Linux-Advocacy Digest #340, Volume #33 Wed, 4 Apr 01 05:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Communism ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: ATTN: Outlook Express Users and Virus's ("Matthew Gardiner")
Re: IE again: MS simply =?iso-8859-1?q?doesn=B4t?= get it right ("Neeko Neekosan")
Re: Communism (GreyCloud)
Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000? (GreyCloud)
Re: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure (GreyCloud)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 04:24:19 -0400
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, T. Max Devlin
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Mon, 02 Apr 2001 22:07:29 GMT
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >Said The Ghost In The Machine in alt.destroy.microsoft on Mon, 02 Apr
> >>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, T. Max Devlin
> > [...]
> >>>>(Side note: as I understand it, communism in its pure form is
> >>>>an economic system, always (at least, when done at the country level)
> >>>>implemented by some sort of authoritarian rule as it is not compatible
> >>>>with the "natural human state" of being greedy -- or, as a friend of
> >>>>mine once put it, "having enlightened self-interest",
> >>>>which sounds better and is more accurate.)
> >>>
> >>>Well, that's the problem. For a country to be "communist", "communism"
> >>>needs to be defined as a political system or it becomes a
> >>>self-conflicted concept. You can't run a country with capitalism,
> >>>regardless of how important capitalism is to running a country. Your
> >>>point is valid, as communism is often seen as a social philosophy
> >>>indicating an economic model (socialism), and whether a communist or
> >>>socialist country uses one or the other label is relatively meaningless.
> >>
> >>Agreed, from an operational standpoint. It'll be interesting to see
> >>how the Chinese experiment holds out (they're trying for the combination
> >>of an authoritarian government and a capitalist economy, apparently), but
> >>it's clear that communism and authoritarianism/socialism track very
> >>closely in actual implementations.
> >
> >To be honest, I think that's misstating the case. It is more consistent
> >to say that representational democracy tracks capitalism very precisely,
> >both in theory and in practice. The link between communism, an inferior
> >political system to representational democracy, and socialism, likewise
> >in practice an inferior economic system in comparison to capitalism, is
> >simply a perception, and a mistaken perspective if taken
> >philosophically, I think.
> >
> >If it weren't for the fact that I cannot condone "experimentation on
> >live human beings", I'd agree with you about the Chinese scenario.
>
> I'l merely note that the US is a grand experiment, as well -- and has
> been for 230 years. :-)
>
> >
> >>>But I was trying to illuminate, by simply pointing it out, that for
> >>>Aaron to berate both Marx, who was simply a philosopher, and the USSR,
> >>>simply because both were communist, is to indicate that certain thoughts
> >>>are not aloud to be thought. This seems to me to ironically mirror
> >>
> >>Or maybe not allowed to be expressed aloud. :-)
> >
> >To support one is to require the other, regardless of which one comes
> >first. If Aaron's apparent position (I say that because I believe it
> >isn't really a coherent position to begin with, as he exhibits many of
> >the indications of being a paranoid schizophrenic) were merely an attack
> >on the principle of free speech, it might at least be possible to
> >communicate with him. As it is, he's launched a private war on all
> >concepts of reason.
> >
> >>>Marx's own work, of course, and makes clear that Kulkis is about as
> >>>close to a fascist as you can get and still live a responsible life.
> >>>
> >>>I do think its just playing with fire giving him a gun, of course. But
> >>>only as a military person; as a private citizen, I'm afraid he should be
> >>>as free to own a firearm as any other person. Now isn't that a scary
> >>>idea?
> >>
> >>No more than some of the others I can think of, admittedly. If a
> >>country has to protect itself from its own citizenry, it will have
> >>some nasty problems.
> >
> >Which devolves, I'm afraid, into the primordial ooze of philosophical
> >consideration: does have a majority of citizens still willing to kill
> >the rebels make such a government moral or just?
>
> Agreed.
>
> >
> >>I do not buy into the "let's get the guns off
> >>the street" arguments of HCI, although I'm not sure how to reduce
> >>the carnage at this time (ideally, the citizenry would shoot them
> >>dead, or threaten to, and they'd think twice about shooting their
> >>rivals -- of course, the gangsters might also shoot the citizenry,
> >>but then other citizenry might step in!).
> >
> >What is "HCI"?
>
> Handgun Control, Incorporated. I'm not sure if that's a real group,
> or a strawman created by the more rabid pro-gun crowd, but the idea
> of HCI is apparently that guns must be kept off the streets, that gun
> purchases should have a background check, felons should not have guns,
> assault rifles aren't legal, they don't like concealed carry laws, etc.
>
1.) HCI *IS* a real, federally recognized, non-profit organizaton.
2.) HCI's position is that NOBODY should have guns (neither handguns,
rifles, nor shotguns) except government employees like
police and soldiers (who, ironically, almost unanimously
despise HCI and their political agenda).
> I'll admit I could be misrepresenting their position, but that's
> what I remember. On the surface, they seem reasonable -- but then,
> so do _1984_'s "telescreens". Look further down and one gets a
> nasty agenda -- does the US Constitution require that convicted
> felons can't have a firearm, for example? (There might be a
> court case somewhere; I'd have to look.)
A convicted felon loses certain rights because he has been proven
to be a gross violator of other people's rights.
The loss of these rights is similar to an ongoing house-arrest.
An alternative could be that ANY felony conviction is punishable
by a life sentance.
>
> >Personally, I'm as moderately radical in my thinking on
> >gun control as I am in public education.
>
> It would seem that nowadays anyone who advocates gun ownership
> at all is "moderately radical". :-) (Personally, I'm ambivalent.
> I don't like the idea of guns, but recognize that others may
> feel the need for self-defense and that there is no rational reason
> to outright ban them; in this respect, my position parallels that of
> abortion, which is another can of worms. In any event, if there are
> no guns in the citizenry, what's to prevent the police, or any other
> duly designated arm of the government system, from confiscating everything?
> Admittedly, that's a bit black-and-white, but that's one reason
> Amendment II is there in the first place, along with III, IV, V, ... :-) )
>
> >Bizarrely, Aaron would agree
> >with my stance on firearms, but would put me in front of a firing squad
> >for my stance on public education (which is, incidentally, that it is
> >the only thing worthy of the description "education", all private
> >education being indoctrination, by definition.)
> >
> >Though it certainly isn't a short-term strategy, I believe that the way
> >to prevent "gun violence" is to stop pretending that the issue is how
> >convenient it is to be violent. Almost all of the most shocking recent
> >incidents involved lengthy planning and preparation. Making guns less
> >convenient, or even all-together illegal as private property, wouldn't
> >have any effect, from the looks of things.
>
> Nor would it really do anything regarding criminal activity, either;
> it'll just make the citizenry more defenseless.
>
> I for one agree with you there.
>
> >
> >>It has already been noted elsewhere that Hitler disarmed
> >>the citizenry first. I think the US government hasn't quite gone
> >>that far, but it's possible we're being seduced into giving up
> >>a primary line of defense against a tyrannical organization.
> >>
> >>Paranoid? Perhaps. But "it can't happen here" can happen here.
> >
> >The sentiment is certainly not paranoid; it is the basis of much of
> >America's wisdom, this idea of needing to be "ever vigilant". There's
> >no argument nearer and dearer to USAian's hearts than the "slippery
> >slope" argument.
> >
> >The only time it becomes delusional, or an indication of paranoia or
> >paranoid schizophrenia, is when you believe that there is a
> >consciousness behind this "attempt" to "seduce" people.
>
> I'm not sure there isn't, admittedly! Yes, that sounds slightly
> strange, but I'm a believer in the "wolfpack" or "follow the crowd"
> principle: "everyone else is doing it so it must be OK".
It's called "social proof". Women rely on it VERY heavily for
a great many of their decisions.
The easiest way to sell something ridiculous to a woman is to tell
her that all the other women are buying it.
This uses social proof at two levels:
a) "Other women bought it, therefore, I don't have to investigate
it myself." This is one reason why jerks get strings of
girls one after another, and why the most powerful article
a man can wear to attract women is...a wedding ring, or
something that looks like one.
b) Fear of negative social proof (If I don't buy this, and other
women find out that I didn't, they'll think I'm a loser.)
This is why women are the primary driving force behind the "must keep
up with the Joneses" mentality of consumerism.
> Of course, that doesn't mean that it's all that directed, or that
> there's a conspiracy of, say, the Bavarian Illuminati running things;
> that would just be ridiculous. But man is a social animal,
> and we see things and copy them.
>
> One might call this a "meta-consciousness", or perhaps a societal force.
> It's similar to the "forces" "driving" the stock market -- there is no
> force driving the stock market (to be extremely pedantic, a force
> implies that an object is impelled to move), but there is some
> sort of aggregate consensus and/or notion to buy or sell. Why, I
> don't really know; there are time I wish the stock market reflected
> more accurately a company's predicted fortunes.
>
> I'd suggest this sort of thing lies in ourselves, not in an outside
> agency. It's very hard to be an individual nowadays.
>
> >Its the very
> >forces of nature which inevitably cause government to oppress the
> >citizenry, and requires no evil mastermind. Whenever someone's
> >political discussion requires a non-abstract evil mastermind (or an evil
> >scapegoat), you know they're getting close to the edge.
>
> If one calls one's opponent an idiot, one has effectively lost the
> argument. Unfortunately, this has two consequences:
>
> [1] If the opponent does not understand the sender's argument, then
> the sender has failed to convey his case; the sender subsequently
> calling the opponent an idiot may be a self-failing.
> [2] If the opponent cannot understand the sender's argument, no matter
> how cogently produced, then it's clear the discussion will evolve
> into a less useful direction.
>
> These are why peer review is important in science; the maverick is at
> a bit of a disadvantage, unfortunately. (These also explain why I
> try to refrain calling my opponents idiots. Sometimes, I succeed. :-) )
>
> >
> >--
> >T. Max Devlin
> > *** The best way to convince another is
> > to state your case moderately and
> > accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
>
> Looks like we more or less agree. :-)
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
> EAC code #191 57d:06h:51m actually running Linux.
> No electrons were harmed during this message.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ATTN: Outlook Express Users and Virus's
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 20:29:30 +1200
I normally watch around 3-4 hours television a week, and that is normally on
Tuesday, when I watch at 10:00pm, Pulp Comedy (standup comedian show,
Channel 2) - Hosted by Mike King, 11:00pm The Young Ones (Channel 1),
12:00pm Ben Elton (Channel 1).
Matthew Gardiner
"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >
> > green wrote:
> > >
> > > Reality TV crap.
> >
> > Also known as "broadcast content without having to pay script writers,
> > actors, sets, etc."
> >
>
> Ok. GAG!! And the stores want me to buy into HDTV. Not much to look
> at anymore.
> I think I'll keep my 20 year old set.
>
>
> > > "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > >
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Matthew Gardiner wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Geeze you yanks have a real problem with a sense of humour.
> > > > >
> > > > > Matthew Gardiner
> > > > >
> > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, 31 Mar 2001 14:16:07 +1200, Matthew Gardiner
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > >Use a valid email address to make yourselfa accountable for you
> > > posting.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you have more than 5 brains cells at your disposal, you'd be
able
> > > to figure
> > > > > > out how to remove the anti-spam crap and e-mail me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you'd be kind enough to remove all the assholes off the
internet,
> > > I've be
> > > > > > happy to post without an alias. In the meantime, I use an alias
to
> > > prevent such
> > > > > > assholes from doing stuff like looking my address up in the
phone book
> > > and
> > > > > > ordering, fraudulantly, crap that I have to go out of my way to
> > > return.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Get over it and quit being such a jerk.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, I'm quite fond of British humour. I liked Allo' Allo' and
> > > > "Are you being served?" What is the latest over there currently
> > > > running?
> >
> > --
> > Aaron R. Kulkis
> > Unix Systems Engineer
> > DNRC Minister of all I survey
> > ICQ # 3056642
> >
> > K: Truth in advertising:
> > Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
> > Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
> > Special Interest Sierra Club,
> > Anarchist Members of the ACLU
> > Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
> > The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
> > Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
> >
> > J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> > The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> > also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
> >
> > I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> > challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> > between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> > Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
> >
> > H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> > premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> > you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> > you are lazy, stupid people"
> >
> > G: Knackos...you're a retard.
> >
> > F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> > adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
> >
> > E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> > her behavior improves.
> >
> > D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> > ...despite (C) above.
> >
> > C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
> >
> > B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> > method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> > direction that she doesn't like.
> >
> > A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
>
> --
> V
------------------------------
From: "Neeko Neekosan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: IE again: MS simply =?iso-8859-1?q?doesn=B4t?= get it right
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 03:28:59 -0500
Hi,
Maybe everyone hsould use mozilla. Mozilla 0.8.1 is already very nice.
And it has great embedding features, so people like galeon developers
can write a gtk interface to it. I dont use windows, and I hope microsoft
never ports IE to linux. That would be a travesty. I also hope they never
port MS Office to linux either. I think people need to quit MS cold
turkey. The big corperations should start because they are the smartest
like IBM and HP. They should excise word from the premises, and start
to standardize on mozilla (where possible because of ram constraints and
whatnot.
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Peter Köhlmann"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Again there´s a bug in IE, this time a *real* bad one
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS01-020.asp
>
> This vulnerability could enable an attacker to potentially run a
> program of her choice on the machine of another user. Such a program
> would be capable of taking any action that the user himself could take
> on his machine, including adding, changing or deleting data,
> communicating with web sites, or reformatting the hard drive.
>
> As a general rule, it is probably worth questioning the trustworthiness
> of any e-mail that automatically starts a file download. The best
> action is to simply click the Cancel button in the dialogue.
>
>
> Chaddy boy, Jon, Conrad
> now start to think hard and fast to come up with something That will
> naturally be again something of the kind: "Not really a problem"
>
> Peter
>
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 02:28:20 -0700
Roger Perkins wrote:
>
> Rogerto, most people don't even know what the International is, much less
> have sung it. It belongs to a philosophy long dead.
>
Ok.. you've got my curiosity up... what is it?
This ol' leg is curious...
And I mean OLD!
> Roger
> AIRBORNE!
>
> "Roberto Alsina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Sat, 31 Mar 2001 01:23:35 -0500, Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > >Roger Perkins wrote:
> > >>
> > >> No. Again you illustrate why you aren't graduating from high school
> with
> > >> the rest of your age group. You and Hdlfjlsdloser are nazis. I didn't
> > >> mention communists.
> > >
> > >Since I and Hdlinneberger are both OPPOSED to socialism in any form,
> > >it's pretty hard for us to be Nazis, you moron.
> > >
> > >What part of National SOCIALIST Party do you not understand?
> >
> > The part where the name of the party defines the ideology.
> > I'd say it's reasonable to describe yourself as a nationalist[1].
> > Are you a nazi?
> >
> > [1] As opposed to the internationalist movement. Ever sung "The
> > international"?
> >
> > --
> > Roberto Alsina
--
V
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 10:02:42 +0200
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi) writes:
> On Wed, 04 Apr 2001 04:13:35 GMT, Les Mikesell wrote:
>>
>>restriction claim. More modern environments allow dynamic
>>linking so in many cases there is in fact no copyrighted material
>>distributed - and in some instances dynamic loading where the
>>libraries are not even known prior to execution time. How can
>>you reconcile that with your statement that the code is or isn't
>>derived when it is written?
>
> The dynamic loading one is a very interesting issue indeed, one I hadn't
> considered. It would certainly appear not to be a "derived work" if the
> library isn't required for execution (eg an image viewer that dlopen()s
> various graphics libraries)
In any case, _if_ there's a derivative work created, it's in
the memory of the machine when all the code has been loaded.
No distribution ever takes place, hence licenses that restrict
modification and distribution only don't apply.
--
Stefaan
--
How's it supposed to get the respect of management if you've got just
one guy working on the project? It's much more impressive to have a
battery of programmers slaving away. -- Jeffrey Hobbs (comp.lang.tcl)
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000?
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 02:37:30 -0700
Roy Culley wrote:
>
> In article <9acusg$ie9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> User Bobkeys BSD Bob the old greybeard BSD freak
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > In comp.unix.advocacy Pete Mullins <pmullin@> wrote:
> >> Regardless of how Word users look, they expect the documents that they
> >> receive can be opened and intelligible. Since everyone uses Word, this can
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Where do I find ``Word'' on my UNIX box? I must be missing something?
> >
> > Just curious....
>
> strings file.doc | less
>
> Removes all the formatting crap and leaves you with just the text. I find
> out about this from a guy who posted an article to some newsgroup a while
> ago. He was a Unix contractor and received a word document from the boss
> of the company he was contracting for. The boss obviously used the same
> word document each time. He presumably just deleted the old contents and
> typed away. Unfortunately for him he used fast save or whatever it is
> called. When he ran strings on it he got loads of stuff including employment
> details of employees including salaries etc. Don't you just love
> Microsoft. :-)
LOL!! Now you see why DOD can't certify anything microsoft makes?
When the DOD puts Win2k on the fleet I'll bet the comm is encrypted
between ships and sent to no one else.
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 02:40:18 -0700
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
> Said nuxx in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Tue, 3 Apr 2001 15:32:59 +0800;
> >"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>
> >> The iPaq has two things over Palm, really. One is that it can play
> >> MP3's, the other is that it can speak wireless ethernet (by virtue of a
> >> PC Card slot). Color is a minor thing I think compared to those, and I
> >> don't think that Palm will let them keep the advantage forever.
> >
> >The third is that it has a Citrix ICA client available, rather important for
> >some people,
>
> <*sniff*> <*sniff*>
>
> What's that I smell? It smells like... <*sniff*>...
>
> A monopoly?
>
> >also very nice when combined with wireless ethernet. Why
> >wouldn't Citrix produce a client for the Palm OS if it's technically
> >feasible (screen resolution)? Makes no sense given their support for other
> >platforms (Win32, CE, Unix, Linux, Epoc, OS/2 etc) and also Palms strong
> >market position ... I'm a Palm user myself & this is the only thing it
> >lacks.
>
> Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha. Citrix is an MS sock puppet. There's no *way*
> they're going to even *touch* the Palm.
>
Ok... I've got Citrix in Caldera Linux... what the hell do I do with it?
:-))
> --
> T. Max Devlin
> *** The best way to convince another is
> to state your case moderately and
> accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
--
V
------------------------------
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