Linux-Advocacy Digest #81, Volume #32 Fri, 9 Feb 01 18:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: Interesting article ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"! ("Edward Rosten")
Re: You think you've got it bad ? ("Edward Rosten")
Re: The Wintrolls (Donn Miller)
Re: You think you've got it bad ? ("Edward Rosten")
Re: NTFS Limitations (Steve Mading)
Re: Linux Servers require Weekly Rebooting (Cool Microsoft FUD and Warner research
for your reading pleasure) (Mig)
Re: Whistler/.NET will Help Linux (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"! ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"! (Donn Miller)
Re: You think you've got it bad ?
Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Re: Peformance Test (Matthew Gardiner)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:17:17 +0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron Kulkis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Fermin Sanchez wrote:
>>
>> Hi Peter
>>
>> "Peter Köhlmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>
>> > OS/2 also has a quite decent implementation of TCP/IP, different from
>> > that MS-shit.
>>
>> Which parts of MS's TCP/IP implementation don't you like? On which
>> Windows versions? Please be more specific.
>
> The part that crashes the OS.
Isn't that the whole thing?
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:26:46 +0000
In article <cXZg6.4550$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Pete Goodwin"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Edward Rosten wrote:
>
>> Is gimp printing to the correct printer?
>
> I guess not.
>
>> When you go to file->print, it gives you a printer option. Pick the
>> correct one. This is really quite liek windows. The result is the same:
>> if you pick the correct printer, it will print OK, otherwise, you will
>> get garbage.
>
> It's nothing like Windows.
Yes it is. Under windows, if you install the wrong driver, then you get
garbage out of the printer.
> What you're saying is that The Gimp has its
> own drivers for printers!
No, I'm saying Gimp produces nothing but postscript. Pick the correct
printer from the list of installed printers.
> Sheesh! Windows left that kind of nonsense
So has Linux. You're putting words in to my mouth. Don't do that.
> behind a while ago. If Windows, the inferior product, can do it, why
> not Linux?
Linux can, and does on my computer. I think yours is set up incorrectly.
When you try to print from GIMP it will give you a list of print queues. Pick
the correct one.
>> In RH (I don't know about Mandrake), by default, it gives the printers
>> unhelpful names (lp, lp0, lp1...), but you can rename them or give them
>> additional names that are more useful. I expect you can do the same
>> very easily in Mandrake. That should make printing to the wrong printer
>> rather harder to do by accident.
>
> I've only got the one printer. Why would I need multiple names for one
> printer?
I have several set up. One for graphics, one for text and one for text
where it prints the pages really small. If you give them 2 names each,
one is quick to type from the command line and the other is descriptive,
and easy to pick from the GUI.
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: You think you've got it bad ?
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:27:34 +0000
In article <iYZg6.4558$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Pete Goodwin"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Joel Barnett wrote:
>
>> I do a clean install of Win98 SE, goes just fine. Video card is
>> automatically detected, driver installed, ditto the P'n'P monitor.
>> Problem is, it goes through detecting and setting them up almost
>> everytime I restart. Of course at the end of the process, it tells me I
>> need to reboot to make the 'new' settings effective. If I select
>> 'cancel' instead, I only get 16 color display. How the bloody hell do
>> you make Windows stop this idiocy ?
>
> Get a better video card or better drivers.
>
>> My LM 7.2 pc doesn't have this problem. Is there another distro of
>> Windows I could try ? What are my options ?
>
> Try another driver.
>
> At least with Windows I get one printer driver that everything uses.
>
That's pure bollocks. Every different brand of printer (and many
different models too) require different drivers.
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 17:27:57 -0500
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Wintrolls
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> Do you even *TRY* to follow the thread? I was commenting that I had to
> upgrade RPM to get the files, and J Sloan was advocating downloading the
> source from XFree86.org and compiling it.
I usually build XFree86 from source. Takes forever, because I could
never get parallel builds to work without bombing out someplace. Oh
yeah, and I use -O3, which prolongs the build even further.
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------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: You think you've got it bad ?
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:28:27 +0000
In article <iYZg6.4558$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Pete Goodwin"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Joel Barnett wrote:
>
>> I do a clean install of Win98 SE, goes just fine. Video card is
>> automatically detected, driver installed, ditto the P'n'P monitor.
>> Problem is, it goes through detecting and setting them up almost
>> everytime I restart. Of course at the end of the process, it tells me I
>> need to reboot to make the 'new' settings effective. If I select
>> 'cancel' instead, I only get 16 color display. How the bloody hell do
>> you make Windows stop this idiocy ?
>
> Get a better video card or better drivers.
>
>> My LM 7.2 pc doesn't have this problem. Is there another distro of
>> Windows I could try ? What are my options ?
>
> Try another driver.
>
> At least with Windows I get one printer driver that everything uses.
Re: my previous post...
Unless you mean one printer which every app uses. (sorry).
Same under linux. Your point?
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NTFS Limitations
Date: 9 Feb 2001 22:27:46 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:> But the thing is, the software interface to those things is IDENTICAL
:> to what it was on the old motherboard. Having to 're-detect' them
:> is just a stupid Micorosoftism. I have done the motherboard and
:> hard drive transplant thing, and Kudzu (the redhat device detector)
:> noticed no new hardware, and everything ran fine with no changes to
:> the settings at all.
: Heh... if the object of the debate is to have both of us admit that Win9x
: is brain dead in its decision making, then I think our mission is
: accomplished... =)
Well, the original argument was about software drivers, and whether
hardware vendors will insist upon them staying closed source. Someone
brought up the motherboard swap and I said this doesn't count because
that doesn't require 'drivers' like peripherals do, and that's when
this side topic came up. It's sort of relevant to establish whether
or not the way Win98 *appears* to have drivers for the motherboard
shoots down my claim that motherboards don't need driver software. That
is why it became relevant whether Win98 was telling the truth or
not when it claimed it was installing "drivers" for motherboard
devices.
: What version of Redhat involves Kudzu? I've never used it or seen it in
: action, but the latest version of Redhat I've seen is 6.0...
I don't know when it was first introduced. It showed up when I
went from 5.2 to 6.2. It is usually rather silent, amounting to
nothing more than a one-line message during boot. It only makes
itself noticed when it discovers a change in hardware that it thinks
it knows how to deal with.
--
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Steven L. Mading at BioMagResBank (BMRB). UW-Madison
Programmer/Analyst/(acting SysAdmin) mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
B1108C, Biochem Addition / 433 Babcock Dr / Madison, WI 53706-1544
------------------------------
From: Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Servers require Weekly Rebooting (Cool Microsoft FUD and Warner
research for your reading pleasure)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 23:25:53 +0100
Adam Warner wrote:
> Hi Mig,
>
> > Hopefully you grabbed the info so that it can be used later on
> counter-FUD.
>
> I did print all the info out. You never know when everything will
> disappear.
Well, MS tends ro remove information from their website when it dows not
fit in (noticed this behaviour on their support site), so it would be great
to have these pages - with images + everything - in electronic form for
documentational purposes.
> > What about posting factual information like this on phorums used by MS
> > or coming MS customers ?
>
> Someone can feel free to forward/rewrite this in, for example,
> nt.advocacy. I just appreciate the lack of noise. You will notice that I
> have received no responses to this or Microsoft's SBS 2000 versus Linux
> article from any steadfast Microsoft supporter. They're embarrassed at
> Microsoft's conduct. That's fine. Sometimes silence can be deafening.
The advocacy newsgroups dont have any weight. It looks as Linux is under
direct attack from MS at the moment... just look at their FUD-"actions"
just the previous weeks. I do recall comments about how they dealed with
OS/2 in phorums used by IBM OS/2 customers and expect the same behaviour
against Linux. What i would like to know is what are the arenas the will
choose - i doubt advocay groups have any interst since people here are too
"geeky" and cant be convinced this way.
> This is a very funny commentary on how anti-Linux rhetoric has shifted
> over the years:
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2682654,00.html
Yes... amuzing article
--
Cheers
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Whistler/.NET will Help Linux
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:31:34 GMT
Very interesting the way Microsoft is going, however, even UNIX vendors
are not this paranoid. For example, IRIX 6.5.10, which is quite an
expensive OS, yet does not require "forced registration" or "node
locked" registration, neither does SUN, IBM or HP require this, the only
time I have seen it, however, is with the likes of SUN Workshop C/C++
which was node locked, and required registration. As in terms of
pir8ing, the main motivation be hind it is not because they want to rip
of Microsoft or make themselves feel like Mr/Mrs Secret Service, its
because the software cost's so bloody much. Lets look at Microsoft
Office 2000 vs. Lotus Smart Suite ME 9.5, both do the same thing, except
one is cheaper, more stable and does not require registration. Office
Suite registration is one thing, and most people can get over that, but
when you force people to virtually registering everything under the sun
to "protect" your intellectual property (if that's what you class
Microsoft software as) you are really going to ruffle some feathers. I,
however, would be more than happy if I was compensated for registering
my software, for example, the latest updates, a grab bag of Microsoft
merchandise (sent once) and a magazine are sent to you each month, that
would be handy, and most people would like the fact that they were
getting something back after giving their personal details to Microsoft.
Matthew Gardiner
Mike Martinet wrote:
> From what I've read
>
> http://wired.com/news/business/0,1367,41622,00.html
>
> Microsoft isn't waiting for antitrust legislation to destroy them.
> They're doing it themselves. If I understand correctly, with Whistler,
> people will have to phone in registration numbers to get systems to
> run. And that the copy protection supposedly includes a scheme by which
> the reg. number gets tied to the machine's configuration - hard drive,
> net card, modem, etc. This is insane. If true, people will have to
> re-phone in their regs when they upgrade peripherals!
>
> But it gets better.
>
> Future versions of MS software (upgrades, service packs*, add-ons) will
> only be available online through .NET. This looks like an attempt by MS
> to force people to pay for software on a monthly basis - like cable TV.
>
> So, you change your NIC card and in order to make use of your monthly
> software subscription to get the new driver you have to wait on hold
> with your computer's configuration list for someone to re-enable your
> machine so you can download the software you're already being billed
> for. This sounds neat.
>
> In my experience, copy protection just doesn't work - either at home or
> work. People blithely trade registration numbers and disks and software
> with dongles gets replaced with applications that don't require keeping
> track of a serial-port plug. I can't imagine home users being happy
> about MS using their machines against them.
>
> I think in about 2 years there's going to be a hell of a lot of business
> for people who know how to set up Linux.
>
> *Service pack. What a great marketing spin on the old 'patch', eh? "We
> don't need no stinkin' patches!"
>
> MjM
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:32:43 -0000
On Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:05:39 +0000, Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Edward Rosten wrote:
>
>> It does. You dump out postscript, and let the printer/filter deal with
>> it. Any app can print to any printer.
>
>You can have any colour you like, so long as it's black.
>
>And what happens if you don't like black, or don't have a postscript
>printer?
Use the shiny happy graphical tools provided with Mandrake 7.2
to make the system do the appropriate translation.
[deletia]
--
Common Standards, Common Ownership.
The alternative only leads to destructive anti-capitalist
and anti-democratic monopolies.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:33:51 +0000
In article <L2_g6.4587$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Pete Goodwin"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
> Ah... now I begin to understand.
>
> There's a setup button in The Gimp, next to the paper size (which
> defaults to letter - shame as I use A4). Click on this, and it says
> "Postscript level II". Didn't The Gimp pickup on a global setting - or
> ask the printer
All printers look like postscript printer. Pick the correct queue from
the widget just to the left of the setup button.
> - what it is?
>
> So I picked my printer. I tried to print a picture. And I waited... and
> waited... hey, where's my printout?
> So I switched to a lower resolution (what was wrong with high?) and got
> a printout...
I've never had a problem. The resolution of postscript images is a hint
more than anything else so bitmaps come out better. It doesn't make any
difference, though.
> Linux, the system that thinks every printer is postscript!
Yes... so what's wrong with that? Every app under windows thinks its a
WPS (windows print system) printer. The print driver then sorts it out
and turns it in to control codes and data for the printer. So what? Is
this now turning in to an argument as to why WPS is bther then PS?
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 17:34:46 -0500
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Pete Goodwin wrote:
> So I picked my printer. I tried to print a picture. And I waited... and
> waited... hey, where's my printout?
I tried this too after you said you had problems printing from the
GIMP. When I tried to print the first time, nothing would come out. I
didn't get a printout until I tried to print a *second* time. Also when
I selected "raw1" as my printer, my machine locked solid immediately
after the printout. Looks like I won't be selecting "raw1" any time in
the near future. 8-)
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: You think you've got it bad ?
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:36:05 -0000
On Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:16:08 +0000, Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Joel Barnett wrote:
>
>> I do a clean install of Win98 SE, goes just fine. Video card is
>> automatically detected, driver installed, ditto the P'n'P monitor. Problem
>> is, it goes through detecting and setting them up almost everytime I
>> restart. Of course at the end of the process, it tells me I need to reboot
>> to make the 'new' settings effective. If I select 'cancel' instead, I only
>> get 16 color display. How the bloody hell do you make Windows stop this
>> idiocy ?
>
>Get a better video card or better drivers.
For Windows?
If you can't use a random piece of video hardware, why
put up with the Monopoly?
>
>> My LM 7.2 pc doesn't have this problem. Is there another distro of Windows
>> I could try ? What are my options ?
>
>Try another driver.
That rather defeats the purpose of using the OS that "everyone
uses" and is supposed to be "easy".
>
>At least with Windows I get one printer driver that everything uses.
Gimp will also gladly use the same printer filters that
every other application will. You just insist on NOT
using them.
--
The LGPL does infact tend to be used instead of the GPL in instances
where merely reusing a component, while not actually altering that
component, would be unecessarily burdensome to people seeking to
build their own works.
This dramatically alters the nature and usefulness of Free Software
in practice, contrary to the 'all viral all the time' fantasy the
anti-GPL cabal here would prefer one to believe.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:37:02 -0000
On Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:23:00 +0000, Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
>Ah... now I begin to understand.
>
>There's a setup button in The Gimp, next to the paper size (which defaults
>to letter - shame as I use A4). Click on this, and it says "Postscript
>level II". Didn't The Gimp pickup on a global setting - or ask the printer
>- what it is?
>
>So I picked my printer. I tried to print a picture. And I waited... and
>waited... hey, where's my printout?
It's NOT WinDOS.
Don't treat it like such.
[deletia]
--
Section 8. The Congress shall have power...
To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for
limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their
respective writings and discoveries;
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Peformance Test
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:38:03 GMT
I'll help you out here. Microsoft would have used the 486 as an uptime
server. As for the TPC, it is so un-accurate, its not funny. If you
want to run TPC all day, go ahead and buy a Windows Block, but if you
want to get real work done, use Linux/*BSD (if you are going to use
off-the-shelf INTEL hardware), or if you have the cash, a SUN or IBM
Server w/ Solaris and AIX respectively.
Matthew Gardiner
Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> Mike Martinet wrote:
>
>> Here's a nifty Linux vs. W2k performance test. Round up a Linux
>> distribution (Slack, RH, whatever) and a copy of Win2k. (Using any
>> software other than that provided on the Linux/W2k disks is cheating)
>>
>> Get ahold of a couple of 486-50's with 32M of RAM, a 2.5G HD and network
>> cards. You'll only need one VGA display adapter*. Install on the
>> machines (Hint:do the Linux box first) and configure them as mail
>> servers - pop, sendmail, fetchmail - and nothing else.
>>
>> *Once you've got Linux running, switch the kbd and VGA card from the
>> Linux machine (don't try this in reverse) to the Windows box (you might
>> want to add a mouse at this point).
>>
>> Now measure how much mail each system is capable of handling daily in a
>> 25-user environment.
>>
>>
>> (I *am* smiling)
>>
>>
>
> Well, certainly Chad Myers will chime in and tell us that this is EXACTLY
> the hardware MS used to get the first place in TPC. So, no real contest,
> linux can't win (not against a W2K where the install-cd is not yet ready
> to display the first questions).
>
> Peter
------------------------------
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