Linux-Advocacy Digest #600, Volume #30 Sat, 2 Dec 00 01:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (Alan)
Re: Linux is awful ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
OS Sound OFF. (Charlie Ebert)
Re: Linux is awful (spicerun)
Re: The Sixth Sense ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: OS Sound OFF. ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (Alan)
Re: Whistler review. ("Tom Wilson")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 01:47:41 GMT
Donovan Rebbechi writes:
> The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
anything without having had a tutorial, won't get very far because
of that "every letter key is a command" approach. Most people
expect that pressing a letter key enters that letter into the
document they're editing, either overwriting the letter that's
already there, or inserting it before the location of the cursor,
depending on the default mode of the editor. In my experience,
vi is unique in that regard. Are there other editors out there
that start off in "every letter key is a command" mode?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alan)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 05:18:05 GMT
On Fri, 1 Dec 2000 22:36:09 -0600, "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>"Alan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> According to trial testimony, IBM was threatened by MS in that if IBM
>> didn't stop promoting OS2 (or was it LotusNotes, I can't remember)
>> they would have to pay retail for each copy of Windows 95. Where it is
>> estimated that most OEMs were paying $35-$40/license, IBM would have
>> to shell out almost $200 at the time placing it's PC business at a
>> severe competitive disadvantage.
>
>I believe that this was actually in regards to the millions of dollars IBM
>owned MS in back Windows 3.1 licenses, not OS/2.
You are correct in that this is the reason MS claimed in order to
withold the new licensing until the matter of royalties was cleared.
However, according to the testimony, MS was willing to "forgo" the
audit provided that IBM stopped their promotion of products that
competed with MS. In a side note, MS also lost millions in royalties
on this delay, possibly far more than the disputed amount.
This is a great source of debate with the pro-MS group stating that MS
was standing for principle and what not, and the Anti-MS group stating
that it was akin to extortion. The judge decided that MS was acting
uncompetitively.
>> As it was, IBM did resist, and three hours before Win95 was offically
>> launched, IBM got it's license at some cost comparable to other OEMs.
>> However, because of this delay, they missed out on the back to school
>> and Christmas seasons and lost millions.
>
>Windows 95 came out in August of 95. No way did it take IBM 4 months to get
>machines out the door. Hell, it'd surprise me if it took more than 2 weeks.
>Most colleges don't start until late september or early october.
>
My college started the third Monday in August that year. And you may
not recall Win95 required greater system resources (hardware) that
would have to be ordered. IBM could not just place an order the next
day for lets say, 1,000,000 RAM chips, 100,000 hard drives, specific
motherboards. and have them ship overnight. These products had to be
manufactured, and other OEMs had priority because they ordered first
because they had their license already.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 00:25:41 -0500
Les Mikesell wrote:
>
> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:908par$b42s$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > Just because you haven't had problems doesn't mean that no one else
> > > has problems.
> > >
> > > You have no idea how many hours I have wasted trying to get
> > > Windows installs to work right.
> >
> > Oh, I've many problems, and I've spent many hours trying to install
> > Windows9x.
> > But I simply don't agree that it's that hard to fix things in it.
>
> Sometimes it isn't hard - it is impossible. I have an ISA card modem
> that just won't work with win95 even though it works fine DOS and
> Linux. It is jumpered to turn off pnp, but win95 manages to move
> it somewhere and make it have an irq conflict with the 2nd IDE
> controller.
>
> >
> > > In theory you can install multiple drivers without a reboot but I
> > > have found that it isn't a good idea. If the machine doesn't
> > > work you have no idea which one caused the problem.
> >
> > Actually, you can usually tell by looking at the hardware panel in system
> > properties, and look for a yellow exlamation.
> > (I assume this is what you mean when you say a problem, if not, please
> > spesify, win9x has a *lot* of problems).
>
> You can sometimes see 2 that conflict, but that doesn't tell you why
> or how to keep win9x from shuffling things around by itself.
What, you're questioning the (non-)wisdom of Microsoft spaghetti-coders?
>
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Subject: OS Sound OFF.
Reply-To: Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 05:27:58 GMT
Everybody who reads this, sound off with your OS please.
The one your using or like the most.
Then the others you use follow.
Using Debian 2.3 Woody
Others None.
Thanks
Charlie
------------------------------
From: spicerun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 05:29:18 GMT
Pete Goodwin wrote:
> Michael Williams wrote:
>
> > You don't have to uninstall it. Haven't you ever heard of upgrading (in
> > this case, rpm -u filename?)
>
> I got conflicts with various packages.
If you're conflicting with an older package, then your command is:
rpm -U filename --force
Personally, I like to see the hash marks when installing, so I use:
rpm -Uvh filename --force
Don't worry, the --force option will not override checking of dependencies,
so if you need another package to install your package, that will still be
reported and your package won't be installed.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 00:33:53 -0500
Giuliano Colla wrote:
>
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> > "Giuliano Colla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > VB is the easiest and most simple way to provide an application with
> > GUI.
> > > > > And if you take a look at the code, you'll see that there are no
> > components
> > > > > glued together.
> > > > > The application use standard API call to read/write/modify the
> > registry. You
> > > > > could do the same with any language that has a compiler for windows.
> > > > > It's usually very easy to convert VB code to C/C++, the reverse is not
> > true,
> > > > > of course. If you know C/C++/Java/<any programming language>, it
> > shouldn't
> > > > > be hard to understand what the application is doing.
> > > >
> > > > Oh, I'm not worried about understanding it. Having already mastered
> > most
> > > > aspects of C++, become familiar with MFC and the Win32 API, and now
> > > > knowing pretty well knowing how to use C++ Builder (and hence, some
> > Delphi),
> > > > I have really no need for VB.
> > > >
> > > > Granted, it may have some hooks into entities that the above products
> > don't
> > > > give you, but, for the size of projects I work on, VB is not suitable.
> > > > And it has other costs that I'm not keen on paying.
> > > >
> > > > The funny thing about VB is that is great for the simple apps such as
> > > > you have written. But it has shortcomings in larger projects, and
> > > > your workarounds then make it into a house of cards.
> > > >
> > >
> > > As many years have passed since its introduction, maybe the meaning of
> > > BASIC has been forgotten.
> > > It was developed at Dartmouth College in the mid 60's as a mean to teach
> > > students how to program. I'd rather say as not to program. Nothing else
> > > than a handy tool for quick things you use just once, IMO. And it's an
> > > acronym for "Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Interpreter Compiler".
> > > If you think that not many years later, with the same purpose (i.e.
> > > teaching how to program) professor Wirth at Zurich Polytechnic School
> > > created Pascal, well, you may see the difference.
> >
> > VB is indeed the beginner approach to programming in windows.
> > It's quite handy at times like this one, when you need to create simple
> > applications easily & quickly.
> > Building not-so-simple applications can be done as well, but can be a pain
> > more often than not.
> > A programmer that tries to undertake a major task with VB should be taken
> > out and shot.
>
> Well, maybe you might support my opinion, that teaching of Basic (and
> VB) should be forbidden, and its usage be only permitted on a limited
> and controlled basis to grown up programmers, after a careful
> examination by a commission of experts. Sort of "adults only", but more
> stringent.
I have no problem with teaching it...
but any manager who allows his/her people to write ANYTHING for
use in business should be relieved (let alone hiring people
specifically to use the god-awful langauge)
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 00:48:33 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>
> > The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>
> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
Big fucking deal. NOTHING about computers is "intuitive"
> anything without having had a tutorial, won't get very far because
> of that "every letter key is a command" approach. Most people
> expect that pressing a letter key enters that letter into the
> document they're editing, either overwriting the letter that's
> already there, or inserting it before the location of the cursor,
> depending on the default mode of the editor. In my experience,
> vi is unique in that regard. Are there other editors out there
> that start off in "every letter key is a command" mode?
12 years of posting to USENET, and you're STILL the biggest
moron I've ever come across.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 00:51:50 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>
> > Alan Baker wrote:
>
> >> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>
> >>> The only tests that 'demonstrated' superior speed on a Dvorak
> >>> board were those conducted by Dvorak himself (1943, US Navy).
> >>>
> >>> All other trials have failed to reproduce the results.
>
> >> <http://www.som.syr.edu/facstaff/dvorak/blackburn.html>
> >>
> >> "Typing, Fastest. Mrs. Barbara Blackburn of Salem, Oregon can maintain
> >> 150 wpm for 50 min (37,500 key strokes) and attains a speed of 170 wpm
> >> using the Dvorak Simplified Keyboard (DSK) system. Her top speed was
> >> recorded at 212 wpm. Source: Norris McWhirter, ed. (1985), THE GUINNESS
> >> BOOK OF WORLD RECORDS, 23rd US edition, New York: Sterling Publishing
> >> Co., Inc."
>
> > Big fucking deal.
>
> On the contrary, it represents a trial that did not fail to reproduce
> the superior speed.
There is NOTHING to indicate that she could not achieve the same
speed on a QWERTY keyboard.
>
> It doesn't surprise me that you would try to downplay the significance
> of evidence that contradicts a claim of yours.
The choice of ONE PERSON proves nothing, dave.
The only way to determine which keyboard is better is to take
two large groups of non-typists and put them through touch-typing
programs on the two keyboards, where they have exclusive access to
that keyboard configuration ONLY, with identicla keyboard time,
...and then see what happens.
Dvorak claims to have done this...but in 55 years NOBODY has
reproduced his results.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OS Sound OFF.
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 00:52:46 -0500
Charlie Ebert wrote:
>
> Everybody who reads this, sound off with your OS please.
> The one your using or like the most.
>
> Then the others you use follow.
>
> Using Debian 2.3 Woody
>
SuSE 6.4
planning to upgrade to SuSE 7.x as soon as they have the new 2.4 kernal out.
> Others None.
>
> Thanks
>
> Charlie
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 05:54:07 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:1xYV5.5482$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>
> > The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>
> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
> anything without having had a tutorial, won't get very far because
> of that "every letter key is a command" approach. Most people
> expect that pressing a letter key enters that letter into the
> document they're editing, either overwriting the letter that's
> already there, or inserting it before the location of the cursor,
> depending on the default mode of the editor. In my experience,
> vi is unique in that regard. Are there other editors out there
> that start off in "every letter key is a command" mode?
Remember that vi was written as an alternative to ed and other
'pure' command editors of an earlier era . At the time it was
unusual to display the changes in real time on the screen because
video terminals were uncommon compared to teletype-like devices.
However, it turns out that if you are modifying existing text more
than starting from scratch you are likely to do more editing commands
than insertions.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alan)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 05:57:05 GMT
On Sat, 02 Dec 2000 05:18:05 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alan) wrote:
>My college started the third Monday in August that year. And you may
>not recall Win95 required greater system resources (hardware) that
>would have to be ordered. IBM could not just place an order the next
>day for lets say, 1,000,000 RAM chips, 100,000 hard drives, specific
>motherboards. and have them ship overnight. These products had to be
>manufactured, and other OEMs had priority because they ordered first
>because they had their license already.
>
Of course, everything beyond the day the fall semester started for me
is pure supposition on my part.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 06:08:48 GMT
"westprog 2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:908a58$4rf$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <pBmV5.3637$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> > Although I'm BIG fan of Pascal, (Used Borland's compilers for years
> > and
> > still use 7.0 for DOS "quickies") I think assembly is an excellent
> > teaching
> > tool in that it forces a student to really THINK his algorithms
> > through. It
> > also give a great deal of insight into how a computer actually works
> > on a logical level.
>
> > I'm also quite sadistic at times and would love nothing more than to
> > assign
> > a large project, with floating point math, using the above mentioned
> > hardware, to some pimply faced kid who learned on Visual Basic! Hee
> > Hee Hee.
>
> Personally, I would not let anyone near assembler until they have
> developed good coding practices.
Good code practices are not language dependant.
>If someone who knows Basic is taught
> assembler, by the time he learns an appropriate language, the bad
> habits will be thoroughly engrained.
And are just as easily corrected when one is presented a situation that
DEMANDS good habits. Being bitten in the ass a few times tends to drill the
point home.
>Someone who knows how to program
> properly can be taught the techniques of assembly (or machine code)
> programming without much harm. One does not start driving lessons by
> dismantling the engine.
As I said before, code practices are not language dependant.
As for the engine analogy, it doesn't apply. Programmers are not trained to
"drive". Driving is their end user's job. A programmer's job is to take a
conglomeration of copper and silicon and make it useful for more than taking
up deskspace. To do that effectively requires more than a passing
aquaintance with the "engine".
If a programmer wishes his/her efforts to be multi-platform. this low-level
knowledge is a must.
The sooner the "box" is de-mystified, the better.
> Ideally, trainee programmers wouldn't be let near a computer for their
> first six months.
I have to disagree there. Hands on is the ONLY way to learn. Theory is
little more than trivia until it is applied.
--
Tom Wilson
A Computer Programmer who wishes he'd chosen another vocation.
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.advocacy) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
