Linux-Advocacy Digest #220, Volume #33 Sat, 31 Mar 01 09:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Linux needs a standard, user proof distro (Karel Jansens)
Re: Why does Open Source exist, and what way is it developing? (Karel Jansens)
Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP. (Karel Jansens)
Re: Linux dying (Karel Jansens)
Re: Linux dying (Karel Jansens)
Re: New worm infests Linux machines/Exposes root backdoor (Karel Jansens)
Re: FW: Ethics of Circumventing OS (Karel Jansens)
Re: Java, the "Dot-Com" Language? ("Agent")
Re: the mismeasure of man (Anonymous)
Re: Communism ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Java, the "Dot-Com" Language? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Karel Jansens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux needs a standard, user proof distro
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 13:09:47 +0000
Matthew Gardiner wrote:
>
> Business's, such as IBM need to adopt the OS as a the standard right through out
> their organisation, then, the employees feel that they have to install Linux on
> their home machines so that it is compatible to work. Then, IBM partners think
> "well, IBM is very important to us, we better move over to Linux for easy sharing
> of information", so they move their computers over to linux. The ripple effect
> continues, and as more and more users get added to this base, more and more
> programs are ported, all this happened just by IBM moving to Linux, now, could
> you imagine, if General Electric, IBM, Oracle, All Government Departments, HP,
> Compaq and Dell moved all their clients from Windows to Linux, could you imagine
> the huge ripple it would create in the computer industry? it would be massive,
> Microsoft would get the shock of its life. It would not happen over night as
> many of these organisations are spread over several continents, it may take up to
> 2 years for a full transition and retraining, however, as the roll out continues,
> training organisations will offer Linux Training, and as a result, after 5 years,
> a total roll out, and Linux will become one of the major forces in the office.
>
The irony is, IMHO, that Microsoft need not be scared at all. If they
were to jump on the bandwagon, gradually drop Windows development and
convert to a platform agnostic applications development company (and get
a decent version of Office out for a change), they could ride out this
crisis without burning their collective fannies too much. Sure, they
probably would have to downsize somewhat, and learn how com-pe-ti-tion
works, but in the end they could survive and, more importantly, regain a
positive image in the eye of the public.
It'll never happen, but isn't it a nice thought?
--
Regards,
Karel Jansens
==============================================================
"You're the weakest link. Goodb-No, wait! Stop! Noaaarrghh!!!"
==============================================================
------------------------------
From: Karel Jansens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why does Open Source exist, and what way is it developing?
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 13:24:20 +0000
mlw wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I'm not sure what you are saying, but I think Darwin was right, I mean really
> right, EVERYTHING works by survival of the fittest.
>
No it doesn't. Only biological evolution in a non-controlled environment
will evolve according to the principles of natural selection.
Present-day human societies do not follow the principles of natural
selection (care for the handicapped and the elderly are two very obvious
examples).
> The problem is when we try to understand what "fittest" is. The "fittest"
> entity is very hard to predict, even when one is down does not mean it is out.
> Sometimes, a small detraction is seen in a creature, but a resurgence often
> follows. Think of the Wolf and Coyote in the U.S. Once thought to be all but
> gone, are well on their way back. They are natural survivors.
>
And how much of that is because of human intervention?
> If you want to get real into the whole darwin thing, the idea of unregulated
> everyone for themselves capitalism is very new and unproved. Typically, tribes
> or communities would work as a group and trade as a group, this anything for a
> buck mentality has always been frowned upon in the past.
>
OK, but Darwin's theory has absolutely nothing to do with economics. It
is a _biological_ theory, which only works because of the absence of
conscious control.
> Open source is more like successful human behavior than is the closed source
> model. Open Source works on a community level. We as a community share what we
> do, and trade on the output of the whole. The Microsoft's of the world can't
> hope to compete in the long run. Sooner or later, the sheer number of open
> source developers will be able to out produce every software company. Since we
> share our results we slowly build a mass of reusable code, where as companies
> that come and go never accumulate.
>
Fine. I agree with all that. But _please_ use economic models to explain
and extrapolate, not biological ones.
> Will Linux win? Who knows? Linux is getting a bit long in the teeth, and 2.4
> was a big effort. Will 2.6 be harder? What about 2.8? 3.0? Can Linux expand and
> deal with the advances in technology? Who knows. Can anyone else?
>
> My bet is on the UNIX/Open Source model.
>
I was under the impression that the terms "open source" and "win" were
mutually exclusive.
--
Regards,
Karel Jansens
==============================================================
"You're the weakest link. Goodb-No, wait! Stop! Noaaarrghh!!!"
==============================================================
------------------------------
From: Karel Jansens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP.
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 13:26:32 +0000
Matthew Gardiner wrote:
>
> One person I would really hate to see in charge of the US is Steve Jobs.
> Could you imagine the havoc that would be unlessed! some finds out a
> secret, and Steve (who is renound for is "quick to fire" response, esp.
> the case of the ATI Randeon debarkle) would nuke the person. Personally,
> I would like to see Magarate Thature in charge of the US, balls of
> steel, ruling with an iron fist.
>
Who is/was Margarate Thature?
--
Regards,
Karel Jansens
==============================================================
"You're the weakest link. Goodb-No, wait! Stop! Noaaarrghh!!!"
==============================================================
------------------------------
From: Karel Jansens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dying
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 13:34:01 +0000
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
> Said The Ghost In The Machine in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Thu, 29 Mar
> >In comp.os.linux.advocacy, WesTralia
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote
> >on Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:59:50 -0600
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >>Chad Myers wrote:
> >>>
> >>> "Chad Everett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >>>
> >>> > Will .NET benefit users: no.
> >>>
> >>> Let's see, getting real time flight information, being able to notify
> >>> my loved ones 30 minutes before I land so that they can come pick me up,
> >>> being instant messaged when I'm outbid on an auction, getting real-time
> >>> customer support chat with an American Express customer support
> >>> representative...
> >>> nah, that doesn't benefit the consumers at all!
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>Psssssssst... Mr Myers... all that technology is already in place and
> >>available, today!
> >
> ><Windows_advocate>
> >
> >Exactly, because .NET is being deployed even as we speak. :-)
> >
> ></Windows_advocate>
> >
> >
> >>
> >>Sheesh... next you'll be jumping up and down with excitement over the
> >>combustion engine.
> >
> >That's going to run .NET, too. It'll have to; the credit card company
> >will undoubtedly want to know what kinds of fuel are compatible with
> >it so that the gas pump will automatically select the correct one,
> >a form of just-in-time fuel refinement. If the credit is low,
> >one won't get gas. :-)
> >
> >The police will also be interested, should the car be reported stolen.
> >The .NET server on the engine will immediately disable the vehicle and
> >the built-in GPS system will of course report the car's location for
> >rescue and/or apprehension.
> >
> >.NET will be useful in a lot of other places, as well. For example,
> >Nielsen will want to know what TV shows are being watched, for proper
> >compensation of advertisers. Or perhaps advertisers can be immediately
> >notified that person A is watching TV show B, and target their pitches
> >automatically. .NET-aware cameras can be fed into automatic computers
> >which can detect whether a person is authorized to perform a certain
> >action, such as entering a building or a vehicle. (Yes, people will
> >be wearing .NET-aware cell phones.)
> >
> >.NET. Building Tomorrow's Big Brother Today.
> >
> >[.sigsnip]
>
> Awe. Admiration, and awe.
>
Angst, actually.
--
Regards,
Karel Jansens
==============================================================
"You're the weakest link. Goodb-No, wait! Stop! Noaaarrghh!!!"
==============================================================
------------------------------
From: Karel Jansens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dying
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 13:35:03 +0000
Roy Culley wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > "Joseph T. Adams" wrote:
> >
> > I concur with you about the PC sales. Out there now, and you probably
> > already know this, is the Sun Blade 100. A 64-bit, $950, Sparc IIe
> > processor. Does everything at this price except MS windows. And for an
> > extra $400 one can get a plug-in card if they really need MS windows.
> > This one is really going to put a crimp in intels' and AMDs new 64-bit
> > pricings.
>
> I haven't got my hands on a Sun Blade 100 yet but I don't think there is
> anyway it is going to replace PC's on the desktop. There just isn't the
> support for Sparc Linux as there is for Intel boxes. Just go to rpmfond,
> ximian, netscape and see what support there is for Sparc. I run redhat
> on my ultra-5 at work with gnome/sawfish. The only way to get recent updates
> is to comile it myself. Have you ever tried compiling sawfish? What about
> thingd like gnucash, evolution, etc? Things are even worse if you run
> Solaris. You have to compile most things yourself and sorting out dependancies
> can be a nightmare. I would rather have a PC on my desk at work running
> Linux than any Sun workstation.
Doesn't Solaris run linux binaries anymore?
--
Regards,
Karel Jansens
==============================================================
"You're the weakest link. Goodb-No, wait! Stop! Noaaarrghh!!!"
==============================================================
------------------------------
From: Karel Jansens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: New worm infests Linux machines/Exposes root backdoor
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 13:51:42 +0000
Chad Myers wrote:
>
>
> This is the biggest problem with most linvocates or Unixvocates.
> They have never used anything but Win3.x or Win9x which all are DOS
> based crap.
>
Weren't you in the crowd back then, shouting that Windows 95 did not
have DOS underneath? That it was an operating system on its own?
What made you change your mind?
--
Regards,
Karel Jansens
==============================================================
"You're the weakest link. Goodb-No, wait! Stop! Noaaarrghh!!!"
==============================================================
------------------------------
From: Karel Jansens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: FW: Ethics of Circumventing OS
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 14:23:02 +0000
GreyCloud wrote:
>
> Roberto Alsina wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 25 Mar 2001 19:09:24 -0800, GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >Found another monkey stuck in a coconut? That glitz sure gets them
> > >don't it. :-)
> >
> > Sorry, but that one flew right over my head?
> >
>
> When in panama the natives used to hollow out coconuts and bore holes in
> the sides.
> Then they's put tin-foil inside or something shiny. The coconut was
> tethered.
> The monkey sees the shiny foil and sticks his hand inside and grabs the
> shiny foil.
> He can't get his hand out because his hand is now a fist and won't pass
> thru.
> He's so greedy that he won't let go. The native then just has to walk
> up and get the monkey... still the monkey won't let go.
>
Did they learn that trick from the Kalahari Bushmen?
And if so - how?
--
Regards,
Karel Jansens
==============================================================
"You're the weakest link. Goodb-No, wait! Stop! Noaaarrghh!!!"
==============================================================
------------------------------
From: "Agent" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,misc.invest.stocks
Subject: Re: Java, the "Dot-Com" Language?
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 13:16:03 GMT
> > >J Perry Fecteau
> > >Former 6-time Mr. Internet
> > >http://perry.fecteau.com/
>
> From what I'm seeing of Sun the last two weeks they've held pretty solid
> on the market.
> Sun hasn't been resting on their laurels. They have introduced the sun
> blade 100. 64-bit processing for $950. 500 Mhz sparc IIe with 128Mb ram
> upto 2Gb. I highly doubt Sun will disappear from the market place, but
> will instead keep growing. It'll be awhile before MS comes out with
> their 64-bit O/S, which isn't available now. Also the itantium
> processor from intel is still having problems. It was supposed to be
> out last August, but its still in very limited quantities. Linux has
> IA-64 version ready for it, and HP has reportedly developed a UNIX
> version for it. The bad part of the Pentium IV right now is its heat
> dissipation... 54 watts. Yet the sparc chip doesn't dissipate that much
> power. With the rolling black outs and the political push to conserve
> power, intels going to have a temporary image problem.
First, Sun Sparc is basically a RISC Architecture and Intel is a CISC
Architecture (eventhough both have barrowed others Ideas..!) CISC puts lots
of functions(like mupltiply,divide) into one CHIP (complex) and frees up
Compiler & higher level writing. and RISC does the opposite. With that RISC
can multiply Hardware wise very fast with less heat dissipation. That's why
you can have Sparc with 50-100 processors easily. But, writing a compiler is
very complex for RISC.
As a crude comparison, a 4-processor 64 bit RISC (1) is roughly equals to
single processor 64-bit CISC (2) !! Now for a given unit of work, both (1) &
(2) will take the same time !
The advantages of RISC is it has an excellent Pipeline Architecture
(parallel processing) which if the upper level compiler & language can take
advantage(they call Scale-up). This is very good for high-end complex
processing, but has a single point of failure(E-bay !!)
CISC Achieves the same by Parallel systems (Scale-out). This is (many
systems in cluster form) very complex to manage, but as the S/W field
advances, this becomes less burdun.
So, a RISC 64-bit OS with Clock speed cannot be compared to a CISC 64-bit
with the same clock speed.
varadhg
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 06:20:11 -0700
From: Anonymous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: the mismeasure of man
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,soc.singles
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chad Everett) wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, The Danimal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > *** SNIP ***
> >
> >The average person tends not to get very far with any computer, but
> >she gets farther with Windows than with any form of Unix available
> >today.
> >
>
> This is simply because the average person uses the computer as a
> typewriter, browser, and AOL terminal. They do no COMPUTING per se.
> Brain dead gamers are in there somewhere too I suppose.
>
> If you are talking about the computer as a typewriter...hey...let the
> typists use Windows.
>
> If you are talking about computing...then that's a different matter.
> ^^^^^^^^^
then the emperor has already won...
jackie 'anakin' tokeman
men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth - more than ruin,
more even than death
- bertrand russell
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.society.liberalism,misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 08:21:02 -0500
Scott Erb wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >
> > > Under Batista there was no freedom of press, there was no free elections,
> > > the politics were of open market and savage capitalism, there was no
> > > socialized healthcare.
> >
> > See, this is why you fail.
> >
> > Capitalism is *NOT* right wing.
> > Neither is an open-market economy.
>
> Part right, part wrong. Capitalism as a system is not left or right
> wing. Battista was right wing because he was a thug who ruled with
> authoritarian methods, and basically sold out to the Mafia. Castro has
> a horrid system, I think, but it is better for average Cubans than life
> under Battista. Not that I'd recommend either path.
>
> > What you are describing is a free economic market under a non-free >state.
> >
> > Of course, freedom of any sort is destabilizing, as economic freedom
> > breeds the desire for political freedom.
>
> That is probably true. That is why China is so interesting right now.
> They watched Russia's economy collapse after "too much" political
> freedom (in their opinion) led to instability which thwarted economic
> reform. They fear China will drift into chaos and maybe civil war if
> they go that path, so they are trying to promote economic change first.
> It'll be interesting if bureaucratic elites ultimately relinquish some
> power, and if the emerging middle class demands power. Ironically,
> China's situation is reminiscient of Taiwan's about 15 or so years ago.
> China is post-Communist (despite their terminology), and following the
> kind of state capitalist path other NICs followed.
>
> -snip-
>
> > Fascism and Communism are two sides of the same coin.
>
> Perhaps that is too simplistic. Their ideologies are very different,
> but the way power gets exercised leads to possibilities of extreme abuse
> of power in each. Franco was nowhere close to communist, for instance.
> But Kurt Schumacher, the Socialist from Germany who led the SPD after
> the war, called Communists "red painted fascists" and a lot of
> Socialists and Social Democrats would certainly agree with what you say
> about communism.
>
> -snip-
>
> > Interesting. Could you point us to some position papers where they
> > promulgate the economic order of 1930's Germany and Italy, and
> > 1920's - Present Japan?
>
> The German economy in the 30's was certainly not a centrally planned
> economy, and was one of the world's only booming economies (making
> people like Charles Lindbergh say America could learn from Nazi
> Germany). It was an untenable boom, based on an arms build up, but it
> certainly wasn't anything like Stalinist Russia's policies.
>
There is a LOT of "central planning" in the economic sector of
a fascist economy. Look at the economic structure of Japan.
Mitsubishi owns thousands upon thousands of subsidiary businesses,
all for benefit of Mitsubishi. This organization comprises
about 10% of the Japanese economy. There are fewer than 15
nearly identical economic power structures in the Japanese
economy...and they all do the same thing.
Germany and Italy were the same way.
The only difference between the economic "planning" of Communism,
and the planning in a fascist economy is that under Communism, the
planning is done by politicians and/or their appointees, who write
a law, and issue it to the factory owners.
In fascism, the factory owners (i.e. the bigwigs at the top of
each of these industrial pyramids) tend to get together, and
then compose a law to give to the politicians, who rubber stamp
it (out of fear of falling out of favor with the factory owners).
> > Last I checked, most of these groups were ragging on the Japanese
> > economic model...which, if you do your homework, has been fascist
> > for 80 years now.
>
> ???? Fascist Japan???
Absolutely. Do some research, and you will see.
>
> -snip rest, no comments on those points-
> cheers, scott
> http://violet.umf.maine.edu/~erb/
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,misc.invest.stocks,comp.arch
Subject: Re: Java, the "Dot-Com" Language?
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 08:31:49 -0500
Agent wrote:
>
> > > >J Perry Fecteau
> > > >Former 6-time Mr. Internet
> > > >http://perry.fecteau.com/
> >
> > From what I'm seeing of Sun the last two weeks they've held pretty solid
> > on the market.
> > Sun hasn't been resting on their laurels. They have introduced the sun
> > blade 100. 64-bit processing for $950. 500 Mhz sparc IIe with 128Mb ram
> > upto 2Gb. I highly doubt Sun will disappear from the market place, but
> > will instead keep growing. It'll be awhile before MS comes out with
> > their 64-bit O/S, which isn't available now. Also the itantium
> > processor from intel is still having problems. It was supposed to be
> > out last August, but its still in very limited quantities. Linux has
> > IA-64 version ready for it, and HP has reportedly developed a UNIX
> > version for it. The bad part of the Pentium IV right now is its heat
> > dissipation... 54 watts. Yet the sparc chip doesn't dissipate that much
> > power. With the rolling black outs and the political push to conserve
> > power, intels going to have a temporary image problem.
>
> First, Sun Sparc is basically a RISC Architecture and Intel is a CISC
> Architecture (eventhough both have barrowed others Ideas..!) CISC puts lots
> of functions(like mupltiply,divide) into one CHIP (complex) and frees up
> Compiler & higher level writing. and RISC does the opposite. With that RISC
> can multiply Hardware wise very fast with less heat dissipation. That's why
> you can have Sparc with 50-100 processors easily. But, writing a compiler is
> very complex for RISC.
>
Hate to burst your bubble, but modern "RISC-based" CPUs are indistinguishable
from modern "CISC-based" CPUs.
> As a crude comparison, a 4-processor 64 bit RISC (1) is roughly equals to
> single processor 64-bit CISC (2) !! Now for a given unit of work, both (1) &
> (2) will take the same time !
>
> The advantages of RISC is it has an excellent Pipeline Architecture
> (parallel processing) which if the upper level compiler & language can take
> advantage(they call Scale-up). This is very good for high-end complex
> processing, but has a single point of failure(E-bay !!)
>
> CISC Achieves the same by Parallel systems (Scale-out). This is (many
> systems in cluster form) very complex to manage, but as the S/W field
> advances, this becomes less burdun.
>
> So, a RISC 64-bit OS with Clock speed cannot be compared to a CISC 64-bit
> with the same clock speed.
>
> varadhg
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
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