Linux-Advocacy Digest #234, Volume #32 Fri, 16 Feb 01 11:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: Interesting article (JamesW)
Re: Politics (was Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else) (Johan Kullstam)
Re: Microsoft says Linux threatens innovation (Tim Hanson)
Re: New kernel 2.4.1 rocks with IPMASQ (Darren Winsper)
Re: Interesting article ("Chad Myers")
Re: Interesting article ("Chad Myers")
Re: Yum! A new laptop screen, i thinks ill fry it! (meow)
Re: Interesting article ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux Threat: non-existant ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux Threat: non-existant ("Chad Myers")
Re: Interesting article ("Chad Myers")
Re: Microsoft says Linux threatens innovation (Mike Martinet)
Re: Microsoft says Linux threatens innovation (Mike Martinet)
Kulkis blows goats! Its official! (meow)
Hmm interesting quote from Kulkis on alt.support.depression (meow)
Re: Interesting article (JamesW)
Re: KDE Whiners (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Interesting article ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Interesting article ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Interesting article ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Microsoft seeks government help to stop Linux ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux 64 bit and Windows 32 bit (Charles Lyttle)
Re: Interesting article (Craig Kelley)
Re: Politics (was Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else) (Salvador Peralta)
Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else (Ian Davey)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: JamesW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:04:20 -0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
says...
> Microsoft has already started promoting the next
> one (Whistler, or PX or whatever) with the promise that it
> will be better. They're copying Linux KDE login screen and
> Desktop, in order to make it at least *look* better.
Have you seen a screenshot? XP is truly hideous.
------------------------------
From: Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Politics (was Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else)
Date: 16 Feb 2001 09:01:34 -0500
Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Bloody Viking wrote:
> >
> > Walt wrote:
> >
> > : In Los Angeles, thousands of illegal immigrants, along with people in
> > : local cemeteries, registered and voted in recent elections. And of
> > : course, they voted overwhelmingly Democratic.
> >
> > And in Florida, the GOP does the same crap. And we all know about
> > the election debacle that ensued.
>
> So why did Gore only challenge the counts in DEMONCROOK-controlled
> counties?
it's a simple matter of statistics. imagine two voting districts.
one 70% repulican, 30% democrat. one 30% R and 70% D.
say that 10% of all ballots are not counted for whatever reason.
suppose further that political affiliation is independent to
counted/uncounted ballots. then, every ballot recovered in the
former, largely republican district, will be more likely to be
republican. in the latter district, they will tend to be democratic.
of course gore will push for a recount where it will help him most.
both parties did what they could to win. believing the rhetoric of
either of them is silly.
--
J o h a n K u l l s t a m
[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
sysengr
------------------------------
From: Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft says Linux threatens innovation
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:20:59 GMT
Mike Martinet wrote:
>
> Edward Rosten wrote:
> >
> > > It's interesting to note that the whole phenomenon of Microsoft vs. Open
> > > Source most likely wouldn't exist had IBM not (albeit, unthinkingly)
> > > 'open-sourced' the PC architecture.
> >
> > Not true. Visit www.gnu.org and look under `Why we are here'
> >
> > -Ed
> >
>
> HUP! I glanced at 'Why We Exist' on gnu.org - I couldn't find a
> history, per se, and I didn't notice a mention of platform. Who, in
> your opinion, if not MS, would be challenging Open Source if MS hadn't
> risen to dominance on the IBM clone platform? And Open Source in what
> form? Linux on x86 most certainly wouldn't be a threat, either. Would
> it? What am I missing here?
>
> My point is/was the irony that both MS and Linux owe their current
> status to the historically cheap availability of IBM clones. Something
> that was only possible because IBM inadvertently gave the hardware
> licensing away.
>
> I could be wrong. It's happened before, ask my wife. :)
>
> MjM
You may wish to have a look at the short version of the whole GNU story
on another page of the same site:
http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-history.html
--
It's is not, it isn't ain't, and it's it's, not its, if you mean it
is. If you don't, it's its. Then too, it's hers. It isn't her's. It
isn't our's either. It's ours, and likewise yours and theirs.
-- Oxford University Press, Edpress News
------------------------------
From: Darren Winsper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New kernel 2.4.1 rocks with IPMASQ
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:23:18 +0000
Adam Warner wrote:
> Good to hear. My first experience with running 2.4.1-ac15 (that's Alan
> Cox's latest 2.4.2 prepatch No. 15--see fa.linux.kernel) has been painful.
> A spontaneous reboot and two lockups under X almost instaneously.
That's not surprising considering they're not meant to be entirely stable.
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:12:08 GMT
"J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
>
> > We still use telnet
>
> What's with the "we" business?
>
> perhaps you use telnet, I can't remember when I last used telnet.
You use SSH, I'm sure, which is the same thing, with sugar coating.
It's still the same 70's technology.
> >
> > We still use crappy old XWindows
>
> Sorry to hear of your woes - yes I know your pc X-windows
> emulators are expensive and lack some neat features.
>
> I'm very happy with my 3D accelerated, OpenGL X.
Which crashes constantly...
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:12:57 GMT
"J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
>
> > No, really, I want to know.
> >
> > When it's good for Linux, Linux is Unix. When it's bad for Linux,
> > Linux isn't Unix.
> >
> > I wish you guys would make up your mind and stick to something,
> > because it really just makes you look like idiots. But then,
> > we always knew that, I guess.
>
> You, sir, are a nuisance.
>
> I have no desire to reward your nasty, vindictive
> tirades with an answer -
Ahh... avoid avoid avoid.
It's really annoying, but true. You guys really can't make up your mind
and you can't figure out what you want Linux to be. Is Linux Unix,
or is it not?
-Chad
------------------------------
From: meow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Yum! A new laptop screen, i thinks ill fry it!
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:32:35 GMT
> Have on already.
> Petite, cover-girl gorgeous, and smart as hell.
She must be as thick as shit if she goes out with an obnoxious cunt like
you
Maybe you 'pay' her to be your gf with your high hourly rate
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:18:20 GMT
"Ketil Z Malde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > No, really, what has changed dramatically in Unix in the
> > last 10 years?
>
> Lots.
Like? A bunch of cosmetic changes and hardware updates, maybe,
but other than that, not much.
> > We still use telnet
>
> Only if you're really backwards. It's called ssh these days.
Same difference. Same 70's technologies. This is great, I love
how you guys think that SSH is some major advancement. It's
still telnet, just with encryption, and shoddy encryption at that!
> > We still use crappy old XWindows
>
> Which ensures 10 year old programs still run, but with a bunch of new
> additions, like OpenGL, Xv, Render, and what have you.
Albeit unreliably
>
> > Unix still has the brain-dead permission bits security.
>
> Which are simple to use, and makes it very easy to get a quick
> overview over permissions in a directory.
But is really insecure and doesn't provide much security
for a secure installation at all.
> And gives you functionality like setgid, setuid and sticky.
> Of course, if you need them, you can use ACLs on most if not every Unix, but
most
> people prefer to do without.
Which is a shame, because perm bits really sucks in every way.
>
> > Even though many Unix vendors have implemented DAC, many
> > people still insist on using permission bits.
>
> DAC?
See, you guys don't even know the basics. How can you even say
that permission bits are good when you don't even know what
the alternatives are. Wake up and smell the coffee. Perm bits
are ancient, a poor design, and are really unsecure. You should
look at DAC, it's way better in every way. And no, it's not
a Microsoft thing. Microsoft used that design, but some
Unixes, Novell, Baynan, and many other vendors use it. It's
required by the DoD for their trusted systems (of which NT 4.0
is).
>
> > Nothing's really changed.
>
> Perhaps you should get out more?
I have yet to see anything that has changed except for small
cosmetic changes. SSH is not a change, it's an update to a
stil-old system. OpenGL in X is a slight change, but nothing
major.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux Threat: non-existant
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:19:31 GMT
"J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
>
> > Well, nothing has been put forth yet. I've posted several links in the
> > past 3-6 months showing Linux having pretty small share and usually
> > falling into the Other category. You have het to produce ONE SINGLE
> > LINK.
>
> That's because you're been spouting outrageous
> nonsense and nobody really takes you seriously.
>
> In technical terms, you've flipped the bozo bit.
Another factless avoidance post by J Sloan.
Yet another attempt to avoid the thread subject because he
knows he can't debate, so he just makes personal attacks
to look cool.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux Threat: non-existant
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:21:54 GMT
"J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
>
> > Web site? If you look at Netcraft, and then look at other sites that
> > provide surveys and include the OS, Linux always way at the bottom.
> > For Fortune500 sites, Linux is >2%.
>
> Provide a link for this bizzare claim, if you can.
I have, several times. In fact, I have several times in response to
YOUR posts ( which are always factless and linkless).
> > Um... yours is the one that's unsupportable. You're making the
> > wide-eyed claim, not me.
>
> I have no idea what you're talking about.
<sigh> Don't you guys have any attention span? Really. You can't
even remember your own posts.
You were claiming that Linux had some huge market share, which
isn't supported by any of the widely, commonly available sources
including IDC and Gartner which all contradict your statements.
You have yet to provide even the hint of a source to your
wide-eyed (obviously false or exaggerated) claims.
> I'd love to chat with you some more Chad,
> but it is very tedious and draining to talk
> with you -
Well, unless you start producing facts, I will have to killfile
you because I refuse to speak with lying, ignorant nitwits
who continue to insult, but never produce.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:22:45 GMT
"JamesW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> says...
>
> > Microsoft has already started promoting the next
> > one (Whistler, or PX or whatever) with the promise that it
> > will be better. They're copying Linux KDE login screen and
> > Desktop, in order to make it at least *look* better.
>
> Have you seen a screenshot? XP is truly hideous.
That's just one skin.
Anyhow, it's better than Motif, or XWindows in many ways.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: Mike Martinet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft says Linux threatens innovation
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:49:22 -0700
Tim Hanson wrote:
>
> Mike Martinet wrote:
> > It's interesting to note that the whole phenomenon of Microsoft vs. Open
> > Source most likely wouldn't exist had IBM not (albeit, unthinkingly)
> > 'open-sourced' the PC architecture.
> Not true. It had nothing to do with PCs and a lot to do with
> minicomputers, Richard Stallman, and his attempt to create a free Unix.
> This was in reaction to the frankly exorbitant pricing of commercial
> Unix and the developing Unix wars.
>
<a bunch of snippage>
Linux on x86 and MS Windows are NOT on PCs?
I understand you are talking about the origin of Open Source. I am
talking about the looming battle between Linux and Microsoft, concerning
Open Source, fought for and on the PC ironically made possible by IBM.
Does that make more sense?
MjM
------------------------------
From: Mike Martinet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft says Linux threatens innovation
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:49:44 -0700
Thanks for the link.
MjM
Tim Hanson wrote:
>
> Mike Martinet wrote:
> >
> > Edward Rosten wrote:
> > >
> > > > It's interesting to note that the whole phenomenon of Microsoft vs. Open
> > > > Source most likely wouldn't exist had IBM not (albeit, unthinkingly)
> > > > 'open-sourced' the PC architecture.
> > >
> > > Not true. Visit www.gnu.org and look under `Why we are here'
> > >
> > > -Ed
> > >
> >
> > HUP! I glanced at 'Why We Exist' on gnu.org - I couldn't find a
> > history, per se, and I didn't notice a mention of platform. Who, in
> > your opinion, if not MS, would be challenging Open Source if MS hadn't
> > risen to dominance on the IBM clone platform? And Open Source in what
> > form? Linux on x86 most certainly wouldn't be a threat, either. Would
> > it? What am I missing here?
> >
> > My point is/was the irony that both MS and Linux owe their current
> > status to the historically cheap availability of IBM clones. Something
> > that was only possible because IBM inadvertently gave the hardware
> > licensing away.
> >
> > I could be wrong. It's happened before, ask my wife. :)
> >
> > MjM
>
> You may wish to have a look at the short version of the whole GNU story
> on another page of the same site:
>
> http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-history.html
>
> --
> It's is not, it isn't ain't, and it's it's, not its, if you mean it
> is. If you don't, it's its. Then too, it's hers. It isn't her's. It
> isn't our's either. It's ours, and likewise yours and theirs.
> -- Oxford University Press, Edpress News
------------------------------
From: meow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Kulkis blows goats! Its official!
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:58:43 GMT
Kulkis blows goats! Its official!
------------------------------
From: meow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Hmm interesting quote from Kulkis on alt.support.depression
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:02:13 GMT
"Yes its true. My uncle abused me as a child and i never got over it. I
now get back at the world by talking shite on newsgroups"
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: JamesW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:03:36 -0000
In article <VIaj6.27484$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> Anyhow, it's better than Motif, or XWindows in many ways.
>
> -Chad
>
In what ways?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: KDE Whiners
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:57:22 +0000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the 15 Feb 2001 20:48:37 GMT...
...and [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > At the heyday of baroque absolutism, the nobility didn't bathe at all
> > because it was supposed to be unhealthy. It's also noteworthy that
> > most trailers feature better sanitation that your typical 17th century
> > castle. Versailles, for example, had zero toilets, for lack of a moat
> > <g>. The usual way of dealing with your bodily functions was just
> > sitting down somewhere in a corner and letting the personnel take care
> > of the residue.
>
> Not for the royal and rich, actually. At versailles (as with almost every
> other really big house built all over the world in those days) there were
> indoor-ish facilities which amounted to a narrow room,
[etc. etc.]
I feel enlightened... and it's pretty sad that, when I went to
Versailles in 1996, I've been misinformed about this topic by an
officially appointed guide.
mawa
--
I refuse to consign the whole male sex to the nursery. I insist on
believing that some men are my equals.
-- Brigid Brophy
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:43:01 +0200
"JamesW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> says...
>
> > Microsoft has already started promoting the next
> > one (Whistler, or PX or whatever) with the promise that it
> > will be better. They're copying Linux KDE login screen and
> > Desktop, in order to make it at least *look* better.
>
> Have you seen a screenshot? XP is truly hideous.
A skinnable OS can't be ugly.
Luna is indeed a really ugly skin, thought.
And Pro is only slightly better.
I go with classic.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:46:21 +0200
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:MEaj6.27470$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
< Perm bits
> are ancient, a poor design, and are really unsecure.
Describ a way to get over permissions in any *nix that implement perm bits
(all of them).
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:48:00 +0200
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:TZ9j6.73119$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Most pictures really aren't worth a thousand words but they take that much
bandwidth.
I'm going to qoute you on this.
Multiply times, probably, this is a great sig.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft seeks government help to stop Linux
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:59:43 +0200
"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Tim Hanson wrote:
> >
> > No doubt Allchin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) knows full well what he's
> > doing. He's extracting a little mileage out of Napster concerns to
> > equate open source software to stealing songs over the 'net. I'm sure
> > he and his cronies are having a laugh over the gullibility of that
> > interviewer (and at how angry they made Linux advocates) now.
> >
> > These are evil people. Really down there.
>
> That is something that concerns me. Microsoft is "evil" but not because it
> intends to do wrong, but it intends to do without regard, and sometimes to
the
> spite, of others.
>
> Looking back, M$ was once the little guy, and we cheered it on because we
> thought it would change things. It has become Fidel Castro, using past
> revolutionary glory to hide its crimes and be the "establishment." Meet
the new
> boss, same as the old boss. Perhaps we should have chosen CP/M, maybe
Kildal
> would have conducted business with just a few more scruples.
You don't recall much of CP/M, do you?
What we needed is ANSI API.
Something like Java or .NET that any OS should have follow, which would've
allowed you to develop against it, knowing that it would work reasonably
well on all platforms.
We needed it on the 80s, especially the *nixes, but the home market would've
profit from that as well.
------------------------------
From: Charles Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux 64 bit and Windows 32 bit
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:25:50 GMT
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
> > It seems unlikely that the Itanium code can be called finished until the
> > chip ships.
>
> In case you hadn't noticed, the Itanium is shipping now, in HP computers.
>
> MS somehow coerced intel in to not releasing it for lower end stuff until
> MS were finished.
>
> -Ed
>
> --
> Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
> weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
> - The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
> |eng.ox.ac.uk
I think this is a jab at MS by Intel. Intel is showing MS who is really
top dog.
--
Russ Lyttle
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<http://home.earthlink.net/~lyttlec>
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: 16 Feb 2001 08:26:43 -0700
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Chad Myers wrote:
> >
> > > No, really, I want to know.
> > >
> > > When it's good for Linux, Linux is Unix. When it's bad for Linux,
> > > Linux isn't Unix.
> > >
> > > I wish you guys would make up your mind and stick to something,
> > > because it really just makes you look like idiots. But then,
> > > we always knew that, I guess.
> >
> > You, sir, are a nuisance.
> >
> > I have no desire to reward your nasty, vindictive
> > tirades with an answer -
>
> Ahh... avoid avoid avoid.
>
> It's really annoying, but true. You guys really can't make up your mind
> and you can't figure out what you want Linux to be. Is Linux Unix,
> or is it not?
Is the world round? Depends.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: Salvador Peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Politics (was Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:31:05 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Walt wrote:
>
> : In Los Angeles, thousands of illegal immigrants, along with people
> : in
> : local cemeteries, registered and voted in recent elections. And of
> : course, they voted overwhelmingly Democratic.
As someone who lives in Los Angeles, I can say that none of this made
the press here. Can you show us a source to support the claim of
election improprieties in LA, or are you just privvy to information
that the rest of us are unaware of?
--
Salvador Peralta -o)
Programmer/Analyst, Webmaster / \
[EMAIL PROTECTED] _\_v
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ian Davey)
Subject: Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:50:48 GMT
In article <96gu50$te$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Mercer) wrote:
>Their is certainly a strong element of faith in science. We
>accept the existence of that we have no direct knowledge (muons,
>for instance) based upon the assurances of people we have no
>direct knowledge. Is it really that far a stretch to believe
>Christ existed based on the works of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John
>than to believe black holes exist.
That's flawed. The existence of things like muons is theoretical, scientists
come up with theories to explain things and then others gather evidence to
either prove or disprove it. Atoms were also just theory at one point, but
through experimentation and the improvement of microscopes etc. their
existence was proved. That's how science works and how it moves forward. I've
not heard of muons so can't comment on that particular theory, but it'll
either be proven or disproven eventually. Or another theory (or breakthrough)
will take it's place.
It's possible that Christ existed, in fact I think there's more evidence than
just the bible to suggest that. Nothing though suggests he was anything more
than a jewish revolutionary who spoke out against the Romans. In fact there
was some more evidence about that discovered recently, the subject of an
interesting documentary called "the real jesus christ". It put everything in a
historical perspective and made a lot of sense. About how Paul used the death
of Jesus to create a religion, and hid the real man behind stories of
miracles etc. Very interesting stuff and lots of political intrigue and
infighting.
>Just as the religious rely on the collective experiences of those
>who have gone before, so does science. You certainly do not
>perform experiments to prove every article of science you encounter,
>you rely on faith that your predecessors performed their experiments
>correctly. Following the cold fusion debate, you can witness the
The difference is though that you can repeat those experiments. You're not
reliant on anyone else doing them. Frequently you do repeat past experiments,
that's how science is normally taught in schools.
>uproar tha ensues when experiments appear to challenge the preheld
>beliefs. The reaction of physicists is to deny and attack the new
>evidence just as fundamentalists attack evolution. If cold fusion
>yet proves out and is not the likely result of poorly conducted
>experimentation, the howls from physicists will equal the howls
>of those who originally shouted down the germ theory of Pasteur or
>the works of Charles Darwin.
If Cold Fusion were proven scientists would be jumping for joy, lots of people
have been working towards that particular vision. It's just that without being
repeatable, an experiment isn't really worth the paper it's written on. And if
no one can recreate a supposed experiment, then it's clearly either a
deception or not properly documented. In this case it appears to be the
former.
ian.
\ /
(@_@) http://www.eclipse.co.uk/sweetdespise/ (dark literature)
/(&)\ http://www.eclipse.co.uk/sweetdespise/libertycaptions/ (art)
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