Linux-Advocacy Digest #374, Volume #33 Thu, 5 Apr 01 01:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Entry-level *ix positions?? ("Bryant Charleston, MCSE")
Re: Communism (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Baseball ("Matthew Gardiner")
Re: Communism (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised ("Matthew Gardiner")
Re: Communism (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Communism (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Communism (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Communism (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Baseball (".")
Re: Communism (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Something like Install Shield for Linux? ("Kelsey Bjarnason")
Re: Communism (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Communism (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Something like Install Shield for Linux? (David Steinberg)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised ("JS PL")
Re: Communism (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Communism (T. Max Devlin)
Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism) (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised ("JS PL")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Bryant Charleston, MCSE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Entry-level *ix positions??
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 04:30:19 GMT
What kinds of position are there for folks wanting to get into *ix network
administration? Are they the same as w/the Windows OSes (LAN or desktop
support, PC tech, helpdesk, etc.) ???
Now that I have an MCSE (NT4), I'm moving in the Linux (RH7) direction and
I'm wondering how getting started in the *ix field compares to it's Windows
counterpart (w/respect to networking). Any comments would be appreciated.
Thanks!
--
...................................................
Bryant Charleston
A+ Network + MCSE (NT4)
....................................................
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army
Subject: Re: Communism
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 04:30:36 GMT
Said Aaron R. Kulkis in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 04 Apr 2001
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>>
>> Said Aaron R. Kulkis in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 04 Apr 2001
>> >Roger Perkins wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Rogerto, most people don't even know what the International is, much less
>> > ^^^^^^^
>> >
>> >You're losing it, Roger...REALLY REALLY fucking losing it.
>>
>> If you have to shout, Aaron, it must be because you're lying.
>
>Does the word "emphasis" mean anything to you, Max?
Seriously, Aaron, you know I wouldn't steer you wrong. The emphasis
needs to be in your diction, not your typography or volume. People stop
listening REAL quick, unless you use such tricks extremely rarely.
Do you see what I mean? When you have "fucking" in the sentence,
putting anything else in capitals just makes you look like a complete
fucking moron.
Thanks for your time. Hope it helps.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Baseball
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 16:33:08 +1200
For a person too bloody lippy, too fucking smart, I'm surprised you haven't
had your head smashed in. We don't have a ice hockey team as we have no ice
skating rink, and we have no ice skating rink as the Sports Grant Board says
the cost vs. the number who play can't be justified.
Matthew Gardiner
"Doug Graves" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:28:29 +1200, Matthew Gardiner
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >Its rather disappointing that the US doesn't have a good International
> >cricket or rugby union team, for a country with 220 million, I'd expect
> >atleast one. After seeing Canada and the US play, geeze, talk about a
> >pitaful site.
> >
> >Matthew Gardiner
>
>
> It's rather disappointing that New Zealand doesn't field any good ice
hockey
> teams, for a country that a certain loudmouth seems to think is so great,
I'd
> expect at least one. Geeze talk about a bunch of pansies.
>
>
> --
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army
Subject: Re: Communism
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 04:33:18 GMT
Said Roger Perkins in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 4 Apr 2001 21:21:35
>No, Max, it's because he's just a punk. Killfile him and move on. He isn't
>worth your brain cells.
Killfiles are for wimps. You haven't been a shining example of wit or
intellect, I have to point out. Maybe I've just got a mean streak for
guys you yell AIRBORN! in every post. But it's been fun cross-posting
with you. Drop by alt.destroy.microsoft if you have anything better
than Aaron baiting to talk about.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 16:36:51 +1200
Why even write software for Windows? I can promise you that 2 years after
your product has become popular, Microsoft will steal the idea, make its own
version then "bundle" it with Windows.
Matthew Gardiner
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said chrisv in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:17:45 GMT;
> >"JS PL" <jspl@jsplom> wrote:
> >
> >>Sounds like a good idea to put the clause into the licence agreement.
> >>MS definitely has good legal advice, as this clause most likely
eliminates a
> >>ton of frivolus lawsuits. Also, for those not in the know - licence
> >>agreements supercede copyright laws.
> >
> >Filthbag. How do you make your nice living with M$ products?
>
> Yup. That's how. He's a sock puppet.
>
> --
> T. Max Devlin
> *** The best way to convince another is
> to state your case moderately and
> accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 04:46:10 GMT
Said Roger Perkins in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 4 Apr 2001 21:24:49
>No, it's not. There is not requirement for a government to mimic the US in
>order for us to support it. It only needs to be in the national interest.
An interesting argument. Let us say the law does not state this, but
every principle on which the law was based does.
>Conduct between states is not the same as conduct between individuals, which
>any student of international relations will tell you.
Which is why we are at odds on this issue, yes. I'm not concerned at
all with the conduct between states; they are abstractions and therefore
meaningless when it comes to human rights. Human rights do indeed
dictate that all people should enjoy democratic representation. Let
them elect a 'dictator' if that is their desire, but yes, I insist they
have the right to elect a different one, at least at some pre-defined
interval. If any dictator violates human rights, the issue is not the
relationships between states, but between people. The government of the
United States, in deriving its authority from the people of the country,
must ethically oppose, and certainly not physically support, any
dictator or government which flagrantly violates human rights. (Nor
less flagrantly, but I refuse to quantify such things a priori.)
>And the US has the
>right to do whatever it needs to in order to secure our national interests.
If I personally fail to see how supporting a dictator is a matter of
national interest, then I must presume a reasonable man would not, and
that means it doesn't matter whether your statement is correct or not.
Obviously, I think, it must be correct.
But then let's get to brass tacks. Precisely what "national interest"
did supporting Pinochet supposedly serve?
>Sorry if that offends you, but it is the way it works and is supported by
>international law.
You fail to understand why the international law was written to begin
with.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 04:48:38 GMT
Said Aaron R. Kulkis in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 04 Apr 2001
>Roger Perkins wrote:
>>
>> Supporting someone who supports us is different than believing in what they
>> do. Pinchet was a dictator but he was our dictator at the time. And times
>> change.
>
>This line of logic clearly shows that Roger, is, in fact, a "you must not
>kveshten der orders! ve must al volow der orders!" totalitarian scum, who
>is a disgrace to the US Army.
Oh, Christ, Aaron. You used precisely the same argument (advocacy
versus defense of) not more than two weeks ago. Not to mention he
rationalizes the same kind of nationalistic policy as you do.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 04:52:16 GMT
Said Aaron R. Kulkis in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 04 Apr 2001
>Roberto Alsina wrote:
[...]
>> Did they not know they are expected to kill people at war? ;-)
>> But I'll go along. If they didn't know that, they are innocent
>> morons.
>
>What about conscripts and draftees?
Did you already forget, Roberto started the conversation just three or
four posts ago with the point that the military is all-volunteer? Or
were you just trying to pretend otherwise to drag this out.
And here I thought *I* had no life.
>Specifically, conscripts and draftees thrown into an infantry company,
>who find themselves in the middle of a firefight, and being shot at.
>
>Are they assassins?
>Are they morons?
>
>
>The truth of the matter is...soldiers on the battlefield fight
>for nothing other than getting each other out of the mess alive.
All the greater the responsibility of the politicians who put them
there. Which means all the greater the responsibility of the soldiers
who voluntarily follow the politicians and their officers.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 04:53:02 GMT
Said Aaron R. Kulkis in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 04 Apr 2001
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>>
>> Said Joseph T. Adams in alt.destroy.microsoft on 4 Apr 2001 20:20:51
>> >In comp.os.linux.advocacy Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >: Roger Perkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >:>Roberto, all soldiers are willing to kill at their governments command.
>> >:>It's what we do - not aaron, of course, but real soldiers. I realize you
>> >:>are jerking him around but thought I'd put this in.
>> >
>> >: And indeed I consider all soldiers fighting a war their country starts
>> >: to be assassins, in many ways.
>> >
>> >Perhaps, if it was their informed choice.
>> >
>> >More often than not, it wasn't.
>>
>> I can't buy that at all. It allows for purposeful ignorance. If it was
>> their informed choice, then they chose to be assassins; lack of such
>> information only prevents them from knowing they are assassins, it does
>> not prevent them from being assassins. Which is the greater moral
>> conundrum for the soldier is a private choice.
>>
>
>What about conscripts and draftees?
>
>Specifically, conscripts and draftees thrown into an infantry company,
>who find themselves in the middle of a firefight, and being shot at.
>
>Are they assassins?
That seems to bother you, to call them that. Why is that?
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Baseball
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 16:54:28 +1200
> For a person too bloody lippy, too fucking smart, I'm surprised you
haven't
> had your head smashed in. We don't have a ice hockey team as we have no
ice
> skating rink, and we have no ice skating rink as the Sports Grant Board
says
> the cost vs. the number who play can't be justified.
There's no rink, because noone plays shlockey.
Noone plays, because there's no rink.
Hockey's an even more stupid sport than rugby... half the fans go
specifically to watch the violence, and couldn't care less who wins.
Goddamn, if you want violence, let's go reopen the Colosseum and feed some
xians (or even criminals?) to lions. Then at least people will stop
dressing up like pricks to wap a puck around, and the fans'll get their
violence quota in one go instead of having to watch these putzes play hockey
long enough to get worked up for a fight.
Just my opinion of course.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 04:55:41 GMT
Said Roger Perkins in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 4 Apr 2001 21:31:06
>(sigh) I have to explain everything!
>
>Assassin - one who murders a politically important person either for hire or
>from fanatical motives
>Murderer - one who commits the crime of unlawfully killing a person
>especially with malice aforethought
Well, in case you hadn't noticed, Roger, the discussion was one of a
priori consideration. That means "without observation", I'm told. In
other words, we're trying to discover the ethical implications of the
definitions; simply claiming they are separate definitions is
meaningless.
>A soldier kills legally the enemy of his country for the purpose of
>accomplishing political goals that, in the US, are designated by a civilian
>authority.
>
>Don't let you immature emotions get in the way of accuracy. Soldiers are
>killers for a political purpose; not assassins or murderers.
Assassins are killers for a political purpose, too. What exactly is the
difference between a soldier and an assassin?
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: "Kelsey Bjarnason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Something like Install Shield for Linux?
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 04:55:46 GMT
[snips]
"Chad Everett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> OK...tell me the last thing you installed on Windows with InstallShield
> (you know InstallShield...the thing you want to emulate for Linux). Now
> tell me where InstallShield put all the *dll, *.exe, *.inf files for that
> application.
The last thing I installed with an InstallShield-created package was an
application which I happen to be the install developer for. The files went
in as follows:
<InstallDir> - the majority of th EXE, DLL, configuration and other files.
<CommonFiles>\MyCompany - shared DLLs and other resources
<SystemFiles> - system DLLs, if same or newer versions aren't already
installed
<MyDocuments>\MyCompany\MyApp - a few things intended to be edited by the
user
<UserData>\MyCompany\MyApp - per-user config files for this particular
application
<CommonData>\MyCompany\MyApp - per-machine config files
Of course, the specific paths on the above vary; on one machine,
<SystemFiles> lives on F:, on another, it's C:, for example. And
<InstallDir> of course changes based on where the user selects to install
the application.
> Here is some constructive criticism for you. There are many parts of your
> suggestion/request that are just plain bad ideas. There are GUI
interfaces
> for RPM and there is room for improvement in this area, sure. But you
> can certainly get a lot more information out of rpm and *.rpm files than
> you can out of ANY installshield install package.
Really? Hmm. As far as I can tell, the _only_ things I can't get out of
the InstallShield-created packages I'm developing are custom scripts and
install-time custom DLLs, and I'm not sure I can't get those. I can
certainly get the entire list of dependencies, conditional installation
information, list of files, what components they belong to, what features
the components belong to, parent features of features, default installation
locations, customized UI settings, the entire sequence of operations for
each of Administration Execute, Administration UI, Advertise Execute,
Advertise UI, Install Execute and Install UI, plus little things such as
what other applications are to be detected and/or upgraded by this one, what
files and settings, if any, it looks for, the list of configuration file
modifications it creates, what languages it supports, what language it
defaults to, the install level for each feature, whether features or
components have particular paths to install to, whether they can be run from
source, and, depending on the developer, a list of alternative sites to
retrieve files from during installs, a help-desk phone number, links to the
company website, the product info website, and the product update page, and
so on and so forth. And, of course, MS provides, on the Win2K server CDs at
least, tools that administrators can use to customize these packages by
adding or removing files or settings to meet their needs.
> So how much time have you spent rebooting your Windows machine after
installing
> a new program with InstallShield on Windows?
This week, I've installed, uninstalled, reinstalled and upgraded several
applications, repeatedly (I am, after all, an install developer) and haven't
rebooted once. Nor been prompted to. Nor seen any need to.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 04:56:52 GMT
Said Roger Perkins in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 4 Apr 2001 21:26:40
>I applaud your morals, but I'll stick with my cynicism.
Well said.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 04:57:46 GMT
Said Kish in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 4 Apr 2001 20:41:38 -0700;
>
>"Roger Perkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:iCRy6.265$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> A quote:
>>
>> We sleep safe in our beds an night because rough me stand ready to visit
>> violence on those who would do us harm. Orwell.
>
><<And I am not sure if it's correct, but it is right.>>
>
>Huh?
He's not sure if it is accurate to the original, but it is consistent
with the sentiment.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Steinberg)
Subject: Re: Something like Install Shield for Linux?
Date: 5 Apr 2001 04:57:57 GMT
Gary Hallock ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: InstallShield is available for Linux
And getting all the use that it deserves. Does anyone really believe that
InstallShield actually does a better job than dpkg + apt-get or even rpm?
--
David Steinberg -o)
Computer Engineering Undergrad, UBC / \
[EMAIL PROTECTED] _\_v
------------------------------
From: "JS PL" <jspl@jsplom>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 01:00:17 -0400
"Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9agrjg$185$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> That was a hypothetic senario I put accross, hence the cheap remark
> "Could'a, would'a, should'a" has absolutely no relevance to this
discussion.
Just as your hypothetical scenario has no relevance. Replacing the success
of MS for any other name wouldn't have changed much. There would still be
jealousy and accusations against the accepted OS standard, whatever that
might be.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 05:00:02 GMT
Said T. Max Devlin in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 04 Apr 2001 22:24:08
>I would humbly disagree with you. Blind and ignorant, we create our
>prejudices from whole cloth; they do not come automatically.
>"Ignorance" fits your comments much better than "blind prejudice", which
>must, I think, by its formulation (prejudice is by nature not seeing
>[ignoring individual truth for a blanket truth]) be a rather studious
>ignorance, like Aaron illustrates, rather than the simple "I need a
>default value" kind of "pre-judging" that you describe.
Holy hell. Did I write that?
That's what I get for reading philosophy. Somebody put me out of my
misery!
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 05:01:59 GMT
Said Aaron R. Kulkis in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 04 Apr 2001
[396 lines snipped]
>Max, you should know better than to argue with a woman.
>
>Everybody knows they don't think like people.
Christ, you're stupid.
[50 line sig snipped]
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 05:03:48 GMT
Said Aaron R. Kulkis in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 04 Apr 2001
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
[...]
>> >>There's a word for military personell who refuse to obey Congress's
>> >>decision to go to war: DESERTER.
>>
>> Actually, if you desert in time of war, you're a traitor, aren't you?
>
>No..you can be a deserter without being a traitor...even though both
>are capital offences.
>
>> The only time desertion is punishable by death, at least.
>
>true.
[*SLAP*] [*SLAP*] [*SLAP*]
Putz.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: "JS PL" <jspl@jsplom>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 01:08:05 -0400
"Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9agsmc$1uk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Why even write software for Windows? I can promise you that 2 years after
> your product has become popular, Microsoft will steal the idea, make its
own
> version then "bundle" it with Windows.
>
> Matthew Gardiner
Yeah, that's why you get SO MUCH extra software with windows. About all I
see that comes with it are a few 20 year old games, a ten client limit
webserver, what else....oh.. there's the ultra powerfull PAINT, some trial
versions of other MS games, AOL maybe... Yeah they're just putting WAY too
much into Windows these days.
Windows is about the "least" bundled OS I've ever owned.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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