Linux-Advocacy Digest #327, Volume #33 Tue, 3 Apr 01 19:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: What Linux MUST DO! - Comments anyone? (Rex Ballard)
Re: AMD is to Intel as "What OS" is to Windows? (Trevor Zion Bauknight)
Re: Windows "speed" ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000? (Form@C)
Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000? (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Re: Communism ("billh")
Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism) ("billh")
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised ("Zed Mister")
Re: Java, the "Dot-Com" Language? ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised (MR SINISTER)
Re: Why does Open Source exist, and what way is it developing? (mlw)
Re: Windows "speed" (".")
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised ("J")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Rex Ballard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What Linux MUST DO! - Comments anyone?
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 22:01:12 GMT
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So the bottom line is that what you really needed was to know
BEFORE you bought your machine that:
1. You wanted to try Linux
2. That the Computer you were purchasing was Linux compatible.
Scott Gardner wrote:
>
> On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:24:01 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chad
> Everett) wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:17:46 GMT, Scott Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>On 19 Mar 2001 09:42:58 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick
> >>Condon) wrote:
> >>
> >>>Eugenio Mastroviti wrote:
> >>>>Nick Condon wrote:
> >>>>> Bringing up a Linux installation is *easier* than doing it in Windows.
> >>>>
> >>>>This is simply not true. Again, it is from my and your point of view (a
> >>>>*really working* Win installation is not simply harder, it's
> >>>>impossible...). It is not from Joe User's point of view.
Now that you've identified the actual hardware chosen to install Linux
(described below) - it's easy to see why you would have this
perception.
I have had WONDERFUL results with Thinkpad i1400, i1200, T20, T21,
600E,
770, 760, and 360. I've also had pretty good results with most
versions
of the Personal Computer 300. I've also had very good results with
Dell
laptop and desktop machines.
Unfortunately, what you did was almost the equivalent of purchasing
a Mac and then get upset because it wouldn't run your Windows programs
without purhasing extra software.
> >>>The only people who install operating systems are people who build their
> >>>own PCs and corporate techies. Everyone else gets a PC with an OS already
> >>>on it, so Joe User is irrelevant to this discussion.
> >>
> >><<SNIP>>
> >>
> >>>Nick
> >>
> >>True, but if Linux is going to gain a large foothold in the desktop
> >>market, it's going to be these "Joe User"s that make the difference.
Yes. Every computer manufacturer should have a little penguin in the
corner if it's Linux compatible. Many machines do have Linux
compatibility
stickers.
You may not have to purchase a preinstalled Linux machine to run
Linux,
but you should at least avoid known Linux-hostile hardware and
software.
If you aren't certain, ask the sales professional, and if the install
goes badly, send the machine back to where it came from.
OEMs need to know that you want Linux compatibility.
Some hardware vendors don't want so support Linux AT ALL. This may
be because they have agreements with Microsoft which prevent them
from supporting Linux. In other cases, they may be under the mistaken
belief that they MUST provide source code and confidential
information.
Others simply don't know whether there is a market there or not. Many
aftermarket vendors are VERY Linux aware. You'll see penguins or
Linux
compatibility logos on the box. This can mean anything from pure
plug-n-play
to the inclusion of Linux specific drivers and even Linux driver
source code.
> >>By this, I mean the people that already have Windows and for whatever
> >>reason, want to switch to Linux. Either the installation and (more
> >>importantly) configuration is going to have to be streamlined and
> >>simplified, or they'll just have to wait until there is a wide variety
> >>of off-the-shelf desktops from places like Dell and Gateway before
> >>Linux will get the really large numbers in the consumer desktop field.
More importantly, OEMs will have to be much more careful about
accurately
labeling their products. They should probably indicate "Windows
Only",
"Windows Installed, Linux Compatible", and "Linux Installed".
Most of the distributors are happy to include drivers, in any form,
for nearly anyone who is willing to provide them. The biggest barrier
may be Microsoft. For example, many USB vendors with complex
interactions
are forbidden to support Linux through their NDAs.
> >> I installed RH 7.0, and while the installation itself went very
> >>smoothly, a significant portion of my hardware isn't supported by RH
> >>7.0. So while the installation was virtually idiot-proof, I'm left
> >Tell us the hardware that you have that's not supported by RH 7
> >
> >
> Well, I've posted it on the list before, but here goes a shortened
> version of that post.
>
> Promise Fastrak 100 IDE RAID card. It is supported by RH 7.0 by
> means of a pre-compiled binary driver from promise, but didn't work
> when I upgraded to kernel 2.4.2. Promise says that they're working on
> a way to provide Linux support without disclosing any proprietary
> source code, but I'll just have to wait until they release support for
> the 2.4 kernel.
How many IDE cards are there? How many of these cards are supported
directly supported by Linux? How many RAID cards are supported?
But you chose to pick one of the few vendors known to have very
limited support. You say you are an unsophisticated user, but that's
pretty sophisticated hardware. Not only do you not qualify as "Joe
User",
you can't qualify this machine as a "Joe User" machine.
> Diamond Monster Sound MX 400 and MX 300 sound cards. The MX 400 uses
> the Canyon ESS 3D chipset. I can't remember what chipset the MX 300
> uses, but I have the card lying around here. I ended up just buying
> an older SoundBlaster AWE 64 card for compatibility's sake..
Again, how many cards ARE supported? How many chip sets ARE
supported?
Would you say that these cards are "Joe User" cards or something that
you'd use for a recording studio.
> Diamond Supramax 56k modem. Not Linux's fault--I didn't realize at
> the time I bought it that it was a Winmodem, so 'nuff said. Replaced
> it with a US Robotics 56k External model.
Linux does support Rockwell and Lucent chip set winmodems now. You
have
to download the drivers, and you have to load the modules, but you can
get support. Still, the USR is a better choice. When you get a Cable
modem
or DSL, you'll be using ethernet anyway.
> Epson Photo Stylus 875DC USB inkjet printer. May work under kernel
> 2.4, but until I can get the RAID card working in 2.4 I can't do any
> serious work in 2.4, so I haven't investigated further. Seems to me
> that USB support in kernel 2.2 is pretty much limited to keyboards and
> mice. (Both my USB keyboard and USB mouse worked great from the start
> under 2.2, by the way. This was a pleasant surprise.)
What was the problem with a parallel port printer? Did the USB
printer
have a "Linux Compatible" label on it. Did a sales professional tell
you that this would be a good Linux printer. You should take this
printer
back and exchange it for a printer that meets your needs. Epson makes
several fine printers that run very well with Linux.
> Toshiba PDR-M4 digital camera USB interface. Same situation as the
> Epson Printer.
Again, did your camera say "Linux compatible?". Did you check the
compatibility before you purchased it? Would you purchase an
appletalk
printer for your Windows machine?
If you need advice from a sales clerk, ask. If the clerk can't
accurately
answer your question, go to another store. If you want to run Linux,
purchase equipment that supports Linux.
Would you hire a keynote motivational speaker who only spoke Spanish
for an audience that mostly spoke only English?
> Pacific Image Electronics flatbed scanner. Has a proprietary
> half-card SCSI interface, and I haven't been able to get Linux to
> recognize it yet. The SANE page lists the scanner as being
> unsupported/untested.
Scanners is a nasty territory. You might be able to get a SCSI card
that can support a SCSI scanner, and you might be able to get a
set of modules that handle the handshake protocol, but this area
does need some attention. I eventually tried 3 scanners before
finding
one that I really liked. There is a good compatibility table at the
SANE
web site.
> Pinnacle Studio DV10 Plus A/V image capture board/output board. Not
> even CLOSE to getting this one recognized under Linux, but I don't
> have any Linux software for doing video capturing anyway.
Actually, you do, but you just don't know it. Linux comes with a
couple
of video editing packages that enable you to edit MPEG video. There
are
filters and converters that allow you to convert various formats to
standard MPEG and back again. Legally, you cannot use DVD frames on
either
Windows or Linux (unless you want to get a license from the MPAA).
> Diamond Viper II AGP graphics card. This one uses the Savage 2000 3D
> chipset. Not sure if I could have gotten this one working, but I went
> ahead and replaced it with an older PCI Diamond Viper V330 that I had
> lying around (Riva 128 Chipset), and the V330 was recognized right off
> the bat. I don't think any of the whiz-bang 3D features are
> supported, but at least X recognized the chipset with no problems.
If you use the I128 X-server, many features are supported. I like S3
chips as well because they get such good Linux support.
Linux supports numerous video cards, some better than others, but
the right video card can make a big difference, especially on
sub-100 MHz Pentium machines.
> I'm making do in the meantime by just using older equipment that I
> have lying around. My HP Deskjet 660C is doing fine for colour
> printing, as long as I don't want true photo-quality. I never used
> the 4-speaker output or S/PIF outputs on either of the two Diamond
> sound cards, so the AWE 64 really isn't all that much of a step
> backwards. The USB printer and camera might be supported under kernel
> 2.4 just fine for all I know, but until I can get the RAID card
> working under 2.4, I'm pretty much stuck.
Just so we can avoid this Linux-hostile nightmare, could you please
tell us the Make and model of the original stock machine? Which OEM
did you purchase it from? Someone had to work really hard to create
that nightmare machine. I'd love to know who did it.
> Scott
--
Rex Ballard
It Architect
http://www.open4success.com
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------------------------------
From: Trevor Zion Bauknight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: AMD is to Intel as "What OS" is to Windows?
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 21:46:03 GMT
In article <0hpy6.1801$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Beth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > ATM as in Automated Teller Machine???? If u mean this then I have to
> > disappoint u (or not depends on your oppioniun about MS), anyway there are
> > Automated Teller Machines running on MS-Windows!!!! Years ago I even saw
> an
> > ATM running on DOS........
>
> Frank's got it right, I'm afraid to say...I once used an ATM that has a
> Windows dialogue box complaining of a "missing component" across the
> screen...the ATM still actually worked, mind you, it just had this big
> dialogue box covering half the screen, so unless you knew which options to
> pick then it'd be useless because you couldn't read them...
That's when you ask it for $20K and see if it gives it to you...
Trev
--
"I think Trevor is an idot. Just the kind of robot President CLITton likes.
Supid people!" - Husker Kev
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows "speed"
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 23:39:44 +0200
"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:Ulry6.518$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > You are bashing Windows, right?
> > At least do so *intelegently*!
>
> intelligently, perhaps?
I've have the excuse of english being a second language (well, forth
language, actually).
> Anyway, how am I not being intelligent? I would really love to know how
you
> think not looking up every flaw in Windows (fuck, there's a task) to post
to
> a newsgroup is not being intelligent.
>
> To put it another way, what did I say that was blatantly stupid?
Take the SpecWeb99 we had a while ago (not you an me, the whole *.advocary
groups)
There has been a lot of points about 3% difference on identical machines,
remember?
And all this time, *no one* brought this numbers:
http://www.spec.org/osg/web99/results/res2001q1/web99-20010122-00096.asc
http://www.spec.org/osg/web99/results/res2001q1/web99-20010117-00093.asc
(IIS5, dual CPU, 1117 & 1159)
http://www.spec.org/osg/web99/results/res2001q1/web99-20010122-00095.asc
(Tux 2.0, once CPU, 1438)
You *see* what I'm talking about?
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.advocacy,alt.solaris.x86,comp.unix.solaris
Subject: Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Form@C)
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 22:08:05 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard L. Hamilton) wrote in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
<snip>
>Well, I may or may not bother to read these things. But I assume that
>people send Word documents mostly because they're clueless f#@%wits
<snip>
Or, of course, they are employees of huge multinational companies whose IT
departments won't allow them to use any other wp than Word. It's really
annoying when I want to use Star Office and it isn't compatible enough.
They arn't allowed to use Star, I have to be compatible therefore I have to
use Word!
--
Mick
Olde Nascom Computers - http://www.mixtel.co.uk
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Subject: Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000?
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.advocacy,alt.solaris.x86,comp.unix.solaris
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 00:24:30 +0200
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Pete Mullins" <pmullin@> writes:
> Regardless of how Word users look, they expect the documents that they
> receive can be opened and intelligible.
You forgot the smiley :-)
And you quoted Jeopardy style, making the wit almost
impossible to spot. But you're using Outlook Express,
and allow it to impose its (lack of) style on you.
> Since everyone uses Word, this can usually be taken for granted.
This is demonstrably false, as I am not using Word, and hence
not everyone is using it.
> On the odd occasion that they receive a document that does not
> originate from Word, of course it is great if the
> document can be opened. The odd formatting error can be forgiven in this
> case. But then it is a one-in-a-million occurrence.
Indeed. My customers report many formatting problems when
opening third-party Word documents, especially when complex
formatting is used. It's amazing that an application such
as StarOffice generates better Word documents than Word itself;
formatting problems are very rare (about one in a million
documents ;-) I'm very pleased your experience paralles mine.
>
> "Ian Davey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan
> A Eeckels) wrote:
>>
>> >This experience has taught me that Word users don't seem
>> >to mind "minor" formatting problems when opening third-party
>> >documents.
>>
>> That's because they tend to look pretty crappy anyway, so you don't
> normally
>> notice.
>>
--
Stefaan
--
How's it supposed to get the respect of management if you've got just
one guy working on the project? It's much more impressive to have a
battery of programmers slaving away. -- Jeffrey Hobbs (comp.lang.tcl)
------------------------------
From: "billh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 22:32:35 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis"
> You're just jealous that I was personally invited to dinner at the
> Theater Commander's quarters as a lowly PFC...and YOU'VE NEVER BEEN, EVER!
LOL!!! There is nothing about you, a "war-hero" wannabe and liar, that
makes me jealous. LOL!!! You are truly delusional as well as pathetic.
Keep going. We're having fun now. LOL!!!
------------------------------
From: "billh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism)
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 22:35:07 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis"
> Yes. I volounteered to uphold my DUTY,
Is that what you call the statement that you'd only elect to attend PLDC in
the event of another war. That ain't duty KuKuNut. That is malingering.
------------------------------
From: "Zed Mister" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 22:37:32 GMT
It's irrelevant. If we block access, we'll get so many calls that we'd have
to quadruple the technical support staff (understatement) to deal with it.
Furthermore, once we explain to the users what we have done and why, they
will cancel their accounts with extreme prejudice and we'll likely lose a
large majority of our customer base. So, yeah, I don't think the company
wants to go bankrupt for something like this. The problems of Microsoft's
licensing agreements pale in comparison to having no company at all.
"Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Are you saying (assuming Chad is correct in his interpretation) that
> your company doesnt mind any commuications it sends through Hotmail
> becoming the property of Micro$oft?
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,misc.invest.stocks,comp.arch
Subject: Re: Java, the "Dot-Com" Language?
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 00:20:57 +0200
"Jonathan Thornburg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9ad4u3$v9g$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >modern "RISC-based" CPUs are indistinguishable
> >from modern "CISC-based" CPUs.
>
> In article <9a5cl7$mlu$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Mats Olsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> pointed out that
> > Almost indistinguishable. The "CISC" ones have a CISC->RISC
translation
> >stage when code is loaded from memory. Costs a bit, but nowadays more
than
> >offset by being on the leading edge process wise.
>
> The article
> http://www.realworldtech.com/insider/RISC-vs-CISC-1.cfm
> "RISC vs. CISC Still Matters"
> By Paul DeMone, Feb 13, 2000
> gives a nice introduction to this.
404 message, sorry.
------------------------------
From: MR SINISTER <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 18:40:38 -0400
Zed Mister wrote:
> I sure as hell would not want to deal with tech support calls from users
> who can't send or receive mail through hotmail if the isp admin decided to
> block
> access to it. A huge majority of legitimate mail that passes through our
> mail servers originates from hotmail. If you're some sort of admin and
> have actually gone ahead and banned hotmail access from your mail server,
> prepare to be yelled at by your boss or worse.
>
> "Chad Everett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > msn.com 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> services will be accepted.
> > msn.net 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> services will be accepted.
> > microsoft.com 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from
> > their
> services will be accepted.
> > microsoft.net 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from
> > their
> services will be accepted.
> > hotmail.com 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> services will be accepted.
> > hotmail.net 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> services will be accepted.
>
>
>
My girlfriend uses MSN, and just as a side note, my isp has blocked her
twice now, just because of domain name. Could it be similar to the number
of porn related .msn emails I get from my hotmail account (Which I use for
spam blockage) ???
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why does Open Source exist, and what way is it developing?
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 18:59:29 -0400
Karel Jansens wrote:
>
> mlw wrote:
> >
> > Karel Jansens wrote:
> > > In reality, random mutations play a very minor part in how species
> > > change. Genetics are far more important. Without sexual reproduction,
> > > species change at a much slower rate; without mutations, we would
> > > probably not notice any difference.
> >
> > I think this is wrong. It is through random mutation that new features are
> > developed. A slight discoloration here, an odd shaped bone there, should one of
> > these allow a creature to escape a predator, somehow survive better in an
> > environment, or even be more attractive to the opposite sex, violla! something
> > that will carry on to the next generation. If the offspring are successful,
> > then we have a small step in evolution.
> >
> > There is precedent.
> >
> Just in case we are talking about the same thing: by "mutation" do you
> maen the genetic variations that result from sexual reproduction, or
> merely those that are the result from cosmic particle impacts?
It does not matter for this discussion, both do the same thing.
--
I'm not offering myself as an example; every life evolves by its own laws.
========================
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows "speed"
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 10:57:56 +1200
> I've have the excuse of english being a second language (well, forth
> language, actually).
I have the dubious benefit of being a native speaker. What's really funny
is that your English is better than that of a LOT of native speakers.
> Take the SpecWeb99 we had a while ago (not you an me, the whole *.advocary
> groups)
> There has been a lot of points about 3% difference on identical machines,
> remember?
Actually, I'm not sure I paid much attention to the specweb thing. I saw
multiple thousands of references to it in other threads though. I'm
assuming linux was ahead by the 3%, since that seems to be the angle of most
of the references.
> And all this time, *no one* brought this numbers:
>
> http://www.spec.org/osg/web99/results/res2001q1/web99-20010122-00096.asc
> http://www.spec.org/osg/web99/results/res2001q1/web99-20010117-00093.asc
> (IIS5, dual CPU, 1117 & 1159)
>
> http://www.spec.org/osg/web99/results/res2001q1/web99-20010122-00095.asc
> (Tux 2.0, once CPU, 1438)
Well, since the specweb comments I've seen often make references to Tux, I
can only say it appears to me that these were the numbers that stuck in
people's heads. But as I say, I haven't read the a.d.m debate on those
results.
> You *see* what I'm talking about?
Yep... something that has nothing to do with me, apparently ;)
------------------------------
From: "J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 09:04:33 +1000
That is what licence agreements are for. You read them and then agree to
them or you don't. My advice don't use the service. As for banning incoming
mail from M$ that sounds like something they would do.
"Chad Everett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> ******************************************************
> By Chuck Mead on Monday April 02 2001 @ 11:55PM EDT
> http://www.moongroup.com/stories.php?story=01/04/02/0156291
>
> Microsoft should be feared and despised!
> ----------------------------------------
>
> After taking the time to read the Microsoft Passport Web Site Terms of Use
> and Notices I have had a belly full of them. The potential damage they can
> do with this license is staggering. I encourage everyone to take the time
to read it,
> particularly the section entitled "LICENSE TO MICROSOFT". If you've ever
> had any doubts about the nature of that company reading that section
should
> put them to rest for good and all!
>
> I don't know how many times I've heard Microsoft described as "evil" by
> Linux zealots and open source supporters (which I am both) and thought,
> "They're losing it... Microsoft is just a company!" but now I'm forced
> to agree with them. This license is heinous, and more, it's frightening
> because I know that some people won't read it and will lose the rights
> to their own data/content without knowing. Add that to the fact that
> the license is clearly attempting to gain the rights to *ALL CONTENT
> WHICH PASSES OVER ANY SERVICE THEY PROVIDE*. For example... this
> article could be copied by someone and sent to someone else who uses
> the hotmail email service. According to the license Microsoft would then
> own the rights to this article! Unbelieveable you say? Go read it and see
> for yourself.
>
> Most of the time when confronted with things like this I may rage for
> a while but I usually conclude that there is little that I can do to
> cause the policy to change so why bother doing anything at all but not
> this time!
>
> Effective with this posting the following blocks are in place against
> email inbound to MoonGroup.com or any of it's domains. If you truly
> understand what their license means you will do the same on your mail
> server.
>
> msn.com 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
services will be accepted.
> msn.net 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
services will be accepted.
> microsoft.com 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
services will be accepted.
> microsoft.net 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
services will be accepted.
> hotmail.com 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
services will be accepted.
> hotmail.net 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
services will be accepted.
>
> As this is clearly a pre-cursor of what Microsoft's .Net initative is
> all about I will be watching very closely to see where it goes. I had
> thought that SOAP might be something very useful which would help to
> open them up a bit but after reading this license it's clear to me that
> all that .Net and Hailstorm are going to be is just another sad example
> of "embrace and extend".
>
> I fear them for what they are doing! I despise them for doing it!
>
> Good luck to all of us... we're going to need it!
>
>
> Here are some related links:
>
> The Register.COM article:
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/18002.html
>
> Troubleshooters.COM new copyright and other articles:
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/cpyright.htm
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200104/200104.htm#_new_copyright
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200104/200104.htm#_three_articles
>
> LEAP Thread (first article in thread):
> http://lists.leap-cf.org/pipermail/leaplist/2001-April/011248.html
>
> By Chuck Mead on Monday April 02 2001 @ 11:55PM EDT
>
> ******************************************************
>
>
>
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