Linux-Advocacy Digest #31, Volume #31 Sat, 23 Dec 00 10:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: Tell us Why you use Windows over Linux. (Philip Neves)
Re: Tell us Why you use Windows over Linux. (Philip Neves)
Re: Which retail Linux distribution is best? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: This group should rename itself (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? ("billh")
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? ("billh")
Re: Which retail Linux distribution is best? (Ralph Miguel Hansen)
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Looks kike Linux is taking the lead! (.)
Re: Tell us Why you use Windows over Linux. (.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Philip Neves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tell us Why you use Windows over Linux.
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:39:32 GMT
mitch wrote:
> On 19 Dec 2000 17:48:44 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.) wrote:
>
> >mitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >>>Note that not all people who use instant messenger software are thick
> >>>or lazy.
> >>>
> >
> >> Is that a retraction?
> >
> >No.
> >
>
> I didn`t think so...
>
> >> I all too well understand how computers work, but I also understand
> >> that I must make computers work for me. At the moment, that means
> >> using windows to run the apps I require. If that is what you describe
> >> as "singing praises", then hallelujah. I`m afraid, however, that I am
> >> just stating a rather bland, unemotional fact.
> >
> >Using microsoft's instant messenger is horrible for a myriad of reasons,
> >only some of which we've actually explored in this thread.
> >
>
> Not really. 'Using' it is fine. The actual protocols used and
> such-like may indeed be horrible, but as an end user, this doesn`t
> really concern me.
>
> >> "Microsoft makes an OS upon which I productively run several
> >> applications without undue distress."
> >
> >For gods sake, dont use linux.
> >
>
> Why not? I`d rather use linux, but regardless of the maturity of the
> kernel and windows managers, the maturity of the applications
> available leaves a lot to be desired. I understand and applaud linux
> advocates who give honest advice to some people such as "Don`t use
> linux, you don`t understand what it`s all about, you`re happy with
> windows, don`t change." , but simply to say don`t use it because I am
> able to use windows productively *regardless* of the os's limitations
> is a bit harsh, and smacks of os bigotry - something which I find very
> disturbing and childish given the otherwise intelligent conversations
> which I have taken part in.
>
> >> Maybe they could use this in their next advertising blitz?
> >
> >I dont know, do you think it will work better than "where do you want to
> >go today?"
>
> No, but it would certainly sum up the experiences of the majority of
> end users.
>
> I never did figure out that "where do you want to go today" thing. My
> first thought is usually "Barbados, but I really have to go to
> work"...
>
Hey I've Installed linux from scratch and I use instant messaging does that
make me thick or lazy.
------------------------------
From: Philip Neves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tell us Why you use Windows over Linux.
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:43:06 GMT
mitch wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:16:34 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ian Davey)
> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Why MSN Messenger in particular though, there are plenty of other
> >messaging programs that do run in Linux: IRC, ICQ. Plus AIM and it's
> >compatibles (gaim). So why pick a specific Microsoft protocol, when
> >equivalents exist? If you want to go to a different operating system, yet
> >use the exact same tools you did on your previous operating system, then
> >why bother switching at all? If you really seriously want to switch then
> >its just a case of finding equivalent functionality.
>
> I actually said exactly that in my post. There are no linux apps
> which offer the funcionality and productivity which I currently
> require and receive from the apps I currently run under windows.
>
> [ Oh, and I use messenger because it is the leanest, and most useable
> messenger app on windows. apart from mirc, I suppose. ICQ is a
> bloated, confusing mess. A bit like windows then. ]
>
> >
> >So instead of looking for Apps A, B and C, you have to think about what
> >each provides then discover if you can achieve the same using Linux
> >applications. And for most cases you can. It just depends on how serious
> >you really are about switching.
>
> I would love to be able to switch to linux, but for already given
> reasons, cannot. It`s not really a big deal to me - I mean, it`s only
> a piece of software.
>
> I`m sure that eventually linux will provide a platform which will
> attract the applications that I use.
>
What kind of apps are you running that you can't find for linux. Tell me
maybe I can help you find the equivalent.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Which retail Linux distribution is best?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:46:01 +0000
maximus wrote:
> I must confess that I am a Linux neophyte (sorry). Started looking
> into it about a year ago but.... I am now interested in beginning to
> use and support the Linux/Open source movement again. I looked at the
> software shelves today and found numerous commercial versions of Linux.
> Must more than before. Suse, Mandrake, Red Hat and others. I am curious
> if anyone has any advice on which of these distributions would be
> better (or worse). I would like to initially have a dual boot system,
> however, the comments on the boxes were very vaque on whether or not
> they had that feature built in. The latest kernel (although one had a
> beta of 2.4) in these packages seemed be 2.2.17/18. I believe 2.4 is
> coming out soon (don't know how 2.3 was skipped?. I welcome your valued
> opinions and thank you in advance.
> I wasn't sure which forum to post this general/specific question in so
> I also posted it in alt.os.linux (no offense).
I tried Slackware, RedHat and finally settled on Mandrake. It's based on
RedHat but with a lot of useful extensions.
Mandrake installs LILO or GRUB and sets these up to do dual boot for you.
I've had mixed success with this. So far LILO seems to working just fine.
Since I'm looking for a replacement for Windows, I went for KDE 2.0 as the
desktop. It's fairly new and buggy but it's the best I've seen so far.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: This group should rename itself
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:55:09 +0000
Nathaniel Jay Lee wrote:
> OK Pete, if you stop to realize that the people on the
> Linux "side" of this debate are seeing the same thing said
> about Linux on a daily basis you may start to understand
> why it is frustrating to them/us. Add in the fact that
> this is in fact a 'home' for Linux advocates and people
> are entering that home with the express purpose of putting
> down Linux, telling Linux advocates that they are idiots,
> and expecting Linux advocates to turn tail just because
> they say, "You guys are f*cked in the head" and you may,
> just may start to understand the other side. It appears
> to some that you are here expressly to stir the pot. You
> come to a Linux advocacy group to post pro-Windows
> messages. Like I said, it doesn't seem you do it out of
> stupidity (like Claire Lynn/Steve/Simon or TIMMAY! do),
> but it does occassionally seem that you do it out of
> spite, anger or just plain 'revenge'. I'm not sure what
> the point of that is.
What I see here is a lot of people praising Linux to the skies and beating
on about how crap Windows is. When I read what they say, and their
experience differs vastly from mine, I sometimes will say something.
When I hear hype telling me Linux is going to be the future, I look into
it. When I see it isn't really there yet, them I'm bound to cry foul.
Also - I have never called someone an idiot or "fucked in the head" until
someone has used similar language first.
I want Linux to be better than Windows, exceed it and be all it could be.
At the moment, it's on the sidelines. I want so much more for it.
> I'm not trying to anger you further, just trying to get
> you to see why it is angering to us Linux advocates that
> aren't freaking on Windows every five seconds. And I am
> one of those people that Windows crashed on nearly
> constantly. But that doesn't mean that I say it is
> impossible to keep it running at all. Maybe for some it
> is, I can't judge that as I've never seen it. Just like
> you claim that you have never seen Linux stay up and
> running. That is tough for us to believe, just as you say
> it is tough for you to believe us. It's a two sided coin,
> a two way street. If you just stand in the middle for a
> moment (as I try to do from time to time) I would hope you
> could understand that.
I've never seen Windows crash as much as people say here it does; likewise
I've never said Linux doesn't stay up and running. I have said I've crashed
it and had it hang on me, but that doesn't happen all the time. So far,
compared to Windows, I can surf etc. without any problems.
> But, that's probably enough lecturing for me. I don't
> really know why I posted the original. I guess I thought
> I could break through the Linux vs Windows garbage and
> reach a common ground analysis stage somewhere. But it
> seems this war is far too "important" to let it stop.
> Hold on to your anger Pete. It seems that is your
> contribution to the "war".
Why does it have to be a war?
Who says we can't have Windows and Linux... I already know the answer to
that one.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: "billh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,us.military.army
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 12:30:56 GMT
billh
> >> [3] How is Aaron a wanna-be war hero? Did he post that he wanted
> >> to lead a platoon of soldiers onto a beach or something?
> >> Did he post that he DID lead a platoon of soldiers onto
> >> a beach -- Normandy? Grenada? Kuwait? -- or something?
> >> (Do I really care? Not all that much.)
> >
> >Then why ask the first question above?
>
> Mostly out of curiosity, I guess. :-)
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random curiosity here
> up 87 days, 13:13, running Linux.
>
------------------------------
From: "billh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,us.military.army
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 12:39:24 GMT
"The Ghost In The Machine"
> >> [3] How is Aaron a wanna-be war hero? Did he post that he wanted
> >> to lead a platoon of soldiers onto a beach or something?
> >> Did he post that he DID lead a platoon of soldiers onto
> >> a beach -- Normandy? Grenada? Kuwait? -- or something?
> >> (Do I really care? Not all that much.)
> >
> >Then why ask the first question above?
>
> Mostly out of curiosity, I guess. :-)
Kulkis has claimed to do things he hasn't. One is that he has claimed to
have been on classified ops that he can't talk about, yet he talks about
them. The most damning thing, in my book, is that he has claimed to have
been awarded the Presidential Unit Citation, a unit heroism award, for his
"anti-terrorism" expertise at the Atlanta Olympics. Top this off with his
profound and demonstrated lack of general military knowledge in even the
most basic of subjects, and all soldiers with a modicum of experience
immediately see him for what he is, a lying "war-hero-wannabe".
Wannabes are in the Army, and they are easy to spot, especially considering
they place the spotlight on themselves. It is the first sign/symptom. Do a
dejanews search. If the whole situation weren't so pathetic, it'd be a
riot, really.
------------------------------
From: Ralph Miguel Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Which retail Linux distribution is best?
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:38:38 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Philip Neves wrote:
>
> Why do idiots like you come on to news groups just to trash a system. Do
> you not have anything better to do with your time.
>
>
No, he has no better things to do. Can you imagine that flatfish has
friends? I guess, in the real life he is a servile type, afraid of his boss.
He likes to make a little noise in the net. Who cares? Even idiots like him
are able to use their Tamagotchi-M$-powered PCs for something. Bet he
needed several months to learn how to use the IE and Outlook.
Happy Christmas
Ralph Miguel Hansen
Auf der Donau 29
45139 Essen
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:51:52 GMT
Tom Wilson wrote:
>
> "T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Said Tom Wilson in alt.destroy.microsoft on Mon, 04 Dec 2000 05:42:26
> > [...]
> > >Rush is loud, obnoxious, pompous, opinionated and , more often than not,
> > >absolutely right in what he says.
> >
> > Think harder.
>
> Drop dead.
Rush Rage detected!
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:53:40 GMT
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> >
> >Chris (scratching his painfully itchy rectum...
> >
> > ... you DON'T want to borrow his keyboard!)
>
> Ewww....that's Too Much Information, d00d.... :-)
>
I had an office mate once (a technical lead!) who would
take his shoes and socks off and then trim and clean his
nails. I hated using his machine, ugh.
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 14:05:12 GMT
JS/PL wrote:
>
> "T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Said Tom Wilson in alt.destroy.microsoft on Mon, 04 Dec 2000 05:42:26
> > [...]
> > >Rush is loud, obnoxious, pompous, opinionated and , more often than not,
> > >absolutely right in what he says.
> >
> > Think harder.
>
> Looks like he hit's the mark here:
> http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_122200/content/stack1.html
> Sara Jessica Parker, reportedly worth 30 million is worried her family may
> suffer from cuts in government programs.
>
> And here:.
>
> http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_121800/content/stack2.html
>
> The Hilary/Newt double standard, seems to hit the nail on the head.
Jesus, how long does it take his frickin' Web pages to load. It's
more tedious than listening to the pompous bloviating windbag.
Still waiting....
So this is the hard-hitting, dead accurate analysis of Rush? A big
expose into the mumblings of a movie star? And he can't find enough
in her stupid comment, he has to warp and twist it and make it sound
even more garish than it is.
The man is a fucking idiot!
The second link has a legitimate starting point... if I were Hillary, I
would not accept /any/ money until the goddam book was finished. But
then Rush goes off bragging about his own books. What a pompous,
narcissistic, arrogant windbag, as if anyone would give a shit about
his crap. And then he essentially calls his own books fiction!!! Here
it is!!!
In the nonfiction world, the numbers I <<<
racked up just don't happen. Look <<<
at any number of books that have come
out on the nonfiction side that
have been heralded as tremendous sellers,
and you'll see total sales run of 300,000.
See, I TOLD YOU SO!!! Rush admits his work is essentially FICTION !!!!
Chris "learning the techniques of the Institute for Advanced Conservative
Studies"
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Subject: Re: Looks kike Linux is taking the lead!
Date: 23 Dec 2000 14:45:46 GMT
Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.) writes:
>> Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > Whistler Beta 1 is quite stable.
>>
>> I especially love those cute mouseovers all over the GUI.
>>
>> No seriously, thats nessesary.
> Yep, just like all the mouse-overs that are required by some unwritten
> perverse law for commercial websites. It was cute 3 years ago, it's
> annoying now (ditto with mouse-over popup menus and most every other
> use of mouse-over).
Agreed. The "industry" regularly fixates itself on useless eyecandy (as
opposed to useful eyecandy; see animated desktops re: NextStep/OpenStep)
without regard to efficiency or stability.
And microsoft somehow seems to always be the lead in this regard.
=====.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Subject: Re: Tell us Why you use Windows over Linux.
Date: 23 Dec 2000 14:49:09 GMT
Philip Neves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> mitch wrote:
>> On 19 Dec 2000 17:48:44 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.) wrote:
>>
>> >mitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >>>Note that not all people who use instant messenger software are thick
>> >>>or lazy.
>> >>>
>> >
>> >> Is that a retraction?
>> >
>> >No.
>> >
>>
>> I didn`t think so...
>>
>> >> I all too well understand how computers work, but I also understand
>> >> that I must make computers work for me. At the moment, that means
>> >> using windows to run the apps I require. If that is what you describe
>> >> as "singing praises", then hallelujah. I`m afraid, however, that I am
>> >> just stating a rather bland, unemotional fact.
>> >
>> >Using microsoft's instant messenger is horrible for a myriad of reasons,
>> >only some of which we've actually explored in this thread.
>> >
>>
>> Not really. 'Using' it is fine. The actual protocols used and
>> such-like may indeed be horrible, but as an end user, this doesn`t
>> really concern me.
>>
>> >> "Microsoft makes an OS upon which I productively run several
>> >> applications without undue distress."
>> >
>> >For gods sake, dont use linux.
>> >
>>
>> Why not? I`d rather use linux, but regardless of the maturity of the
>> kernel and windows managers, the maturity of the applications
>> available leaves a lot to be desired. I understand and applaud linux
>> advocates who give honest advice to some people such as "Don`t use
>> linux, you don`t understand what it`s all about, you`re happy with
>> windows, don`t change." , but simply to say don`t use it because I am
>> able to use windows productively *regardless* of the os's limitations
>> is a bit harsh, and smacks of os bigotry - something which I find very
>> disturbing and childish given the otherwise intelligent conversations
>> which I have taken part in.
>>
>> >> Maybe they could use this in their next advertising blitz?
>> >
>> >I dont know, do you think it will work better than "where do you want to
>> >go today?"
>>
>> No, but it would certainly sum up the experiences of the majority of
>> end users.
>>
>> I never did figure out that "where do you want to go today" thing. My
>> first thought is usually "Barbados, but I really have to go to
>> work"...
>>
> Hey I've Installed linux from scratch and I use instant messaging does that
> make me thick or lazy.
No, but run-on sentences and absent commas do.
=====.
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list by posting to comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
