Linux-Advocacy Digest #475, Volume #32 Sun, 25 Feb 01 20:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: Mircosoft Tax ("Chris Ahlstrom")
Re: How long does your box run for? (Bloody Viking)
Re: Microsoft seeks government help to stop Linux (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Mircosoft Tax ("gary")
Re: Microsoft says Linux threatens innovation (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: RTFM at M$ (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Mike Flournoy)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 00:37:39 GMT
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:W8gm6.1553$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> The article is based on a faulty premise. Since Windows 95 came out, not
> all components have come down in price in any significant way. Cases and
> Power supplies have not come down in price since 95. Floppy disks have not
> come down in price. A good quality keyboard or mouse has not come down in
> price.
Cases, power supplies, floppy drives, keyboard, and mice have not significantly
changes in a long time. They hit rock bottom, pricewise, and can go no further.
On the other hand, memory, motherboards, and CPUs get their prices driven down
by the newer and better versions of these components that come after.
Microsoft OS's do not get their price driven down... it just goes up.
Although, lately, the Windows ME upgrade went for an unusually low price,
a fact I attribute to some competition in the low end from Linux.
Observation: went to WalMart the other day, and saw no copies of
Windows operating systems, where there had been quite a few not too
long ago. Maybe someone bought them up, but the spaces weren't
empty. Just filled with other products. Mandrake Linux still had its
place on the shelf, though. I'm thinking that Microsoft can't or won't
sell its OS at Wal-Mart prices.
> Many components have gone UP in price. The GeForce 3 video card
> will cost $599, the GeForce 2 Ultra costs $499.
I'm willing to agree here, but would ask just how much horsepower these
babies have. Those prices are the cost of a good PC box today!
Chris
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Subject: Re: How long does your box run for?
Date: 26 Feb 2001 00:37:42 GMT
Bob Hauck ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: 9:56pm up 49 days, 10:25, 2 users, load average: 0.07, 0.02, 0.00
I rack up some long uptimes and I don't keep track of it. My computer runs
24/7 and I only reboot to muck with Windows 95, an increasingly rare activity.
Uptimes can go into MONTHS.
Compare with NT. A bad insomniac can have a better uptime than that OS!
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft seeks government help to stop Linux
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:37:47 -0500
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
> >> > That's why law-abiding citizens SHOULD HAVE guns....because
> >> > LAW-ABIDING CITZENS aren't the ones who would shoot you...but their
> >> > *IS* a good chance that one would shoot some thug who doesn't give a
> >> > fuck about the laws against murder in the first place.
> >> >
> >> >> that is MY right as a free Englishman and I want to keep
> >> >> that right.
> >> >
> >> > Clue for the clueless: criminals don't give a fuck about what you
> >> > think your rights are.
> >> >
> >> >> Since guns are not commonplace here, letting nutters
> >> >> have them
> >> >> means oppression, not freedom for me.
> >> >
> >> > 1 nutter kills 20 people.
> >>
> >> Yep.
> >>
> >> > 60 criminals, no longer fearing retaliation by disarmed law-abiding
> >> > citizens kill 1 person each.
> >>
> >> Law abiding citizens here were unarmed anyway because we don't have a
> >> gun culture, so under our new system, there are 20 less deaths by your
> >> reckoning.
> >
> > Post-handgun ban statistics contradict your argument.
>
> I don't care what the statistics say, the hand gun laws affected a tiny
> minority of the population anyway.
Which is growing larger every day as thugs fear no retaliation.
> Any spurious change will settle down
> just like it does everywhere else.
prove it.
>
>
> > Apparently the mere idea of a rare law-abiding citizen with a gun was
> > enough to keep the thugs at bay.
>
> There was no idea of guns because NO ONE HAD GUNS ANY WAY (well, almost
> noone).
>
Regardless....most criminals are cowards. When the government declares
that any precautions to protect yourself against violent criminals is
itself a criminal act, the situation devolves into wolves preying
upon sheep. And in many cases, the government joins the wolves.
> > But now that you've outlawed them, your criminals are running wild
> > because they are 100% confident that all law-abiding individuals will be
> > unable to defend themselves.
>
> Since more criminals had guns than the poplation in general, the chance
> of a criminal running in to someone with a gun is largely unchanged.
Wrong. It has gone from rare to infinitesimal.
>
>
> >> > Should we outlaw cars because sometimes there are accidents--
> >> > completely disregarding that fact that cars save more lives than what
> >> > they take
> >> > (quick, sheltered transportation allows people to maintain a higher
> >> > standard of living, thereby avoiding malnutrition, disease,
> >> > hypothermia, etc.)
> >>
> >> Guns serve one purpose: to kill. The primary purpose of cars is not to
> >> kill.
> >
> > Wrong. Guns are designed to launch a small metal projectile at high
> > velocity.
>
> Yep, for the purpose of killing.
And when the criminals have them, and you don't....guess where that
puts you.
Or when the criminal merely has a cricket bat....and your grandmother
doesn't have access to a pistol...where does that put her (other than
laying on the floor with the back of her head turned into a sickening
mush of skin, shattered bone, lacerated brain tissue, and blood)....
>
>
> > What that projectile hits is ENTIRELY under the decision-making of the
> > person holding it.
>
> So that's why people get killed in crossfire?
The primary source of "cross-fire casualties", especially in American states
that have extremely lax concealed-carry laws....IS THE POLICE.
>
>
> > But...let's assume that you are correct...that guns have ZERO purpose
> > other than killing.
> >
> > Is it a good idea that the only people running around English society
> > with guns on them are the habitual criminals?
>
> That's all we had anyway.
No wonder all the smart people are leaving England.
>
>
> > What part of "criminals don't obey gun laws" do you not fucking
> > understand?
>
> What part of `virtually no one had guns anyway don't you understand.
>
Regardless, it should still be the private decision of a law-abiding
citizen, NOT the decision of an emotion-driven mob who have been
manipulated by propaganda disguised as "news".
>
> >> >> To be quite frank, guns or no guns, if they come after me, I am a
> >> >> dead man.
> >> >
> >> > Spoken like a true coward.
> >>
> >> No, spoken like someone who has a realistic outlook.
> >
> > Coward.
>
> If I pushed you off a cliff, would you expect to die? The answer is yes
> and you are not a coward for believeing that.
If ANYBODY attempted to push me off a cliff, they would feel something like
a sledgehammer hitting their chest, followed by the sensation of drowning
as your lungs fill with blood.
Does the phrase JUSTIFIABLE homocide mean anything to you?
>
> >> > And so, on that basis, you would deny everybody else a chance to
> >> > defend themselves.
> >>
> >> People here didn't have guns in general anyway. Under these
> >> circumstances, its better not to let nutters at them.
> >
> > Tell that to the surviving family members and friends of all of the
> > mugging and hot-burglary victims who have died in the last year.
>
> Hot burglaries are almost unknown in the UK. And mugings almost never
^^^
You misspelled "WERE".
> involve guns.
The best way to deter a mugger is to present a handgun.
> If everyone had guns, then the muggers would get guns too.
Most muggers are cowards. Every place in the US where concealed carry
laws have been relaxed, the rate of muggings has dropped dramatically.
> So instead of one unarmed person against 3 unarmed muggers, you have one
> armed person against 3 armed muggers. Either way, you'll loose your
> wallet.
Most muggers are goddamned cowards. Knowing that a large percentage
of the law-abiding public is carrying, bu not knowing precisely who
has an INCREDIBLE deterrant effect.
>
>
> > I'm sure that they'll find a lot of consolation that their loved ones
> > have died in the quest to keep guns out of the hands of nutters.
>
> And what about the people who's loved ones have dies precisely because
> nutters were allowed guns?
Are you saying that one mass murder of 10 people is somehow worse
than the DOZENS of murders committed because habitual criminals
have learned that they can be as violent as they like without fear
of retaliation?
Go see "A Clockwork Orange", and see tell us, what would happen
differently if the society lady with the avant-garde art had been
armed.
Assume that the woman behaves in a moderately self-preserving
manner.
>
>
> >> > By that logic, your neighbor should prevent you from having a
> >> > computer because he can't figure out how to use it effectively.
> >>
> >> Guns are designed to kill, computers are not.
> >>
> >
> > So is poison.
> >
> > I don't have any poison. Therefore, I vote that YOU not be allowed to
> > purchase any to get rid of the mice that invaded your home last month.
> >
> > Have fun watching your house get destroyed...
>
> Um, well I hade to be pedantic, but we did have mice in out house a
> couple of months ago, but we used mouse traps intead and they were very
> effective :-)
> But besides, poison serves a useful purpose (other than to kill people,
> the usefulness of which is debatable).
If it can kill a rat, it can kill hundreds of school children if,
say, it found it's way into the food at the cafeteria.
>
>
> >> >> would stop that govt. shelling the house of someone with a personal
> >> >> arsenal?
> >> >
> >> > A concerted response from the entire neighborhood firing upon the gun
> >> > crew.
> >>
> >> How many civs do you know own enough weaponary to stop a mobile gun
> >> shelling you from 60 miles away?
> >
> > Simple...local neighbors AT THE FIRING SITE can take out the gun crew.
>
> I'll assume you've seen a mobile gun---they look very much like tanks
> with extermely long guns. How many civs do you know own enough weaponary
> to take out one of those?
I'm in the army. Self-propelled artillery cannot operate while
"buttoned up". The crew must get out, set the spades.
Also, SP artillery doesn't carry ammunition on board....that's in
a carrier that follows behind. The porpose is so that the ammunition
is in a cheap, easily replaceable carrier, while the expensive gun
on it's expensive chassis and gun carriage won't self-destruct by
secondary explosions if hit by something which could induce such
secondary explosions.
Therefore, you CANNOT fire self-propelled artillery without the
crew milling about where they can by shot with small arms.
>
>
> > Your mis-understanding of government vs. the populace warfare is
> > indicative of EXACTLY why your army lost the American Revolution.
>
> They lost the war for many reasons.
>
One of which was that the Redcoats, while the most highly drilled
soldiers in the world, really didn't understand how to fight in a
true life-and-death struggle.
The set-piece battle tradition in European military culture was
more about getting the underclass of two opposing nations to
slaughter each other, while the ruling classes of both sides
observed from the hillside.
Then along came the Americans spat upon those rules. A generation
later, Napolean flushed them down the toilet.
>
> >> > "Those who would trade liberty for safety deserve neither"
> >> > --Benjamin Franklin
> >>
> >> I'm not trading liberty for safety. I get more liberty without guns
> >> around than with.
> >
> > You are so naive, you are dangerous.
>
> I would rather not have someone as hot headed as you running around armed
> with a handgun.
False premise.
I've never committed any criminal violence, although I have prevented
some on more than one occasion.
>
>
> > You really don't have the slightest clue how those at the top of the
> > pyramid LOVE a working class that is disarmed, unable to revolt.
>
>
>
> > Gun control is ALL about suppressing the working classes... regardless
> > of whatever popular disinformation campaign which was used to sell you
> > on supporting the idea.
>
> Well, good job that most of the country is middle class then.
>
Does the middle class get up and go to work each day?
a) no
B) YES
> -Ed
>
> --
> | u98ejr
> | @
> Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
> | .ac.uk
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: "meow" is yet another anonymous coward who does nothing
but write stupid nonsense about his intellectual superiors.
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 00:40:01 GMT
> The article is based on a faulty premise. Since Windows 95 came out, not
> all components have come down in price in any significant way. Cases and
> Power supplies have not come down in price since 95.
atx case: ~$14.99
http://www.verasoft.com/miniatcase.html
power supply: ~$9.00
http://www.verasoft.com/atxpowsup25.html
these things are insignifigant....
> Floppy disks have not
> come down in price
If you mean floppy drives, floppy drive: $8
http://www.computersurplusoutlet.com/viewproduct.asp?ProductID=STO-144DEL
(refurb but who cares.. it's a floppy drive)
A year ago, a floppy drive costed $13. That's a 40% reduction in a year.
Not bad for something that is completely insignifigant anyway.
If you mean floppy disks: $3.35 for 10
http://www.voltexpc.com/media/media_floppy.htm
(i like verbatim)
BTW - why the hell would you use floppies anyway?
> A good quality keyboard or mouse has not come down in
> price.
I'm not going to go get a url for this because I have a story that goes well
with it. I went out and bought a $30 IBM keyboard. You'd assume this
keyboard would be at least "pretty good" because 1) it's made by IBM and 2)
it's expensive as hell for a normal (non-ergonomic) keyboard. I get the
thing home... it LITERALLY cannot keep up with my typing. My normal typing
speed is about 110-120wpm, so I could kind of understand this, but even when
i slowed down to about 60wpm it still garbled the letters up. NO, it is not
my fault, I type on a large numbers of keyboards every day, I'm a computer
tech. The moral of this story is: my $4.99 keyboard is the best one I've
ever had. My last $4.99 keyboard lasted me from 1995 until late 2000, at
which point i decided it was far too filthy to keep around.
Back to the fun....
> Many components have gone UP in price. The GeForce 3 video card
> will cost $599,
Yes, it will cost $500-600 when it is initially released. Considering this
thing has like 4 times the number of transistors as a pentium 4, I'd say
it's understandable. Wait about 4 months and the gf3 will cost $299 or
less. Nvidia is on a 6-month release schedule: new card design EVERY six
months. A geforce sdr, which is now 5 generations old (sdr, ddr, gts, gts
ultra, gf3) is still an *AWESOME* card for playing Quake3, and it will set
you back about $70. Keep in mind this is for a card which will push over 60
frames per second in 1024x768.
> the GeForce 2 Ultra costs $499.
>
A Leadtek GeForce2 Ultra is $372.
http://www.newegg.com/app/specification.asp?item=14-122-110
Leadtek's Geforce/Geforce2/Geforce2 Ultra boards are widely considered to be
the best. You can find a review of their Geforce 2 GTS model (the one I
own) at www.tomshardware.com. This is in the same boat as the GF3. The
price is high now, yes. The price in a couple months will be much lower.
When the GF2 (non-ultra) first came out, it was $499 if I remember
correctly. I bought mine back in August or September for $224, and that was
still back when they were "wow" material.
In conclusion.....
All of the things you have mentioned are completely insignifigant, and this
INCLUDES the video cards. A S3 Virge 4MB card will cost you $16
(http://liquidationetc.safeshopper.com/38/cat38.htm?264). An 8-meg TNT2,
the precursor to GeForce, will cost you $28. Neither of these is going to
get you to the top of the scoreboard in Quake3, but either of them will be
perfect for the average home user -- the TNT2 is even overkill for someone
who doesn't need 3D capabilities. You don't point at a dodge viper and say
"SEE! THE PRICE OF CARS ISN'T GOING DOWN!"
The price of the things that make up the bulk of the price of a computer
(harddrive, motherboard, cpu, memory, video card) have all come down
DRASTICALLY in recent times. Perfect example: a 256 meg stick of Micron
PC-133 ram is now $70-80 if you spend five minutes looking.
All of these things (floppy drive, disks, case, power supply, and a good
video card) COMBINED cost less than the price of a single copy of Windows
ME. Looks like you lose...
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft says Linux threatens innovation
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:39:13 -0500
Ed Allen wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Said Erik Funkenbusch in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sun, 25 Feb 2001
> >>
> >>Not everything in the PC dropped in price drastically. For instance, the
> >>cost of the mouse has been roughly the same for the last 6 years. The cost
> >>of the keyboard is also roughly equivelant. The cost of the case and
> >>power supply have also not changed very radically, and most certainly the
> >>cost of the floppy disk drive hasn't changed in that time period either.
> >>
> >>So, if many componets of the PC also have not changed, does that mean those
> >>components are also clear evidence that those components are part of a
> >>monopoly as well?
> >>
> >>Software is not hardware, and it doesn't follow the same market trends of
> >>hardware.
> >
> >Then why did you list only the most trivial hardware components above?
> >
> Could it be that M$ makes mice and keyboards ?
It's contracted out. They merely slap their logo on them.
> --
> How much do we need to pay you to screw Netscape?
> - BILL GATES, to AOL in a 1996 meeting
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: "meow" is yet another anonymous coward who does nothing
but write stupid nonsense about his intellectual superiors.
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: RTFM at M$
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 00:39:58 GMT
Said Erik Funkenbusch in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 25 Feb 2001
17:13:31 -0600;
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >Imagine if 10,000 people all started sending one ping/sec to the same
>> >site. Now imagine one guy planting a remote-control trojan like Back
>> >Orifice or trinoo on a few hundred systems and sending 100 pings/sec.
>>
>> That's the point, Bob. Notice that this is an imaginary example.
>> NOBODY has ever heard of a DoS attack with normal pings. Nor any
>> particular value to the use of simple ping sweeps by hackers, which is
>> the most often cited "reason" for being clueless about this matter.
>
>http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2448190,00.html
In the case of a Smurf
DoS attack, the ping's
packet return IP address
is forged with the IP of
the targeted machine.
The ping is issued to the
entire IP broadcast
address. This causes
every machine to
respond to the bogus
ping packets and reply
to the targeted machine,
which floods it.
(This is more or less the entirety of the information on this page. The
ad plastered in the middle of the page is larger.)
Wow! Its got a name. Now all you have to do is find someone clueless
enough to try to use such a senseless attack to actually inconvenience
somebody.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
From: Mike Flournoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 00:30:10 GMT
in article [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Rudd at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
on 2/25/01 5:39 PM:
> Matthias Warkus wrote:
>>
>> It was the Sun, 25 Feb 2001 18:38:53 GMT...
>> ...and Mike Flournoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> My solution to the problem of too many menu entries: Count clicks
>>>> (like MS does), sort the most frequently used ones at the top and the
>>>> least frequently used ones at the bottom, under a separator, and in a
>>>> smaller font maybe.
>>
>>> Much better answer: Do a little research, find out where most people expect
>>> to find certain features and put them there.
>>
>> Trouble is that different users have different needs. And while, for
>> example, rearranging the order of icons in a tool bar is inacceptable,
>> the sequence of the entries in a menu is something one can change
>> without confusing the user, since menu items are usually picked by
>> either the text or the leading icon, not by their position.
>>
>
> Then provide a default arrangement that is general, and allow the users to
> move the entries, but do NOT _EVER_ move the entries for the user. And
> have the preferences panel provide a few other layouts:
>
> 1) a layout based upon their current statistical usage (but a static
> layout, not "auto arrange")
> 2) the default layout first suggested
> 3) save a layout, that you can restore to later after playing with settings
>
> I suppose you could also enable an auto arrange, but I doubt many people
> would use it. I know I can't stand it when items I carefully layout on my
> desktop get moved because someone sits down at my desk and hits "auto
> arrange".
I agree with this. It is ok for the user to reaarange to suit his usage, it
is unacceptable for the software to do it for him. Is the program a tool for
the user or is the user a random click generator to feed the program?
I like pinnable menu's and menu's that tear off, these are features that
are helpful and controlled by the user. I don't like features that turn
numbers into dates because it thinks I want that or that change the number I
just entered because it wasn't in sequence like the program thought I would
want. I love spellcheck but not automatic spell correction.
Mike
------------------------------
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