Linux-Advocacy Digest #484, Volume #32 Mon, 26 Feb 01 01:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Microsoft says Linux threatens innovation (T. Max Devlin)
Re: State of linux distros (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Microsoft says Linux threatens innovation (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Something Seemingly Simple. (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Something Seemingly Simple. (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Does anyone know how much computer power we have/ ("Mike")
Re: WARNING - SSH HAS REALLY SECURITY FLAWS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111 (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Does anyone know how much computer power we have/ ("Mike")
Re: [OT] .sig (was: Something Seemingly Simple.) (Allin Cottrell)
Re: M$ doing it again! (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Microsoft says Linux threatens innovation (T. Max Devlin)
Re: RTFM at M$ (Craig Kelley)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft says Linux threatens innovation
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 05:22:25 GMT
Said Erik Funkenbusch in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sun, 25 Feb 2001
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Said Erik Funkenbusch in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sun, 25 Feb 2001
>> >"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Software is not hardware, and it doesn't follow the same market
>trends
>> >of
>> >> > hardware. For instance, Adobe Pagemaker has stayed the same price
>for
>> >the
>> >> > last 6 years as well. Does that mean Adobe is also monopolizing?
>> >>
>> >> The price of Microsoft software has not stayed level. It has increased
>> >> by an incredible amount. For example, about 3-4 years ago, I bought
>> >> an OEM version of Office for about $150. The same version is now about
>> >> $500. How's that for monopoly practice!
>> >
>> >Not even.
>> >
>> >http://www.pricewatch.com/1/146/1904-2.htm
>> >
>> >Office 2000 Standard OEM costs roughly $175, and that's through a
>middleman.
>> >If you buy directly from the distributor, I believe it's about the same
>> >price as you claim.
>>
>> So he's right. Was that your point?
>>
>> (For future reference; all 'street price' quibbling will be
>> appropriately ignored entirely. List price is the only price that
>> matters for this discussion.)
>
>You can only buy OEM copies wholesale, or through your OEM.
>
>How is he right? I just proved that he was wrong.
To quote:
>> >If you buy directly from the distributor, I believe it's about the same
>> >price as you claim.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: State of linux distros
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 00:24:18 -0500
Peter Hayes wrote:
>
> On Sat, 24 Feb 2001 23:53:27 GMT, "Reefer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > "Aaron Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i meddelandet
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > Spot the stupidity.
> >
> > That would be u, using a early 70:s OS like Linsux....
>
> You really are on a reefer, aren't you
Hence his nickname.
>
> Peter
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: "meow" is yet another anonymous coward who does nothing
but write stupid nonsense about his intellectual superiors.
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft says Linux threatens innovation
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 05:25:16 GMT
Said Erik Funkenbusch in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sun, 25 Feb 2001
18:53:57 -0600;
>"Aaron Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > Could it be that M$ makes mice and keyboards ?
>>
>> It's contracted out. They merely slap their logo on them.
>
>You keep claiming this, but have so far refused to provide any proof that
>this is the case.
When did Aaron previously claim this? AFAIK, he just entered the
discussion.
>You seem to think that just saying it makes it true.
Are you saying that MS owns the manufacturers of MS mice and keyboards?
This seems highly doubtful, TBH.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Something Seemingly Simple.
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 00:28:30 -0500
mlw wrote:
>
> Lawrence Kirby wrote:
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Richard Heathfield" writes:
> >
> > ...
> >
> > >Not just yet! :-)
> > >
> > >There are 2 pi radians in a full circle, so the conversion is pi /
> > >180.0:
> > >
> > >double deg_to_rad(double degrees)
> > >{
> > > return degrees * 3.14159265358979323846 / 180.0;
> >
> > Although I'd prefer to write that as
> >
> > return degrees * (3.14159265358979323846 / 180.0);
> >
> > There's no point in forcing unnecessary runtime divisions.
>
> Actually, you should do it this way:
>
> return (degrees * 3.14159265358979323846) / 180.0;
>
> This will preserve more precision.
Only if using fixed-point notation.
With floating point, it's the same loss of accuracy either way.
>
> --
> The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time.
> The terror of their tyranny, however, is alleviated by their lack of
> consistency.
> -- Albert Einstein
> ------------------------
> http://www.mohawksoft.com
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: "meow" is yet another anonymous coward who does nothing
but write stupid nonsense about his intellectual superiors.
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Something Seemingly Simple.
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 00:29:15 -0500
Chris Kern wrote:
>
> On Sat, 24 Feb 2001 22:51:14 +0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted the
> following:
>
> >Chris Kern wrote:
> >>
> >> On 24 Feb 2001 12:41:40 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking) posted
> >> the following:
> >>
> >> > Why isn't it in degrees as is the standard?
> >>
> >> While degrees may be the standard for many people, mathemeticians
> >> always (or nearly always) use radians.
> >>
> >> -Chris
> >
> >*real* mathematicians don't really care
>
> real mathemeticians don't bother with calculations of things like
> degrees and radians. Group theory doesn't generally deal in circles
> ;)
Topology doesn't generally deal in silly things like group theory.
>
> -Chris
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: "meow" is yet another anonymous coward who does nothing
but write stupid nonsense about his intellectual superiors.
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Does anyone know how much computer power we have/
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 05:31:36 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:978e26$v59$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >What's next? More transistors. More power. More speed. At this year's
ISSCC,
> >Patrick Gelsinger predicted that the processor of 2010 will contain 1B
> >transistors, run at 20-30GHz, and perform over 1T operations per second
(it
> >will also consume in excess of 10kW of power).
>
> That last part makes me doubt his predictions. I simply cannot see much of
> a market for processors that require industrial power to be connected to
> the back of the machine.... At least not a mass-market.
Right you are. One of the fundamental problems is that there is nothing to
replace silicon dioxide as the MOS gate insulator. The reason that supply
voltages are decreasing with each process generation is because the oxide
breaks down when the electric field through it reaches a level of around 5e6
V/cm. I think that's the value, but in any event, the voltage has to scale
down with the gate oxide thickness to prevent oxide breakdown. As the supply
voltage scales down, the threshold voltage also has to scale down, so that
there is enough supply voltage left to turn the devices on. The problem then
is that the MOS transistors don't turn off completely when the gate voltage
is zero. There was a paper in the Q398 Intel Technical Journal ("Mos
Scaling: Transistor Challenges for the 21st Century") that points out that
with 1u technologies, standby power was 0.01% of active power. Today, with
channel lengths approaching 0.1u, standby power is approaching 10% of active
power.
To be sure, Patrick talked at length about power, and about methods of
saving power, and I only published his final comments in my post. There was
another article in the HP Journal a few years ago (sadly, no longer
available online) that made the same point. At some point in the foreseeable
future, leakage current will become a dominant concern.
-- Mike --
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.security.ssh
Subject: Re: WARNING - SSH HAS REALLY SECURITY FLAWS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 00:31:34 -0500
Markus G wrote:
>
> "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:Vs9m6.9562$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > I have shown nothing but concern. In fact, the only reason I still
> > post to this thread is because I'm concerned that there are thousands
> > of people out there happily using SSH1 and are completely unaware
> > that it is "fundamentally flawed".
>
> As a matter of fact I recently found another security flaw in both SSH1 AND
> SSH2. I don't have a good feeling about that, it really scares me... How can
> these "programmers" ignore such a threat ? Here's the problem :
>
> EVERYTHING you send to the server, and EVERYTHING he sends back to you can
> be observed by ANY person who is in the same room, looking directly onto
> your monitor !!!!!! DAMN !!
Even worse, they don't even have to be there.
They can just put a video camera aiming at the keyboard!!!!
And make a *TAPE* your finger movements.
>
> And even worse there is even a EXPLOIT ! Anyone who knocks you off can gain
> access to the server, even ROOT access !
>
> This is in my opinion exactly as worse as the fact that someone can steal
> your key or penetrate your keyboard to gain the password, etc. etc. etc.
>
> This discussion leads to nothing - except : There is NO secure protocol, but
> ssh is far more secure than telnet...
> If ssh is not secure enough - nobody will stop you if you go to the server
> personally and type in what you want to =)
>
> Markus
>
> SCNR *g*
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: "meow" is yet another anonymous coward who does nothing
but write stupid nonsense about his intellectual superiors.
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Does anyone know how much computer power we have/
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 05:34:47 GMT
"Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:97aolp$90u$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "B'ichela"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 25 Feb 2001 01:26:35 +0000, Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>Well, in the UK, we get 3000W out of a standard socket. You can also get
> >>cookeer and heater sockets which provide 30A. Why not keep the main
> >>computer in the utility room with the other high power stuff?
> > Here is the U.S we also have Electric range (cooker) outlets
> > that can provide up to 50A power capacities. As well as Electric Dryer
> > connections that provide 30A capacity. As for storing the computer in
> > the utility room... Neat idea! only thing is the issue of environmental
> > concerns such as dust! A dryer is a hell of a lint producer. If yoru
> > dryer is vented to the outside you still get LINT!
>
> I hadn't thought of that since we almost never use the drier. Once in the
> utility room, you could make the computer case quite a bit bigger and
> have one side of it (the outside) as an aluminium fan heat sink. That
> way, it could keep cool from natural of forced concevtion on the outside,
> eliminating the need for a fan sucking dust inside. And you could put one
> helluva fan on the outside :-)
>
At some point, that stops working. The problem is that the chip is a finite
area, and you're trying to dissipate the heat into a large chunk of
aluminum. The aluminum may be able to handle the heat, but the heat flow
from the chip into the aluminum is too slow, so the chip burns up even
though the fins on your heat sink are still cool.
-- Mike --
------------------------------
From: Allin Cottrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: [OT] .sig (was: Something Seemingly Simple.)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 00:23:53 -0500
Aaron Kulkis quoted Richard Heathfield:
> > If you answer, please remove your sig block before so doing.
Richard, you have to understand that Mr Kulkis is a Free American
Citizen, and as such has a God-given Right to do whatever the
hell he likes (e.g. appending 1708 bytes of yahoo rant to all
his Usenet postings), however annoying and inconvenient it may
be for the rest of us.
Allin Cottrell
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: M$ doing it again!
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 00:35:38 -0500
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> "Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Hi Erik,
> >
> > > MS has already stated in several places, including the Whistler SDK
> > > (available online freely to anyone) that the theming API's would not be
> > > released. The reason, is that they want to ensure that all themes
> > > follow the basic windows UI guidelines.
> > >
> > > I'm sure MS will license the theme SDK to developers that agree to abide
> > > by UI guidelines and certify the themes, but that won't happen till at
> > > least the release of whistler.
> >
> > I appreciate the confirmation that Microsoft will not be releasing the
> > theming APIs.
> >
> > I was silly enough to think that Microsoft no longer practiced hiding API
> > specifications from the public and developers.
>
> All OS's have unpublished API's, including Linux. You can find all kinds of
Wrong on two counts.
> API's that are inside the kernel but do not appear in man pages because
> they're intended to be used internally inside the kernel itself without a
> published interface.
1) If it's only meant to be use INTERNAL to the kernal, and
*NEVER* by application, then it's *NOT* part of the API.
API = APPPLICATIONS Programming Interface.
Anything which is "internal to the kernal" is, by definition, outside
of the scope of the API.
2) What part of OPEN SOURCE do you not understand?
The source-code IS *ALWAYS* the authoritative documentation.
>
> Where someone like MS would get in trouble is if their apps, like office
> used those API's to their advantage, and nobody has yet proved this to be
> the case. Andrew Schulman published a book years ago called Undocumented
> Windows which exposed MS's use of hidden API's in 16 bit versions of Office,
> but also proved that using those API's gave them no advantage. Most of it
> was left over from the Windows 2.x days.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: "meow" is yet another anonymous coward who does nothing
but write stupid nonsense about his intellectual superiors.
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft says Linux threatens innovation
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 05:36:31 GMT
Said Erik Funkenbusch in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sun, 25 Feb 2001
>"Ed Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[...]
>> >No amount of email evidence you try to put up will change these economical
>> >facts. Stop pretending it's not true.
>> >
>> Both you and M$ will find that those Findings of Fact cannot be
>> ignored forever.
>
>I'm not ignoring the FoF. They are simply irrelvant to this portion of the
>argument. The sun sets in the west may be a fact, but it's irrelevant to
>price of noodles.
And the Findings of Fact show that Microsoft engages in monopoly
pricing. Get it?
[...]
>> If the retail price of the Windows bundle was ten times what an OEM
>> paid in 1989 and the same number of now inflated dollars were only
>> three times what that OEM paid in 1995 then Jim Allchin would be
>> right that the price went up and it would appear to you that it had
>> not.
>
>OEM's didn't buy Windows in 1989. And even if they did, it was a completely
>different product then.
I see you didn't quite understand Ed's comment, either. Perhaps he'll
try to explain it again.
>I worked for a major OEM in 1993 (Zeos), and I know
>what they paid for Windows and DOS (I maintained their MRP system). The
>price of Windows 95 was much larger than the price of Windows 3.1, but then
>Windows 95 was a standalone product, while Windows 3.1 required the seperate
>purchase of DOS.
Yes, this is covered in the DR-DOS trial; MS decided to charge as much
for Windows 3.1 as they did for DOS + Windows 3.0.
And who said there's any such thing as monopoly pricing?
>> >> I have never claimed that MS makes innovation totally stop just that
>> >> it raises the cost of bringing such innovation to market.
[...]
>That still doesn't explain how if the cost of bringing things to market has
>raised because of MS, that Debian is still able to do so for free. Whether
>or not people donate time, it's still free for Debian, thus the cost has not
>risen for them to bring their product to market.
You're too confused to be comprehensible, Erik. These are abstractions,
and you seem to be unable to grasp them. A product's cost can't change
because of things that happen after its purchased. Microsoft raising
the cost of bringing innovation to market doesn't mean it matters how
much the innovation costs; just that it will be more expensive (harder;
requiring more effort) because of their monopolization.
[...]
>> That M$ has been deluding millions of people into thinking that only
>> Bill can have good ideas.
>
>That's not criminal, whether or not it's true or not.
Yes, it is. Its "engrossing", one of the classical nineteenth century
crimes 'bundled', as it were, into the charge of "monopolization" as
codified by the Congress in the Sherman Act and interpreted by the
Supreme Court.
Being dishonest is never something to be proud of. Being absolutely
sure that what you're doing is illegal is not enough to ensure that its
not dishonest, of course, but it does help.
>> That M$ has been using the preload lockins to exclude any non Bill
>> approved ideas from the desktop.
>
>Not true either. They have had limitations on the "first boot", but OEM's
>are allowed to put anything they want on the desktop, and they always have
>been. They just haven't been allowed to remove things from the desktop.
[...]
Well, it get too boring for me, once Erik starts whipping out the
"they've not been prevented from" crap, so I'll take my leave at this
point.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: RTFM at M$
Date: 25 Feb 2001 22:37:42 -0700
T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Said Craig Kelley in alt.destroy.microsoft on 25 Feb 2001 20:59:17
> -0700;
> >T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> >> Said Erik Funkenbusch in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 25 Feb 2001
> >> >"Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> [...]
> >> >Fine. The host *DOES* implement ICMP echo.
> >>
> >> Apparently, it doesn't. I sent a ping to www.microsoft.com, and
> >> received no response.
> >>
> >> >The router inbetween the host
> >> >and the outside world doesn't allow it to pass. I know of no RFC which
> >> >requires a router to pass ICMP traffic.
> >>
> >> You don't seem to understand the workings of TCP/IP. What care I about
> >> a router? If there is no response, there is no response. The only
> >> possible explanation is a failure somewhere.
> >
> >Many organizations don't route ICMP requests. It's an easy way to
> >force network kiddies into using tools that are easier to IDS.
>
> This is a vapid fallacy, I'm afraid. Obviously, the "kiddies" are
> smarter than the administrators.
Well, when every box on the network is now a server, that's pretty
much true.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
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