Linux-Advocacy Digest #154, Volume #31 Sun, 31 Dec 00 05:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: if linux is good, why is it so easy to freez it with netscape? (Tim Smith)
Re: Windows - Is It Really Easier to Use? (Tim Smith)
Re: Uptimes ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next? (Will Honea)
Re: Could only... (kiwiunixman)
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Hacker Steals Redhat Linux Source Code ("Lord Metalicat")
creating installable files ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Uptimes ("Tom Wilson")
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Hacker Steals Redhat Linux Source Code ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next? (Richard Steiner)
Re: Uptimes ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Why Advocacy? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Why Advocacy? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Why Advocacy? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Why Advocacy? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Why Advocacy? (Pete Goodwin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tim Smith)
Subject: Re: if linux is good, why is it so easy to freez it with netscape?
Date: 30 Dec 2000 23:55:19 -0800
Reply-To: Tim Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Peter Köhlmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Well, I think the real problem is Netscape is searching for an IP-address
>and does not find it in /etc/hosts or via a DNS-server. So its waiting
>until time-out, which can be quite a while.
There are two problems with Netscape. One is the DNS lookups you've
noted. The symtpom of this is that Netscape stops responding for a
while, but everything else is fine.
The other is that Netscape likes to occasionally consume vast amounts of
memory, especially when displaying a page that is large. Linux tries
very hard to accomodate programs that use lots of resources, and
sometimes ends up appearing to hang because it is doing lots of swapping
to try to get memory for Netscape.
--Tim Smith
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tim Smith)
Subject: Re: Windows - Is It Really Easier to Use?
Date: 30 Dec 2000 23:59:55 -0800
Reply-To: Tim Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 02:22:53 GMT, Les Mikesell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >Was it too difficult to see that big picture in the middle of the screen
>> >labeled 'Custom' install. If you didn't want any choices, why are
>> >you complaining that it did what you told it to do?
>>
>> Where on the Mandrake box or documentation does it say you have to do a
>> custom install to get support?
>
>Get support? I thought you said you didn't like it because choosing
>'server' install gave you a server. You choose custom install if
>you want a choice of which X version to install.
Read the fricking thread. He bought a boxed Linux, in order to get
support. There was nothing in the install that told him that choosing
"server" would give him an unsupported system. Most sane people would
expect that if any install option gave an unsupported system, it would
be the "custom" option.
If they are installing an unsupported X when he chooses "server", then
the problem is their installer is buggy.
--Tim Smith
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Uptimes
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 02:28:26 -0600
"Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:ZVA36.799$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Questioning statistics isn't exclusively the right of Microsoft fanatics.
> I base my opinions not on Netcraft numbers, but with prior experience.
>
> Non-MS OS's have better uptimes.
>
> Period.
>
> End of story.
Well, I have dissimilar experiences. I've had Linux boxes crash dialy, and
NT systems stay up months. I've also seen it the other way around as well.
All this proves is that your own experience is not the reality of everyone.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Will Honea)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.apps,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.networking.tcp-ip,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next?
Date: 31 Dec 2000 01:27:25 -0700
On Sun, 31 Dec 2000 06:14:38 "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Gary Hallock wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ever edit a pre-existing file in xedit on a 3270...and try to
> > > append characters to the end of a line.
> > >
> >
> > It works perfectly. You have apparently never used xedit.
>
> Actually Xedit was the 2nd editor I ever used.
>
> The FIRST editor I ever used was IBM edit (paper teletype).
>
> When we got 3270 terminals, I used xedit.
>
> At the time, it seemed ok. Then, I went to purdue.
>
> Even the braindamaged "se" screen-editor running on v7 Unix (PDP-11)
> was a hell of a lot better.
>
>
>
> > >
> > > Now...exactly HOW does one do that without first going through the
> > > insanely ridiculous procedure of deleting characters that aren't even
> > > there in the first place.
> >
> > You move the cursor to the end of the line (there is a PF key to do that)
> > and start typing. What is the problem?
>
> The problem is that if you move the cursor to the end of a line,
> and start typing, you will notice that the little "X" symbol at the
> bottom of the screen appears, indicating that the program is not
> accepting your input....however, if you hit the "delete" key a number
> of times, xedit WILL allow you to do this.
>
> I also observed this same behavior when attempting to insert
> characters in the middle of a line when editing a pre-existing file.
Only time I ever saw this was when brain-dead PROGRAMMER blank filled
the lines of the text to get fixed length lines!
BTW, would you mind clipping your sig stuff to 4 lines or so? My
fingers get tired skipping all that junk.
--
Will Honea <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: kiwiunixman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Could only...
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 08:56:05 GMT
Even if, in the remote chance a tyrannical authority took office, fuck
all could be done considering less than 50% of elegiable American voters
actually turn up on the day....so much for being the symbol of
democracy! Lets look at the examples you have given:
Mao, father of modern day China, had the west not fucked around in
china, the instability, hence collapse of China would never of happened.
Also, it is typical that an American views China's Government as being
tyrannical, yet does not know anything about the Asian, let alone,
Chinese culture. Typical Western analysis, anything differenet must be
tyrannical.
Hitler was created because of the harse penalties imposed by the alies
after WWI. Several sources outside the negotiations warned this would
happen, yet nobody heeded their warning.
Stalin, Russia required leadership with an iron fist, had it not happen,
much of Russia would have collapsed during the Second World War and
afterwards.
Pol-Pot, a by product of the Vietnam War = America's responsibility.
Aaron, please use examples that do not slant towards the typical
simplistic western way of thinking.
kiwiunixman
Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> eXistenZ wrote:
>
>> In article <92feq6$m9o$04$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> says...
>>
>>
>>> But don´t forget, not rifles are killing, the guy at the trigger makes the
>>> problem. Otherwise Switzerland would be empty.
>>
>> I Don't know the reason why, but compared to the US Switzerland *is*
>> empty.
>>
>>
>>> And deadly violence can
>>> happen without gunsmoke. If you want a real adventure, get dark skin and
>>> have a walk through Magdeburg in the evening. It´s not a problem caused by
>>> weapons, it´s a problem in the brains.
>>
>> I agree, but still I don't think that arming people would be the
>> solution. Far from it.
>
>
> Every mass-murderer of this century (Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc.)
> disarmed the citizens first.
>
>
> Therefore, it is easily demonstrated that to keep government closet-thugs
> IN THE CLOSET it is necessary to have a well-armed citizenry.
>
> Remove the ability of the people to resist government agents, and you
> risk a bloodbath on the proportion of MILLIONS.
>
> Remember...Government is POWER...and POWER ATTRACTS CRIMINALS.
>
> THEREFORE, powerful government jobs ATTRACT CRIMINALS.
>
>
>
>
>
>> eXistenZ
>> --
>> After three days in the desert fun
>> I was looking at a river bed
>> And the story it told of a river that flowed
>> Made me sad to think it was dead
--
"Like a midget at a urinal, you gotta keep on your toes"
Naked Gun 33 1/3
"Like a blind man at an orgy, you gotta feel your way out"
Naked Gun 33 1/3
____
Unix Programmer:
"If it an't broken, don't fix it"
Microsoft Programmer:
"If it an't broken and working perfectly, then there must be a problem"
------------------------------
From: "Lord Metalicat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: EXCLUSIVE: Hacker Steals Redhat Linux Source Code
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 10:01:30 +0100
Must be a really smart ass to steal Open Source..
- Lord Metalicat
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: creating installable files
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 08:58:02 GMT
Does anyone know where I can find information on creating installable
files for linux using tar? Happy New Year.
Thanks
William Claster
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Uptimes
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 09:19:47 GMT
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:v2C36.4581$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:ZVA36.799$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Questioning statistics isn't exclusively the right of Microsoft
fanatics.
> > I base my opinions not on Netcraft numbers, but with prior experience.
> >
> > Non-MS OS's have better uptimes.
> >
> > Period.
> >
> > End of story.
>
> Well, I have dissimilar experiences. I've had Linux boxes crash dialy,
and
> NT systems stay up months. I've also seen it the other way around as
well.
>
> All this proves is that your own experience is not the reality of
everyone.
Exactly!
It just goes to show how bogus some of these debates actually are.
You weren't expecting that answer, huh?
My personal experiences largely revolve around Web Servers and software
development. *nix servers, once set up properly, are boxes I can pretty much
forget and take for granted. (Until a piece of hardware craps out) OTH, I've
had to get out of bed and go to an office in my bathrobe to reboot an NT web
server on several occasions. I refuse to have anything to do with them now.
They're a breeze to set up, but, not-a-breeze to live with. The place I'm
hacking for now is gearing up a web strategy and I was going to refuse to be
a part of it until I heard that the solution would be non-MS. Turns out the
head honcho had his fair share of NT run-ins too. Marching to an office in
fuzzy slippers is something we prefer not to do again!
--
Tom Wilson
Sunbelt Software Solutions
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: EXCLUSIVE: Hacker Steals Redhat Linux Source Code
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 09:23:46 GMT
"Lord Metalicat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Must be a really smart ass to steal Open Source..
I'd like to see someone steal Microsoft source then give it back to them --
Fully debugged. ;)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Steiner)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.apps,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.networking.tcp-ip,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 03:14:03 -0600
Here in comp.os.os2.misc, "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
spake unto us, saying:
>Trevor Hemsley wrote:
>
>> SET NULLS ON and save it in your profile.
>
>AS I said...IBM's standards for programming are deficient.
>
>You shouldn't have to set a flag to indicate that you want behavior
>that SHOULD BE STANDARD IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Different users can have vastly different sets of preferences, and what
is a common-sense setting for you might cause another user some serious
problems.
As the programmer who maintains the mainframe text editor that many in
my programming group use (UEDIT on OS2200), I've decided that adding a
configurable item is vastly preferable to hard-coding behavior because
I've seen a number of occasions where my own preference set disagrees
quite strongly with the preferences of some of my coworkers.
Be thankful a configurable parameter was included. IMhO, not including
such would be bad programming.
What you are describing is little more than a disagreement w.r.t. the
editor's default settings, and that has little or nothing to do with
the quality of the code involved. Talk to the maintainer!
--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS
+ PC/GEOS + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
Docs? Why look at Docs? Nurses are better! :-)
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Uptimes
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 03:57:11 -0600
"Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:TSC36.1587$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:v2C36.4581$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:ZVA36.799$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Questioning statistics isn't exclusively the right of Microsoft
> fanatics.
> > > I base my opinions not on Netcraft numbers, but with prior experience.
> > >
> > > Non-MS OS's have better uptimes.
> > >
> > > Period.
> > >
> > > End of story.
> >
> > Well, I have dissimilar experiences. I've had Linux boxes crash dialy,
> and
> > NT systems stay up months. I've also seen it the other way around as
> well.
> >
> > All this proves is that your own experience is not the reality of
> everyone.
>
> Exactly!
>
> It just goes to show how bogus some of these debates actually are.
> You weren't expecting that answer, huh?
>
> My personal experiences largely revolve around Web Servers and software
> development. *nix servers, once set up properly, are boxes I can pretty
much
> forget and take for granted. (Until a piece of hardware craps out) OTH,
I've
> had to get out of bed and go to an office in my bathrobe to reboot an NT
web
> server on several occasions. I refuse to have anything to do with them
now.
> They're a breeze to set up, but, not-a-breeze to live with. The place I'm
> hacking for now is gearing up a web strategy and I was going to refuse to
be
> a part of it until I heard that the solution would be non-MS. Turns out
the
> head honcho had his fair share of NT run-ins too. Marching to an office in
> fuzzy slippers is something we prefer not to do again!
This is a rather silly argument. Even if we were to take at face value that
your experience with NT has been such, there is absolutely no reason you
should have to drive somewhere to reboot the server.
If it were really a problem, there are any number of solutions to the
problem, some of them hardware based, some of them software based (for
instance, you might have a watchdog machine that does HTTP requests
periodically and if the server fails to respond for any length of time, it
does a remote reboot. If the system is blue screened, then you can tell NT
to reboot automatically on a blue screen. If the entire server is locked up
(even network services), something i've never seen that wasn't hardware
related (bad memory, failed hard drive with swap partiiton on it, etc..),
then you could spend a few hundred dollars on a remote power cycle switch if
you're that paranoid.
None of these solutions requires you to go anywhere in the middle of the
night, and any shop that was worried about such problems and doesn't use
these techniqes or something similar ones isn't worth what you're paying
them. You might argue that they should be unnecessary, and i'd agree.
However, I have seen shops where their own apps had memory leaks or other
problems that would eventually cause the server to stop responding (using up
all memory is a good way to do that, even in Unix (yes, yes.. I know about
ulimits, i'm just making a point)).
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Advocacy?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 09:58:36 +0000
Mig wrote:
> I miss the point in having two toolkits if they look and behave the same.
> This is no different than claiming that OS X should look exactly like
> Win2000 because the both operate on a computer. It simply does not make
> sense.
I think what I'm getting at is that the differences mean the end user has
to relearn everything for each toolkit. That's not a big problem per se,
but sufficient to cause confusion.
For instance, in Netscape, if you right click on an image, the menu
disappears if you let go. If you right click on an image in KDE konqueror,
nothing happens. These kind of differences make it annoying using
applications on X.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Advocacy?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 09:59:31 +0000
Mig wrote:
> Yes it has. Im using 0,3,3 from KDE 2.0.1 and they are there.. if i
> remenber correct it was also in 0.3.2.
> Select Settings->Preferences->Reading news->Filters
Sorry, wrong term. There's no killfile in knode.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Advocacy?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 10:00:43 +0000
Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> Proving that Pete Goodwin is lying.
I'm not lying.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Advocacy?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 10:06:30 +0000
Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> Considering that the ONLY thing in rc.6 is S20reboot, call me skeptical.
Maybe I'll call you a liar:
ls rc.d/rc6.d
K00linuxconf@ K15numlock@ K30mcserv@ K50snmpd@ K65identd@
K92anacron@ S00killall@
K05keytable@ K20kheader@ K30usb@ K50xinetd@ K75netfs@
K92ipchains@ S01reboot@
K10xfs@ K20rstatd@ K35fetchmail@ K55routed@ K80random@
K95harddrake@
K10xntpd@ K20rusersd@ K35smb@ K60atd@ K82autofs@
K95kudzu@
K11drakfont@ K25squid@ K40ldap@ K60crond@ K89portmap@
K97sound@
K15gpm@ K28amd@ K44rawdevices@ K60cups@ K90network@
K99syslog@
Tha'ts what's in my rc6.d directory on my Linux Mandrake 7.2 system.
On my other system:
ls /etc/rc.d/rc6.d
K00linuxconf@ K15postgresql@ K25sshd@ K44rawdevices@ K60crond@
K83ypbind@ S00killall@
K05innd@ K20bootparamd@ K28amd@ K45arpwatch@ K60cups@
K89portmap@ S01reboot@
K05keytable@ K20kheader@ K30postfix@ K45named@ K65identd@
K90network@
K10xfs@ K20nfs@ K30usb@ K50snmpd@ K75gated@
K92anacron@
K15gpm@ K20nfslock@ K35dhcpd@ K50xinetd@ K75netfs@
K92ipchains@
K15httpd@ K20webmin@ K35smb@ K55routed@ K80random@
K97sound@
K15numlock@ K25squid@ K40ldap@ K60atd@ K82autofs@
K99syslog@
> Demonstrating once again that you're talking out your ass, as usual.
Judging by the above, it looks like you're the one talking out of your ass.
But then your signal to noise ratio never was very good was it?
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Advocacy?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 10:07:17 +0000
Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> Now you've got to the root of the problem.
>
> Pete goodwin is a lazy SOB, and wants to whine....
And we all know what your problem is, don't we.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
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