Linux-Advocacy Digest #502, Volume #32 Mon, 26 Feb 01 18:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: SSH vulnerabilities - still waiting [ was Interesting article ] (The Ghost In
The Machine)
Re: Mircosoft Tax (.)
Re: Mircosoft Tax (.)
Re: Time for a Windows reinstall! (BillyG.)
Re: why open source software is better (John Hasler)
Re: Who writes open source software? (BillyG.)
Re: NT vs *nix performance (.)
Re: NT vs *nix performance (.)
Re: Is there anything like Net-Meeting on linux? (Seve)
Re: Who writes open source software? ("Phil")
Re: Does anyone know how much computer power we have/ (Peter Hayes)
Re: Mircosoft Tax (Peter Hayes)
Re: Who writes open source software? (Brian Langenberger)
Re: Kulkis haters club seeking new members (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: why open source software is better (David Masterson)
Re: Something Seemingly Simple. (Dave Vandervies)
Re: Mircosoft Tax (Stefan Ohlsson)
Re: Mircosoft Tax ("Mart van de Wege")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: SSH vulnerabilities - still waiting [ was Interesting article ]
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:11:58 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, T. Max Devlin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Mon, 26 Feb 2001 01:02:56 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>Said Chris Ahlstrom in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sun, 25 Feb 2001
>>Bob Hauck wrote:
>>>
>>> Removed comp.security.ssh from the xpost since this is no longer about
>>> SSH but rather Chad's attempting to confuse innocent bystanders with
>>> lies and propaganda.
>>
>>Take your pick:
>>
>> Chad ::= ASSHOLE
>> Chad ::= LYING PRICK
>> Chad ::= ARROGANT JERK
>> Chad ::= FAT-HEADED TROLL
>> Chad ::= MANIC DEPRESSIVE W/OCD
>> Chad ::= NET KOOK
>> Chad ::= UNINTELLIGENT FAILURE
>>
>>We've yet to see him prove otherwise.
>
>
>CHAD-MYERS-MIB DEFINITIONS ::= BEGIN
>
> IMPORTS
> microsoft FROM ONE-MICROSOFT-WAY-MIB.my
> OBJECT-TYPE FROM RFC-1212
>
> myers OBJECT IDENTIFIER ::= { microsoft W2K }
> chad OBJECT IDENTIFIER ::= { myers 1 }
>
>ChadTrollStatus OBJECT-TYPE
> SYNTAX INTEGER {
> PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE ASSHOLE(1),
> LYING PRICK (2),
> IGNORANT JERK (3),
> FAT-HEADED TROLL (4),
> MANIC DEPRESSIVE W/OCD (5),
> NET KOOK (6),
> UNINTELLIGENT SOCK-PUPPET(7)
> }
> ACCESS write-only
> STATUS unfortunate
> DESCRIPTION
> "Troll status of the net.kook Model 5; Chad Myers."
> ::= { chad 1 }
>
Ye gods. You're not going to make a RFC for this, I hope....?!
(chuckles)
[.sigsnip]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- well, there is RFC1796 and RFC1882...
EAC code #191 21d:13h:42m actually running Linux.
I was asleep at the switch the rest of the time.
------------------------------
From: . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:07:42 +1300
> Regan/Bush left us all to suffer because their ideology made them as
> blind to the truth as Erik.
Erik doesn't make us blind to the truth... in fact, he usually brings it
to light as people pick apart his arguments...
;)
(I know what you meant...)
------------------------------
From: . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:17:53 +1300
> > > OS's generally do not improve their performance significantly from
> release
> > > to release.
> >
> > If you're talking about Windoze, I agree.
>
> Really? So, Red Hat 6.1 is significantly faster than Red Hat 6.0? 5.2?
> 5.1?
Redhat is not the operating system. Redhat is a package full of OS
components and tools.
The operating system, Linux, often improves speed with each new major
version. I would consider the upgrade from 2.2 -> 2.4 similar in
concept to the upgrade from 95 -> 98, considering how different the
release schedules and philosophies of the two groups are.
------------------------------
From: BillyG. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Time for a Windows reinstall!
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:27:32 -0800
Joel Barnett wrote:
>
> "Aaron Ginn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > Well, I've finally run into a problem with Windows that I can't
> > solve. Yesterday, I was copying a CD on Windows using Nero. During
> > the copy, I saved the ripped image to disk and then copied to my new
> > CD. Nero was supposed to delete the CD image after the write but it
> > didn't. Yesterday, my C: drive filled up because the CD image was not
> > deleted. Now I'm having all kinds of problems with Windows, the most
> > annoying of which is that my scanning software does not see my scanner
> > anymore. I used the scanner before the CD write and it worked fine.
> > Now I can't get the software to even find it. I tried reinstalling
> > the drivers, changing the BIOS settings on the parallel port, and
> > changing the cable connection to every possible configuration.
> > Nothing worked.
> >
> > I've had Windows on this computer for almost two years without a
> > reinstall, so I'm actually surprised it has lasted this long.
> > Performance has reached an absolute low: cursor pauses of about 5-10
> > seconds, 3-4 blue screens a day, the inability to run more than one
> > program at a time without completely locking up the computer.
> >
> > If anyone has any suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them. My last
> > hope is to run Scandisk and Disk Defragment in hopes that the problem
> > will fix itself somehow, but I'm not confident.
> >
> > I actually don't hate Microsoft. I just think it's ridiculous that a
> > software company with so much cash and so many talented programmers
> > could churn out such shoddy products. Even though Linux has fewer
> > apps available, at least it's built on a solid foundation. Windows is
> > the house built on sand.
>
> If I understand you correctly, you are saying that a third party software
> pkg called Nero screwed up and filled up your HDD. Now your pc runs slow
> and you blame MS for this. How is MS to blame for this ?
>
>
> >
> > Aaron
> >
> > --
> > Aaron J. Ginn Phone: 480-814-4463
> > Motorola SemiCustom Solutions Pager: 877-586-2318
> > 1300 N. Alma School Rd. Fax : 480-814-4463
> > Chandler, AZ 85226 M/D CH260 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> jbarntt
>
>
It's one thing to have shoddy 3rd party software but it's another to have a
shoddy OS that could be brought down by shoddy 3rd party software.
Seve
------------------------------
From: John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Subject: Re: why open source software is better
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:24:06 GMT
David Masterson writes:
> As well as how much you pay. The only problem is that, in the past, the
> maintenance fee for free software is (more often than not) $0.
The suits want someone to be contractually obligated to maintain the
software. They need the paperwork to cover their asses with. That will
cost you money.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin
------------------------------
From: BillyG. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Who writes open source software?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:29:05 -0800
suppose wrote:
> Just curious. I'm in the commercial software development business and
> wonder who writes open source? Is it students? Professors? Hobbyists? Who
> is supporting their efforts? How do they find the time? How do the pay the
> rent?
>
> I'm not trying to be a wise ass or anything - this is a serious question
> on my part.
>
> Stu
>
Who likes to play basketball? How do they pay the rent? How do they find
the time?
Seve
------------------------------
From: . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.linux.sux,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT vs *nix performance
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:25:14 +1300
> Not quite.
> The main application itself runs on solaris and continues to do so today.
> The front end web servers used to run BSD but now run W2K.
> Never.
> Never.
> BSD is reliable - that wasn't the reason. They needed better speed and
> scaling as well as shutting up everyone who kept point to hotmail running a
> non-MS OS and trying to make like it was something more than it is.
Good points, well backed up, thoroughly beyond doubt. You've convinced
me.
------------------------------
From: . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.linux.sux,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT vs *nix performance
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:40:08 +1300
> Amazing... but I think you are lying. Why? Well, how do you figure that you,
> joe blow average user, using a piece of crap pentium pro scraper can get
> 4200 but it takes IBM a quad Xeon 700 to get 4200? You really expect me to
> believe that you generated 4200 rps on a PP200? ahahahaha
> Where is your gigabit ethernet? Did you have 4 nics and 6 10k scsi drives in
> it? or maybe your just such a software guru that you figured out how to do
> what all the engineers at IBM couldn't.
4200 requests per second, if we assume about 512 bytes per request and
the server is serving up 2k static pages, could easily be done over a
single 100Mbit connection.
4200 * 512 + 4200 * 2048 = 10752000 bytes per second
10752000 * 8 = 86016000 bits per second, easily doable with 100Mb.
Obviously this is hardly a real world scenario, (the retarded web
designers of today, fitting ANYTHING in 2k?) but it IS possible.
------------------------------
From: Seve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Is there anything like Net-Meeting on linux?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:46:35 -0800
#KUNDAN KUMAR# wrote:
> Hi all,
> I now that linux desktop is in active development and day by day things
> are getting more sophisticated. There will be many applications in a
> year or so.
> One thing I would like to ask is if there any application like
> Microsoft's Netmeeting available for linux kde/gnome? Are there any
> alpha or beta version of that? Or is someone planning to do that (don't
> ask me, the world will have to wait ad-infinitum). It would be great to
> have the functionality of sharing applications among the desktops. With
> the X-server, it must be easy to do.. can it be done to show the display
> of an app to different desktops and the application be controlled from
> different desktops. If it is so, then KDE/Gnome should have some simple
> program to set it up for the users..
> With best regards for all,
> Kundan Kumar
>
There are many aspects of X that would confuse the Windows mentality. One
of which falls under the remotely running applications category. Sorry to
bore you Penguinites with such everyday common facts... Instead of running
the whole desktop remotely, you could just opt to run the applications
remotely. Thus, cutting down on bandwidth and processing requirements.
Yeah, I'd like to see MS provide tech support via remote control over an
analog modem. It's hard enough to render and process such images on top of
having enough cpu cycles for the applications themselves over a high speed
connection.
Redmond, the mecca for Virtual-Ganja.
Seve
------------------------------
From: "Phil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Who writes open source software?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:57:27 GMT
Yes, but that kind of basketball player is seldom considered great and
seldom attracts a large fan base. To do so, would require a far greater
commitment on the part of the player. Generally, that means scholarships and
eventually a pro contract, i.e., financial support.
But how does that happen in the open source arena? I understand that a
utility here and there can happen at a hobby level of commitment. Just can't
see how it can go beyond that without financial support.
--
"BillyG." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> suppose wrote:
>
> > Just curious. I'm in the commercial software development business and
> > wonder who writes open source? Is it students? Professors? Hobbyists?
Who
> > is supporting their efforts? How do they find the time? How do the pay
the
> > rent?
> >
> > I'm not trying to be a wise ass or anything - this is a serious question
> > on my part.
> >
> > Stu
> >
>
> Who likes to play basketball? How do they pay the rent? How do they find
> the time?
>
> Seve
>
>
------------------------------
From: Peter Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Does anyone know how much computer power we have/
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:10:29 +0000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 26 Feb 2001 08:19:56 -0500, Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ground is whatever you define it to be.
>
> Thus...you can use a standard power supply, and using a voltage divider,
> designate "virtual, logical ground" to be 2.5V above the whatever is
> the "O Volts" wire on the power supply.
>
> Just change the ground accordingly.
As a completely irrelevent aside, years ago the RCA TR22 2" broadcast vt
machine used a similar system. A 90v power supply with the ground at +24v,
thus giving -24 and +70v rails (approx). The +70v rail consumption was
balanced in the main by the 24v tally lights hung across the -24v line. If
enough of these bulbs failed the rails drifted off, giving rise to obscure
faults, like the time hitting the play button caused the machine to go into
audio record.
Daft system.
Peter
------------------------------
From: Peter Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:10:30 +0000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 26 Feb 2001 05:29:42 -0600, "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> He posted the price of a refurbished floppy, not a new one. You can always
> find loss leaders.
Who on earth would refurbish a floppy when new ones cost so little. Can't
be any money in it.
Peter
------------------------------
From: Brian Langenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Who writes open source software?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:16:39 +0000 (UTC)
Phil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Yes, but that kind of basketball player is seldom considered great and
: seldom attracts a large fan base. To do so, would require a far greater
: commitment on the part of the player. Generally, that means scholarships and
: eventually a pro contract, i.e., financial support.
: But how does that happen in the open source arena? I understand that a
: utility here and there can happen at a hobby level of commitment. Just can't
: see how it can go beyond that without financial support.
The basketball analogy isn't particularly apt. The field of programming
is well-suited to hobbyist, "part-time" contributors because:
1) The basic materials (a computer, internet connection, editor,
compiler, etc.) are available for a very low (or free) cost.
2) A lot of programmers aren't intrinsically better than a few.
Thus, a small dedicated team can get real results without
having to bring in lots of help.
3) The debugging (a real time-consuming process) can be decentralized.
So, if a lot of people (the userbase) can be harnessed for bug
reports, programmers don't need to spend their own resources
looking for the hard-to-find stuff.
4) Distribution is easy. With the new pervasiveness of the web/ftp/etc.,
programmers don't have to spend a lot of resources getting their
hobbyist product out to anyone who wants it. Again, this is another
big help.
So, unlike most tangible products that require a lot of resources
to make and distribute, very good software can be written and
distributed for little more than the time and effort the programmer
puts into it. That's what makes a hobbyist open source model
feasible.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: Kulkis haters club seeking new members
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:25:37 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, woof
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Fri, 23 Feb 2001 16:45:41 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>If anyone would like to join the kulkis haters club then add you name
>and email to the end of the list
>membership includes a free kulkis voodoo doll with extra sharp pin and
>some mail bombing software already preloaded with kulkis email address
>The first 10 members also get his home address too and a parcel bomb kit
>to send him
>
>Join up now!
>Add your name to the end of this list..
>
> Woof - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Meow - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Can we find something *less* substantive to argue about?
Sheesh.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ObLinux: it works.
EAC code #191 21d:16h:57m actually running Linux.
Are you still here?
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:25:53 -0500
Subject: Re: why open source software is better
From: David Masterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>> "John" == John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> David Masterson writes:
>> As well as how much you pay. The only problem is that, in the
>> past, the maintenance fee for free software is (more often than
>> not) $0.
> The suits want someone to be contractually obligated to maintain the
> software. They need the paperwork to cover their asses with. That
> will cost you money.
Two problems with this statement:
* Suits are not dummies -- they can learn new ways of doing things and
so may not require "contractual obligation" on any but a few pieces
of software.
* Some pieces of software are such that no one wants to step up and be
"contractually obligated" for it. Many pieces of software become
useful to a company due to "internal" add-ons that people within the
company make. External entities may not want to support this.
--
David Masterson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Rational Software (but I don't speak for them)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dave Vandervies)
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Something Seemingly Simple.
Date: 26 Feb 2001 22:16:49 GMT
In article <97da6f$fvn$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Joona I Palaste <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> scribbled the following
>on comp.lang.c:
>>> 3) Because of its symbolic integration and derivation capabilities, it
>>> is forbidden in the Finnish high school graduation exams.
>
>> I think the TI-92 can do this now as well.
>
>So can the CASIO CFX-9970G, which I have. But then, I've already passed
>the high school graduation exams. I got the second highest grade for my
>math exam.
I got the highest grade in the school[2] for the exam in all three
of my OAC[1] Math exams, without a graphing calculator. In fact, if
I had had a graphing calculator, I probably wouldn't've done as well.
(Not having a calculator forces you to learn how to do something instead
of just learning how to make the calculator do it, which is Very Useful
for a lot of math, because it lets you sanity-check the calculator's
results if nothing else.)
[1] Final year of high school in Ontario, at least for the next year or two
[2] Or close; it's been long enough that I don't remember for sure
dave
--
Dave Vandervies [EMAIL PROTECTED]
We always tell people NOT to mess with their headers, and what do you
do? You go and mess with your headers. Honestly, I despair sometimes.
--Richard Heathfield flames Dan Pop in comp.lang.c
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefan Ohlsson)
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Date: 26 Feb 2001 23:53:08 +0100
On Mon, 26 Feb 2001 05:38:35 -0600, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>Said Erik Funkenbusch in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 25 Feb 2001
>>>>All of these things (floppy drive, disks, case, power supply, and a good
>>>>video card) COMBINED cost less than the price of a single copy of Windows
>>>>ME. Looks like you lose...
>>>Funny, I can't find all those things combined for $35
>>Nor can you find ME for $35, list price. What is it, $89.99?
>
>Sorry, $50
>http://www.pricewatch.com/1/182/2715-1.htm
>
I'm interested in what ME will cost me if I buy it 1) full retail version and
2) not in a computer bundle but for a computer I assembled myself that has no
OS on it yet.
A small search in a local web shop (www.skribofont.se) in Sweden (yeah, I
live here) gives me a price of 2138 SEK (US $216). I can't install an upgrade
on my new computer that has nothing to upgrade from. In a discussion about OS
pricing I think that prices of upgrades are irrelevant.
/Stefan
--
[ Stefan Ohlsson ] · There will always be survivors - Robert A. Heinlein · []
------------------------------
From: "Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:56:09 +0100
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
In article <cirm6.102$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Erik Funkenbusch"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:3a9a2332$0$24949@reader5...
>> > OS's generally do not improve their performance significantly from
>> > release to release. There is usually some, but the releases are
>> > years apart versus the months apart of hardware items.
>> <snip some more>
>>
>> So, given that the performance of the underlying hardware does
>> increase, that would mean that OS's actually decrease in relative
>> performance.
>
> How did you jump to that conclusion? What math did you use? Relative
> to what?
>
> OS performance has many factors. For instance, an OS that use unused
> memory for disk cache performs much better than one that doesn't, at the
> cost of a higher memory useage. Thus, on a machine that doesn't have
> much or any unused memory, the machine will perform poorer with the same
> CPU, even if there's otherwise no swapping.
>
>> I am quite sure you didn't mean to say that, but that's the way your
>> statement parses. Care to clarify a little? Otherwise you'd be
>> flamebait for all MS haters who'll keep on harping that the various
>> incarnations of Windows keep getting slower for the same price.
>
> I'd like to know how you came to that conclusion?
>
Ok, In simpler terms then:
1. CPUs get faster while staying at the same price. I believe I saw you
concede that point. If you didn't, I apologize, I am too tired to reread
the whole thread.
2. You get more memory at the same price, thus increasing performance
(more memory, less swapping).
3. OSs don't increase in performance, although they now run on faster
hardware.
Therefore the relative performance of OSs goes down.
QED
Mart
--
The goal of Computer Science is to build something that will last at
least until we've finished building it.
------------------------------
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