjski)
Crossposted-To: comp.graphics.api.opengl,comp.os.linux.x,comp.unix.programmer
Subject: Re: What a mess....
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 12:52:58 -0500
In article <hZtN5.26$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Raul Sainz"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is the last time I answer your question since you
> appear not to read our posts. I would use QT and KDE.
I've been following this, and his question is definately not the same
question he asked before. He clearly has been expending some effort to
find answers to his questions aside from asking here, and it seems clear
to me that his research has been affected by the posts and suggestions
here, so I would conclude that he is indeed reading the answers. I've been
asking similar questions, and I can certainly understand his frustration,
especially since so many different alternatives are suggested by several
different people. I can certainly understand your frustration as well,
since it seems that the same answers are given over and over again. But
remember, when you're learning about a new technology, the more you look,
the more issues and problems arise, so the more questions you have. Trying
to get answers from the web sites, or from the mailing lists for those
window managers, tends not to get objective or in-depth discussion useful
for answering those questions.
Bill
------------------------------
From: "Sam Morris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:22:22 -0000
> > > And thus, you touch upon the ENTIRE problem of the windows paradigm...
> > > that each type of file is ONLY to be used by one specific executable,
> > > and no other.
> >
> > Sorry Aaron, but once again you're wrong.
> >
>
> Really?
>
> You click on a file, and ONE particular application automatically
> starts, based on the file TYPE.
>
> You do not have an option of say, associating 3 different apps with
> a particular file type.
You have two ways to associate apps with files in Windows. The first happens
when you install an application. For example, WinZip will associate itself
with (amongst others) .zip files. Now whenever you come across a zip file
you can right click on the file and be given the option to extract the
archive to the folder it is currently in, extract it to an arbitrary
location on convert it to an EXE file.
If I then install WinRar, its menu items will also appear in the CM. These
items are determined by the applications you install (or by yourself if you
are prepared to do a little exploration).
The other way is to right-click a file and from the CM select the Open With
submenu. This provides a list of all the programs that you have added to
this menu. For example, for me the Open With menu contains Notepad, Wordpad,
IE and Word for a .txt file. You can add new programs to this menu by
selecting "Choose Program..." You can therefore associate as many apps as
you like with a particular file type.
--
Cheers,
Sam
_o/
>\
------------------------------
From: "Sam Morris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:29:55 -0000
> On *nix systems, virii are inhibited because a user is running in his /
> her own space, so that downloaded files are isolated, even if run.
> These programs are never given access to any executable on which the
> machine depends. On *nix systems, "virus" is something of an
> anachronism.
As it should be. Fortunately, exactly the same thing happens when running
Windows 2000 (and possibly NT4 if you're using NTFS).
--
Cheers,
Sam
_o/
>\
------------------------------
From: "Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 04:36:57 +1000
"Sam Morris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:uGCN5.9$y94.1043@stones...
> > On *nix systems, virii are inhibited because a user is running in his /
> > her own space, so that downloaded files are isolated, even if run.
> > These programs are never given access to any executable on which the
> > machine depends. On *nix systems, "virus" is something of an
> > anachronism.
>
> As it should be. Fortunately, exactly the same thing happens when running
> Windows 2000 (and possibly NT4 if you're using NTFS).
Certainly NT4 (and every other version of NT).
------------------------------
From: "Toon Afish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:46:42 -0500
Based on what I read here, it beats the hell out of me. But how does your
salary relate to your original comment? Is there some connection?
FWIW, I don't pay my Eunuchs admins any more than my MS admins. Same job,
same BS, same pay. A competent network admin will get the job done
regardless of whether it's UNIX or Windows.
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Toon Afish wrote:
> >
> > George Custer felt the same way about all those Indians. All he could
see
> > was savages. Now Gen. Custer and your brain have much in common. Both
dead.
> >
>
> And yet, I make 3x as much as Microcrash admins.
>
> Why is that?
------------------------------
From: Moderator <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: linux.redhat,linux.redhat.misc
Subject: Re: Should I use GNOME/KDE or Motif?
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 14:03:35 -0500
Bill Kocynjski wrote:
>
> Why KDE instead of GNOME?
GNOME is done in C. KDE is C++. KDE also requires less packages and
libraries than GNOME does, and tends to run somewhat faster.
--
-Moderator
"Unfairly but truthfully, our party has been tagged as
being against things. Anti-immigrant, for example."
-George W. Bush, New York Times, 7/2/2000
------------------------------
From: Moderator <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What I dont like about Linux
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 14:08:31 -0500
JoeX1029 wrote:
>
> This is a list of what I dislike about Linux, though easily solved and not too
> big a deal.
>
> 1) Netscape
> The Netscape windows is *always* too tall, fixed easily.
>
> Well, there it is. Thats what i dont like.
That's not something bad about Linux, or Netscape. It's your window
manager.
--
-Moderator
"Unfairly but truthfully, our party has been tagged as
being against things. Anti-immigrant, for example."
-George W. Bush, New York Times, 7/2/2000
------------------------------
From: Eric Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,comp.os.netware.misc
Subject: Re: Ethernet efficiency (was Re: Ms employees begging for food)
Date: 06 Nov 2000 11:09:50 -0800
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Depends on the brand, but typically the OS NIC driver should have this
> capability, if not, there are DOS utilities for most NICs that allow
> you to boot from a DOS disk and run a utility from there and configure
> it (force 10 or 100, set buffers, etc)
Unfortunately the 10/100 hubs that I wanted to connect together did not
seem to have any ability to boot from a DOS disk.
------------------------------
From: Michael Vester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The LAMP solution...
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 12:16:28 -0700
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Hey y'all...
<snip>
>
> 1. Is anyone using a LAMP solution right now? How are you finding it?
>
I am using the LAMP solution for two projects, actually one is
running on FreeBSD and one on Suse Linux. It is very straight
forward and easy to program.
> 2. Is anyone using a variation on the LAMP solution (ie: PostgreSQL
> instead of MySQL, Javascript/CGI instead of PHP, etc.)? How are you
> finding that?
>
The FreeBSD system works just like the Linux one. I use a
little Javascript but most coding is done on the server side
using PHP and C. MySQL was chosen because most of the time the
database will only be read. MySQL is very fast in read only
mode.
> 3. At what point in terms of scope should I consider the LAMP solution
> to be inneffective? (Answers in terms of server requests per minute,
> security considerations, upper limit of database size etc. would be
> great.) What would the solution be at this point? Oracle? SQL Server?
>
The FreeBSD system is handling 6 million rows with no problem.
The system has not gone into production but we anticipate 100
server requests per second running on a single Pentium III
with 512 megabytes.
I have seen MySQL databases with over 500 million rows running
on a FreeBSD system which does not have any 2 gigabyte file
size limitation.
> 4. What is the costing comparison between the LAMP solution (or a
> variation) versus a proprietary solution? Information involving the
> total cost of ownership in both and software costs (if applicable to
> LAMP) in both would be great.
>
The costs have been low. PHP is a very simple language but
extremely well suited for web applications. MySQL is just
plain, simple SQL. Features like transaction processing and
enforced referential integrity are not missed. For the price
of proprietary software solution, you can have the software
and the development done too.
> 5. Which Linux distribution would be best for the LAMP solution? Red
> Hat? Slackware?
>
The FreeBSD system was built from source code. The Linux Suse
system rolled right out of the installation ready to run. If
you want to dig into a LAMP solution quickly, I highly
recommend Suse.
> 6. Which languages would be best for implementing the LAMP solution
> (performance being the primary issue)?
>
If you need to go beyond what PHP can do for you, C is the
best choice. MySQL comes with an administrator client written
in C and of course, you get the source code for that.
> 7. Can anyone estimate the basic hardware requirements for a small
> company employing the LAMP solution? How about for a proprietary
> solution? Since there's probably no perfect answer for this, could you
> mention an instance of a LAMP or proprietary solution that is working
> or not working, based on its current hardware situation, and give the
> hardware specs?
>
The LAMP solution required very modest hardware requirements.
Especially if you set up the server in CLI mode only. With a
modest Pentium II, 300 Mhz, 256 megabyte server, I was able to
import 6 million rows of data in 33 seconds. The bottom line
is that if you find yourself needing more horsepower, you can
migrate the whole system to a more powerful, non Intel
platform with little or no source code changes. With our
particular situation, if one server proves to be inadequate,
another will be added. The database will be split so that the
heavily used tables will have a dedicated server. A little
planning up front will make this very easy to implement.
Michael Vester
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
A credible Linux advocate
------------------------------
From: "James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Lets try serious advocacy/discussion.
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 21:29:44 +0200
MH,
Now you have done it! From now on you are likely to be labeled a really bad
person, someone who cannot argue the point. No, wait, I think it is going
to be worse : you are going to be called a ............... WinTroll.
James
"MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8u6gcg$2kg$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> This is rich..
>
> > > Let's avoid getting into a pissing war about applications. Lets talk
> > > about real serious (technical) limitations or problems with Linux.
>
> We really can't address the main problems if we're not going to include
> applications, now, can we Sir?
>
> Besides, this is impossible to do in here. Any rational discussion on what
> linux may need only results in knee jerk defense. Read my recent post on
> cola. You've an inherent problem with linux in its almost completely
> malcontented, and fragmented user base. If the 'end lusers' main reason to
> be here is out of disdain for windows, then they are fringe to begin with.
> In the real world, people use their computer to get work done, not as an
> excuse for a holy war. You've got a real communication problem here.
You'll
> agree on nothing, and you listen to nothing. The real world just don't
wanna
> hear that shit. And furthuremore, in the great majority of cases, it is
the
> linux user who will start the pissing war. Just read the posts in here for
> all the evidence you need. If you want serious discourse then physician
heal
> thyself. Quit threatening to sue people on usenet because they question
your
> authority as a spokesman for Pete's sake. Either you walk the walk and
talk
> the talk, or, as Tony Kornheiser would say. "Shutup. No, really, just
> shutup".
>
> > > What can Windows or Win2K do that Linux can not?
>
> Bottom line. Walk into any store that sells software, anywhere, and take a
> good look.
> Same thing with any school. What do you see? That's what windows does that
> linux can't.
> It is an open source problem with no easy solution. People want to get
paid
> to stand behind something for years to come. Kids writing tight binaries,
or
> a group of college students with a good application don't have those
> worries, and with good reason. Your problems here are obvious. You want
> linux to be something it's not and will never be while it's completely
open
> source. Open source is fascinating, I'll grant you that. I liken it to
Jack
> Nicholson's line in "As good as it gets" when asked how he writes "women
so
> well". Same thing applies to open source. -- Think of commercial software
> then take away reason and accountability. How on earth can you expect to
> manage projects that are going to compete with the windows market with
this
> very management spread out over the internet with no central controlling
> authority? I think what 'linux' has done is incredible. What redhat has
> done? Don't think so. What Corel has done? Nah. What KDE has done? Pretty
> cool. But......
> If I'm paying nothing for something, I know what I'm ultimately getting.
You
> just can't very easily change this capitalist way of consumer thought
> because you tell them it's better. Linux's only inroads to the desktop for
> as long as I can see are the same as they ever were. College geeks,
hackers,
> and windows haters.
>
> > > What can Linux do that Windows or Win2K can't?
> Post very high uptimes due to the fact that it's still only being asked to
> do what it was very well designed to do.
>
> You folks in here act like the sort of applictions you're complaining
about
> (and one minute want, the next minute don't, I might add) are trivial to
> write.
> You'll be the first to say something like "I saw Word's source code. What
a
> mess! it's full of GoTo's", without ever taking a moment to realize the
> complexity of what this application is doing. You just know that it indeed
> will crash eventually, so you use that as the ulitmate litmus test for
> worthiness. I won't use another car analogy, but there a million of them
to
> illustrate just how silly this stance is. Ask yourselves: how often does
> Notedpad or Wordpad crash? Now, how many GUI editors for Linux are there
> that provide the same functionality? Plenty, for sure. They don't crash
> either. Now, how many full-featured word processors are there for windows?
> Plenty. Look at that functionality, forget your opionion of whether a
> 'luser' needs that much is true or not.
> Now, where is that same application on linux? Is it as stable? Does it
offer
> a programmable interface without requiring a 'luser' to have a CS degree?
> Will it interoperate properly with what (like it or not) most people use?
> Can it be extended, customized, and or embedded?
>
>
> > > Why isn't Linux suitable for the desktop?
>
> Should be self explanatory. Linux is really only a little closer to a
usable
> desktop solution than it was this time two or five years ago. I don't mean
> desktop for a hacker. I mean a desktop that can compete for users of
windows
> & mac. Even with a really good desktop, we can't discuss any further
because
> you've excluded applications from the mix. BeOs is a great example. Great
> os, no apps. It will die as sure as the sun will come up tomorrow. Linux
is
> surviving on price and price alone. If linux was $89 a box, you think
people
> would have taken a second look? If so, you're dreaming. I came across
redhat
> somewhere the other week for $19.95
> That's not a bad price, considering. __end luser thinking in Office Depot
> after stumbling across redhat for above price... "Now, where is that
> encyclopedia, dictionary, math tutor...oh , and my kid needs Word for
> school,...Mr. Salesman...could you help me find....."
>
>
>
>
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