Linux-Advocacy Digest #921, Volume #31 Fri, 2 Feb 01 22:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: What do you do if your language of discussion is subverted? (Donn Miller)
Re: Storm Linux & Applixware ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Linux is a fad? (mlw)
Re: NTFS Limitations ("Chad Myers")
Suggestions (SERIOUS ones please) requested (Alan Peterson)
Re: NTFS Limitations (Was: RE: Red hat becoming illegal?) ("Chad Myers")
Re: NTFS Limitations (Was: RE: Red hat becoming illegal?) ("Chad Myers")
Re: Windows Stability (Bob Hauck)
Re: Linux is a fad? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Suggestions (SERIOUS ones please) requested (Mark Styles)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 21:19:10 -0500
Steve Mading wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : Ian Davey wrote:
> :>
> :> You've still not managed to convince me. But perhaps it's just a matter of
> :> semantics, Atheism is a lack of *religious* beliefs (theism), but not a lack
> :> of belief. Does that work better for you? So an Atheist believes something
> :> other than religion.
>
> : There's an old law of military command:
>
> : Failure to come to a decision is a decision in itself.
>
> : Do the math.
>
> "Failure to come to a decision is a decision" is self
> contradictory. It fits the patern: X == not(X).
Stop being pedantic, and try understanding the MEANING of the statement.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 21:22:31 -0500
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What do you do if your language of discussion is subverted?
Adam Warner wrote:
> That question cannot even be sensibly asked if Microsoft is able to
> manipulate what certain phrases mean, such as "open source." We have seen
> that Microsoft is employing the term "open" in their restrictive licensing
> practices, and now Microsoft (through Miller) is now telling the world that
> the Windows source code should indeed be considered open.
It depends on how you define the phrase "open source". Basically,
Microsoft is allowing companies access to its source code (and even
then, only partial access) only under a strict contractual agreement.
What the Open Source community (basically, the Linux and FreeBSD users
and developers, among others) considers "open source" is allowing the
public at large full and unrestricted access to an operating system's
source code. Since MS is not allowing the public at large full and
unrestricted access to its source code, it is not "open source". Again,
Microsoft is distorting a definition to suit its own needs.
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Storm Linux & Applixware
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 21:22:50 -0500
Charlie Ebert wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> >Charlie Ebert wrote:
>
> Mr. Kulkis, A moment please.
>
> >>
> >> The GPL will prevent ANYBODY from dominating ANY market with Linux
> >> or HURD.
> >
> >No...the GPL merely means that anybody who does dominate the Linux
> >world will have to EARN the position by producing a superior product
> >at a reasonable price.
> >
>
> This IS also TRUE.
>
> But to get across to our T.V. land audience, the GPL also
> means *YOU CAN'T* steal my stuff.
>
> You may contribute to the pile, but you ain't gonna take
> the pile away from me or anybody else.
>
> And besides, we have to examine the commerical hog RedHat.
> They are NOT producing a superior product and THEY HAVE
> THE MARKET...
Won't last for long unless they improve.
>
> And IBM *HAS* appearently learned from them.
>
> Wonder what ever happened to our esteemed Mr. Ballard?
>
he's still around.
> He should be popping in here any microsecond now.
>
> Charlie
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is a fad?
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 21:28:33 -0500
"--==<( Jeepster )>==--" wrote:
> a) buy software off the shelves
Microcenter in my area has a whole section of the store for Linux, where do you
shop.
>
> b) play the latest games
I just don't get the bit about computer games, if I want games and fun, I go
out with friends. Never the less, there are many games for Linux.
>
> c) use the latest hardware (do the words USB still strike fear into your
> heart?...it should, as far as I know only mice & keyboards are
> supported....oh dear)
I do not have any USB peripherals, when they become competitive with
traditional counterparts, and I have need, I will get them. The 2.4 kernel
seems to have very good support for USB.
>
> d) not worry that the libraries will get broken if i had to install beta
> test software.
Ahem, what? Have you know idea what .dll hell is in Windows?
>
> e) use a good browser rather than the beta offerings or the half finished
> offerings given to linux users. LOL - case in point Netscape 4.x/6 and
> Konqueror..... NOW thats BAD.
I have yet to see a browser that I would consider good software. They all
crash, Windows, Linux, etc. At least in Linux, it doesn't take down the
machine.
>
> f) worry about getting the latest Kernel and then buggering it all up
> because the kernel needs to be patched to enable sound, PPP etc etc rah rah
> rah
This is flat out incorrect. What ever distribution you have will have a recent
kernel should you ever need an update. I have yet to see a Linux distribution
that needs a patch for ppp.
>
> g) I can use standard applications at home and then go into any office and
> hey, the same things...wow......
So do I.
>
> h) avoid arcane command line crap....i mean, who the hell wants to go
> through an entire user manual to get the sound card to initialise and then
> find it wont ?
This is a compatibility issue, not a usability issue. I have seen plenty of
sound cards that have a 95/98 driver but not an NT or 2K driver, or a 98/2K
driver, but not a 95/NT driver.
So what?
>
> i) who would want to sacrifice a Windows/Windows solution for a
> Linux/Windows integrated solution until there is some more solid, documented
> applications and cases that have already tried it and detailed the pros and
> cons? Linux has a long way to go before stepping up to the corporate
> plate...
I know of several companies that are using Oracle on Linux with an apache web
server (also Linux).
My current company has a Windows NT (not 2K, 'not proven') domain controller,
and all samba servers. Oracle on solaris and Linux, apache on a web farm of
servers.
I know of a couple of companies that went the "MS Solution Provider" path with
MS SQL and IIS, and eventually bailed because it was not stable enough and are
now using Linux.
I have yet to see one company, first hand, that has tried a fully MS solution
and been happy with it. I have seen many companies that were scared to go
Linux, but glad they did.
In answer to your question? Smart people that can out think FUD.
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NTFS Limitations
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 02:13:33 GMT
"Steve Mading" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:95fmge$dju$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> : So, with that, I ask you guys:
> : 1. Why is Linux the most vulnerable web server platform?
>
> I don't know. Have you stopped beating your wife yet?
*PL0NK*
Now I KNOW that even YOU don't know what the hell you're talking about.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: Alan Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Suggestions (SERIOUS ones please) requested
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 02:31:42 GMT
Can anyone direct me to a source of info -- print, web or otherwise
-- describing only the fundamentals of tying together three Win machines
to a Linux server and what it would take for them to communicate? This
is for a simple home rig only.
Before someone suggests "Ditch the Windows machines entirely", I
WOULD in a second if there were comparable multitrack audio editing
programs available that would run under Linux. I am locked into what my
local machines must be and do, but the server is up for grabs.
Any suggestion/direction is welcome, as long as it is relevant and
not a rant.
Thx. -ap
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NTFS Limitations (Was: RE: Red hat becoming illegal?)
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 02:17:38 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:95ehmi$pgs$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:95e9k7$4mh$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > Ayende Rahien wrote in message <95e6f8$j6n$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> > >>
> > >> You forgot disk defragmentation APIs - MS has managed to ship a
> > >defragmenter
> > >> with their DOS+Win line for years, and they have done all the hard work
> > in
> > >> the defragmentation API, yet they still failed to produce a
> defragmenter
> > >for
> > >> NT 4. Even for w2k, they had to buy in a third-party defragmenter.
> > >
> > >Well, the defragmentation APIs for win9x are likely to be totally useless
> > >for NT. Totally different file systems, but for the FAT partitions, yes,
> > >they should've probably taken the APIs, but then, it's a 9x code, I
> *don't*
> > >want it in NT.
> > >For a start, NT4 didn't ship with a degragmantor(sp?) because it was
> > >believed that NTFS doesn't fragement (it does, but it handle the
> situation
> > >nicely).
> > >As for 2K, you've to consider several things:
> > ><A> How much it would cost them to develop their own defragmentor.
> > ><B> How efficent it would be?
> > ><C> Can they buy or license already working product that would be as
> > >efficent (or reasonably efficent, at least) at a lower price?
> > >
> > >If <C>, then there is no need to spend more money than you've to.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > NTFS is terrible for fragmentation. It may be better than FAT, but it is
> > still terrible.
>
> Terrible? Please expend.
>
> > In Win9x, the defrag program needs to do all the work itself - it needs an
> > understanding of exactly how data is stored on the drive, and uses direct
> > disk access to move it around. Under NT, there is an API allowing a
> defrag
> > program to get a disk map, and allowing it to move file sections to
> > different physical locations. This means that a user program can do the
> > defragmenting without any direct disk access - it is perfectly safe
> > (assuming, of course, that NT and NTFS are perfectly safe), even while
> other
> > programs are accessing the same files.
> >
> > A defrag program consists of three parts - a pretty GUI, an algorithm for
> > deciding which files should go where, and a low-level access part to do
> the
> > actual file manipulation in a safe way. The first two parts should be
> > roughly the same for a Win9x and an NT defrag program, regardless of the
> > file system used (although that may cause some small changes to the
> > algorithm). The low-level part is completly different for Win9x and NT,
> but
> > in NT's case it is already built-in to the OS. So if the Win9x defrag
> > program is reasonably modular, a couple of microserfs should be able to
> put
> > together an NT defrag program in a few weeks.
>
> A> I don't want a user-level program to be able to do this. It has to be
> Admin level access at the very least.
> B> AFAIK, there isn't NT defrag APIs, at least not on NT4, which is why they
> licensed some one else code for the 2K defrager.
Executive Software (makers of DiskKeeper) requested MS put cluster mapping
and remapping APIs in the kernel to aid in defragmenting the disk.
http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/info/defrag.shtml
FSCTL_GET_VOLUME_BITMAP
FSCTL_GET_RETRIEVAL_POINTERS
FSCTL_MOVE_FILE
FSCTL_READ_MFT_RECORD
These were added as part of the NtFsControlFile native function.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NTFS Limitations (Was: RE: Red hat becoming illegal?)
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 02:21:01 GMT
"Daza" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:95etd2$ib1$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:OLye6.2162$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Chad Myers wrote:
> > >
> > > > "J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > Chad Myers wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > The SMP design still (in 2.4) lacks behind most other
> > > > > > SMP implementations out there.
> > > > >
> > > > > Such as?
> > > >
> > > > NT 4.0, Windows 2000, most higher grade Unixes such as Solaris and
> > > > AIX, and several others. Basically, the big boys.
> > >
> > > You've just proved my point.
> > >
> > > First of all, don't include your pc operating system
> > > in the same sentence as Unix, it just makes you
> > > look silly.
> >
> > Should be the other way around.
> >
> > Reference: tpc.org
> >
> > Windows 2000 owns #1 - #4. Unix is silly.
> >
> > -Chad
>
> Erm, maybe you should look at the tpc results more closely. Windows2000
> does not appear in the top ten *Non-clustered* results. This implies that
> Wintel SMP systems do not scale well.
No, it's just that there aren't 192-processor Intel boxes. Which, I'm not
sure if you'd want one anyhow. I'd much rather have an OS that clusters
extremely well and allows for more fault tolerance than putting all your
eggs into one extremely large and underperforming box.
The 2k clusters perform far better for less than a fifth of the cost of the
mega-iron boxes (in most cases) and in far less processors.
> The only way to get Wintel to give high-end performance is to use
> clustering.
Which isn't a bad thing. In fact, in most cases, it's a good thing.
That is, unless you're strawmanning.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows Stability
Reply-To: b o b h {at} h a u c k s {dot} o r g
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 02:43:40 GMT
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 08:49:08 -0000, Daza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Is this "Himalaya" what used to be Tandem Computer Corp?
>Yep. When Compaq bought Tandem and Digital to enter the high end arena,
>they decided to harmonise the brand names to "Compaq". Tandem is still a
>division within Compaq however. Himalaya is just the generic name for RISC
>based Compaq Nonstop servers.
Thanks for the info. I've never had anything to do with such systems,
just hear about them from others. Nice to know that Compaq didn't kill
it off.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux is a fad?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 03:01:22 GMT
On Fri, 02 Feb 2001 21:28:33 -0500, mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Microcenter in my area has a whole section of the store for Linux, where do you
>shop.
Ask a sales person why the boxes are dusty and how many customers buy
Linux programs.
I do it all the time and the answer is always the same.
>I do not have any USB peripherals, when they become competitive with
>traditional counterparts, and I have need, I will get them. The 2.4 kernel
>seems to have very good support for USB.
Competitive?
Try to NOT buy a USB device and see what happens.
For better or worse USB is the new standard.
Of course like with most standards, Linux need not apply.
>
>Ahem, what? Have you know idea what .dll hell is in Windows?
Yep.
Something that was a nightmare under Win95a.
>
>I have yet to see a browser that I would consider good software. They all
>crash, Windows, Linux, etc. At least in Linux, it doesn't take down the
>machine.
Sour grapes.
Only browser that crashes under Windows is Netscape.
Opera sucks, and if they think people will PAY for it they are stark
raving mad.
>This is flat out incorrect. What ever distribution you have will have a recent
>kernel should you ever need an update. I have yet to see a Linux distribution
>that needs a patch for ppp.
Oh yea?
Take a look in the setup groups and see how many newbies can't find
ppp.
>> g) I can use standard applications at home and then go into any office and
>> hey, the same things...wow......
>
>So do I.
Doubtful.
>This is a compatibility issue, not a usability issue. I have seen plenty of
>sound cards that have a 95/98 driver but not an NT or 2K driver, or a 98/2K
>driver, but not a 95/NT driver.
>So what?
There are many, many,many more that either half work under Linsux, or
just plain don't work at all.
Like most hardware.
>
>I know of several companies that are using Oracle on Linux with an apache web
>server (also Linux).
A couple of months ago Oracle was screaming foul at Linsux and how
slow development of Linsux was going.
Big articles in Infoworld and EWeek.
>My current company has a Windows NT (not 2K, 'not proven') domain controller,
>and all samba servers. Oracle on solaris and Linux, apache on a web farm of
>servers.
And how many Linux desktops, excepting you of course?
>I know of a couple of companies that went the "MS Solution Provider" path with
>MS SQL and IIS, and eventually bailed because it was not stable enough and are
>now using Linux.
And how many Linux desktops?
>I have yet to see one company, first hand, that has tried a fully MS solution
>and been happy with it. I have seen many companies that were scared to go
>Linux, but glad they did.
And how many Linux desktops?
>In answer to your question? Smart people that can out think FUD.
Smart people stick with standards, like four wheels on a car.
They are also the ones most likely to keep their jobs.
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: Mark Styles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Suggestions (SERIOUS ones please) requested
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 22:04:25 -0500
On Sat, 03 Feb 2001 02:31:42 GMT, Alan Peterson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Can anyone direct me to a source of info -- print, web or otherwise
>-- describing only the fundamentals of tying together three Win machines
>to a Linux server and what it would take for them to communicate? This
>is for a simple home rig only.
Install linux with full networking support on your server
Connect up your lan, assigning ip addresses in a private range to each
of your PCs (including the server of course)
Make sure you can ping back and forth between the PCs
Configure Samba to be your win domain server, and your Win PCs to
recognize that as their server.
That's about it, unless you want an internet gateway too, then you
need a 2nd ethernet card or a modem in your server, and an
ipchains/iptables firewall.
I suggest reading the various networking HOW-TOs, here:
http://www.linux.org/docs/ldp/howto/HOWTO-INDEX/howtos.html
------------------------------
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