Linux-Advocacy Digest #412, Volume #33 Fri, 6 Apr 01 05:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Q:Windows NT scripting? (".")
Re: Baseball (".")
Re: Java (was Re: 696 Native MacOSX Apps So Far -) (GreyCloud)
Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day. (silverback)
Re: Baseball (Anonymous)
Re: Hey, JS PL was Re: Microsoft abandoning USB? (GreyCloud)
lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message (Anonymous)
Re: Q:Windows NT scripting? (667 Neighbor of the Beast)
Re: "The Linux Desktop", by T. Max Devlin (PhOeNiX)
Re: 696 Native MacOSX Apps So Far - (PhOeNiX)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: How funny. (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: 696 Native MacOSX Apps So Far - (Matthew Gardiner)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Q:Windows NT scripting?
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 18:11:49 +1200
> >> > My question is, that why on EARTH does the GUI have
> >> > to be integrated to the OS itself?
>
> It does if you want to communicate with the rest of the world.
The GUI has nothing to do with communicating with the rest of the world. It
has only one communication avenue, and that's between you and your computer.
------------------------------
From: "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Baseball
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 18:14:26 +1200
> > To someone who knows how to use it, Unix is easy to use. To someone who
> > does not know how to use it, Windows is hard to use.
>
> which one is easier to learn to use?
It depends on your ability to learn, and the particular setup.
I could set up an X box with the blackbox window manager, and I could have
the secretary on the front desk start the two apps she uses with the right
click menu. Blackbox has absolutely no flashy shit to get in your way, so
it's extremely simple and straightforward.
It does take a knowledgeable user, or a clever distribution, to get it set
up right though. No different to windows.
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Java (was Re: 696 Native MacOSX Apps So Far -)
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 00:19:22 -0700
Fred K Ollinger wrote:
>
> Donn Miller ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> : pip wrote:
>
> : > It is unfortunate that people still think that Java is only any use in
> : > applets. In fact I would argue that Java is not very useful for general
> : > applet programming for the 'net anymore.
> : > Donn, luckily Java is VERY useful as a general programming language that
> : > _does not need a browser_ but can be run as an application. Also it is
> : > very useful for server side programming using Servelts
> : > http://www.linux.com/sysadmin/newsitem.phtml?sid=1&aid=11992 (this is
> : > very useful if you don't get on well with PERL)
>
> : Yeah, maybe you've got a point there. Java treats objects a little
> : differently than C++, and it also removed some of the "dangerous" and
> : insecure aspects of C++, such as working with pointers at the lowest
> : level. Also, I believe that Java is very structured in terms of
> : objects, starting from "java" and "java.lang" all the way up. For
> : example, Java automatically (somehow) recognizes a string literal as a
> : string object, so you don't have to do something like
>
> I liked some of java's OO ideas a lot. I did hear, though that Sun changes
> it's api a bit. This scares me b/c if this is the case then my code may break.
> This doesn't seem to be
> 'write once, run many' in the long haul. Can someone reassure me about this
> and maybe tell me if there's a way to avoid this trouble?
>
> : string s1("A string object."); // C++ version
> : string s2 = string("String object."); // Alternate C++ version
>
> I always wondered how to do that. Thanks for the tip. (I'm new to programming).
>
> Fred
You'll get warnings, when compiling older source, that a certain API is
deprecated... meaning don't plan on its use in the future or its
existence.
However, it is safe in that Sun provides the updated version of Java on
their website and is downloadable for free. It usually takes them more
time between releases anyway.
Things are always changing so you may as well hop in.
--
V
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (silverback)
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day.
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 04:24:18 GMT
On Fri, 06 Apr 2001 03:24:29 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael
Ejercito) wrote:
>On Thu, 05 Apr 2001 16:18:29 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>(silverback) wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 05 Apr 2001 08:24:28 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>The UAW will go to court to prevent the non-UAW person from working
>>>in that capacity at the plant.
>>>
>>
>>you damn right let the scabs go work elsewhere
>>
> I was a scab, during the AFTRA strike in Los Angeles. And I got
>paid over eighty dollars for a day's work.
wow the dumb fucking scab got $10/hr
>
>
> Michael
***********************************************
GDY Weasel
emailers remove the spam buster
For those seeking enlightenment visit the White Rose at
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/whiterose.htm
*********************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 00:23:04 -0600
From: Anonymous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Baseball
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,soc.singles
aaron wrote:
> Anonymous wrote:
> >
> > aaron wrote:
> > > Anonymous wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > Maybe Microsoft will go the full monty and deliver a stable OS for once?
> > > >
> > > > why don't you do something to make unix as easy to use as windows while
> > > > retaining the former's stability and put microsoft out of business?
> > >
> > > It's been so for well over a DECADE, jackie.
> >
> > so you're saying that in 1991 there was a unix system as easy to use as
> > windows is today?
> > riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight....
>
> Sun Windows.....for more user-friendly than Mafia$oft windows is today.
how much did it cost?
jackie 'anakin' tokeman
men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth - more than ruin,
more even than death
- bertrand russell
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Hey, JS PL was Re: Microsoft abandoning USB?
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 00:41:30 -0700
667 Neighbor of the Beast wrote:
>
> Alan wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 4 Apr 2001 23:57:34 -0400, "JS PL" <jspl@jsplom> wrote:
> > > >
> > >I haven't seen that happening since early in the existence of IE4. IE is now
> > >built in to Windows, why does an ISP have to distribute it these days?
>
> Listen to the Windoze liars. Lie, lie, lie, lie. All for their crook
> buddies, for whom they toe the party line.
>
> During the trial it was made clear that MS frequently offered nearly
> free server software for ISP's if they promised to get at least 75% of
> their customers to use IE.
>
> The local idiots in my town did just that. They tore out a great
> Novell setup and put in NT, IIS, Exchange, the whole mess. They
> distribute I.E. and only I.E. on their Internet CD and actively
> discourage the use of Netscape. If you call up the help desk and tell
> them you use Netscape they get mad. They say, "We encourage all of
> our customers to use IE." All of their install disks come with only
> I.E. on them, whether for the PC or the Mac.
>
> By the way, their Internet service sucks. I was getting kicked off
> 4-5 times a day, the WWW and Usenet were real slow, and the news
> server and mailserver went down a lot. Netscape was crashing and
> getting corrupted all the time. Lo and behold I got myself a real ISP
> with Solaris and Netscape Enterprise. I now get kicked off anywhere
> from once a day to 2-3 X a week. Usenet and mail loads real fast.
> The Internet is like lightning. And Netscape's crashes and
> corruptions have been significantly reduced...
Part of those phantom disconnects are caused by the local PBX. (telco)
> --
> Bob
> Being flamed? Don't know why? Take the Flame Questionnaire(TM)
> today!
> Why do you think you are being flamed?
> [ ] You crossposted
> [ ] You continued a long, stupid thread
> [ ] You started an off-topic thread
> [ ] You posted something totally uninteresting
> [ ] People don't like your tone of voice
> [ ] Your stupidity is astounding
> [ ] You suck
> [ ] Other (describe)
--
V
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 00:57:34 -0600
From: Anonymous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,soc.singles
"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> eeped:
> > >so you're saying that in 1991 there was a unix system as easy to use as
> > >windows is today?
> >
> > To someone who knows how to use it, Unix is easy to use. To someone who
> > does not know how to use it, Windows is hard to use.
>
> But Max, I have spent my entire two years with a computer using windows, and
> I have also spent five seconds watching linux boot. I know windows is easy,
> because I can use it, and I am a fucking peasant. Linux is hard, because it
> sometimes comes up in text mode, and I have to think about what I'm doing.
thus:
desktop market share
windows 92%
linux 1%
mac 4%
ha haaaw!
jackie 'anakin' tokeman
p.s.
server market share
windows 41%
linux 27%
netware 17%
unix 14%
other 2%
windows rules on servers too?!?
who woulda thunk it...
men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth - more than ruin,
more even than death
- bertrand russell
------------------------------
From: 667 Neighbor of the Beast <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Q:Windows NT scripting?
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 23:58:00 -0700
LShaping wrote:
>
> >> Jarko Vihriala wrote:
>
> >> > My question is, that why on EARTH does the GUI have
> >> > to be integrated to the OS itself?
>
> It does if you want to communicate with the rest of the world.
He means in the kernel, L. Not in the OS. For instance, in OS/2 and
Unix the GUI is outside of the kernel; in NT it is not.
> >> > but if
> >> > someone would really want to customise the system,
> >> > and operate on the command line (even with remote
> >> > sessions) they could do that.
>
> And then there is computer
> aided design, which is an incredibly powerful part of modern
> computing, which requires GUI functions. So Jarko, I guess that is
> "life in the big city".
You are misunderstanding the guy, L. He is not complaining about the
OS having a GUI. He is complaining about the fact that it is in the
*kernel*, where it should not be.
>
> >> > Personally, I have created a set of scripts to allow
> >> > me to use the NT - when I use it - from the command line,
> >> > but the GUI is still there, eating my resources
> >> > and such.
>
> Sounds like Jarko's personal problem.
Not really L. In Unix and I think in OS/2, you can operate from the
command-line and the GUI is out of the picture. This is a perfectly
valid complaint about NT.
>
> >> > Also, if the GUI was not integrated with the
> >> > kernel, it would not crash the system if some confict
> >> > will occur.
> Yes, and if we all ride bicycles, we wont have head on collisions at
> very high speeds. Perhaps Jarko should consider moving to China.
You are missing it again. In Unix and OS/2, the GUI is outside of the
kernel, so if the GUI crashes, you can get operate the OS from the
command-line. IOW, the OS is still alive. In NT, the GUI can take
down the whole OS!
--
Bob
Being flamed? Don't know why? Take the Flame Questionnaire(TM)
today!
Why do you think you are being flamed?
[ ] You crossposted
[ ] You continued a long, stupid thread
[ ] You started an off-topic thread
[ ] You posted something totally uninteresting
[ ] People don't like your tone of voice
[ ] Your stupidity is astounding
[ ] You suck
[ ] Other (describe)
------------------------------
From: PhOeNiX <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: "The Linux Desktop", by T. Max Devlin
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 07:15:59 GMT
On Thu, 05 Apr 2001 22:57:29 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (webgiant )
wrote:
>I've never seen the appeal of the Debian package manager. Any Linux
>distro--such as Debian--which expands to fill your hard drive like
>Windoze does needs a serious rewrite of its code. Expanding to fill
>all available space is sloppy coding, not a "feature" (no matter how
>Redmond likes to insist otherwise!)
Then you have never used it, and your statements are ridiculous and
asinine. It doesn't "fill all available space" by any means. I've
done upgrades that were around 100 megs of packages which actually
freed space on several occasions. It is the best package management I
have used for any OS period. Compared to rpm, dpkg/apt are heaven.
I'd take FreeBSD's system over rpm any day. pkg_add or make install
clean from ports..
>And if you happen to have a fairly fast (40kbps actual speed or
>greater; I don't care what the brochure says) Internet connection and
>a CD-burner or access to one, you can download fairly current ISO
>images from www.linuxiso.org and burn your own distro.
LOL, and reinstall (or get a fscked upgrade) your OS every 3
months...great idea.
apt-get update
apt-get dist-upgrade
Done.
phoenix
_______________________________________________________
In the year 2001, a movie staring Steven Seagal was the
number one movie in America. The final sign of the
apocolypse has come...
------------------------------
From: PhOeNiX <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 696 Native MacOSX Apps So Far -
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 07:18:57 GMT
On Thu, 5 Apr 2001 23:16:16 +1200, "Matthew Gardiner"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Considering the only decent Office Suite (Office 2001) is not even
>Carbonised, its not even worth moving. If I was a new Mac owner, I would
>wait until Autumn (US Date), until the carbonised version of Microsoft
>Office has been released, however, if StarOffice (through and act of god or
>something) releases OpenOffice before the carbonised version of MS Office is
>released, that maybe the boost Apple was looking for.
>
>Matthew Gardiner
Or when I could actually burn cds or watch dvds without booting to
OS9...
phoenix
_______________________________________________________
In the year 2001, a movie staring Steven Seagal was the
number one movie in America. The final sign of the
apocolypse has come...
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 19:54:56 +1200
Just as a follow up, it allows smaller parties, hence, a greater
representation of the commmunity, compared to the make up of the house of
commons in the US which only has two parties and very few idependents, which,
off course, the real representation of the average Joe Bloggs is never
achieved.
Matthew Gardiner
Craig Kelley wrote:
> "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > <snype>
> > > That would be horrible. First of all, it gives the biggest parties
> > > more money to maintain their strangle-hold on politics. Secondly, it
> > > wouldn't address the super-soft money that is silently spent by the
> > > mass media on their candidates of choice. Thirdly, it abridges our
> > > freedom of speech by masking what we can say (our supreme court has
> > > ruled that money is speech).
> >
> > Well, for example, we have 7 parties in parliament (National, Act,
> > United, New Zealand First, Greens, Alliance, Labour), the current
> > government is made up of an Alliance, Labour and Greens (same type
> > of party as the one in Germany) coalition. The Greens at the last
> > election came from no-where to holding the balance of power in the
> > coalition. Also, another reason why these parties do get in is
> > because there is a +90% turnout on election night, which also helps
> > small parties to get into parliament. A MMP system would be a
> > viable alternative to the system currently being used in the US.
>
> That's a separate issue. I like the coalitions of a parliment, and I
> wouldn't be against having it in the US.
>
> > As for the president, the electral college has to be the biggest
> > co-jobs since Microsoft. Presidents should be voted in on the
> > number of votes they receive, thus, instead of a small, hicks-ville
> > state holding the country to ransom.
>
> Some of us hicks moved to our rural areas because we were disgusted
> with the city (in my case, Los Angeles). It all depends on where you
> live and how much you (think you) know. Take a look at this:
>
> http://inconnu.isu.edu/~ink/electmap.jpg
>
> Quite a bit of red in that graph. The elecotral college gives a very
> slight advantage to states over popular votes, but I don't believe it
> is unjustified.
>
> --
> It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a slot on your ATX videoboard
> Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How funny.
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 19:57:28 +1200
In the UK, Sir Tux of London
Matthew Gardiner
"Bobby D. Bryant" wrote:
> I'm downloading a new kernel, so I looked at kernel.org's mirror list.
> They have the list broken down by country, and a very exhaustive list it
> is. I was particularly surprised to see that the list includes the Holy
> See (i.e., the Vatican).
>
> I wonder whether they'll be coming out with their own distro? "St.
> Penguin Linux" or something.
>
> Other sites could yield interesting distros too:
>
> Antartica: "True Penguin Linux"
> Pitcairn Island: "Mutiny Linux"
> Saint Helena: "Napoleonic Legacy Linux"
> Monaco: "Gran Prix Linux"
> Isle of Man: "Manux"
> Chad: "Troll Linux"
>
> And for about 1/3 of the states listed, "'Where the Heck is That' Linux"
>
> Bobby Bryant
> Austin, Texas
>
> p.s. - Many of the small nations' mirrors are actually remote sites in
> more familiar countries, but it's pretty funny all the same.
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 696 Native MacOSX Apps So Far -
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 20:37:20 +1200
True, true. Try running a classic application on the dalmation iMac, wow! what
a slug. I have seen Microsoft programmers move faster to fix a bug than the
classic environment running on the iMac. Also, why should I spend even more
money on another version of Office just so I can get it to run on MacOS X at a
decent level of speed? Why has it taken so bloody long to carbonise Office 2000
considering they have had almost 2 years to do it in, also, that taken in
account that Office uses hardly any obsolete Classic API calls, so I can't see
why it has taken this long.
Matthew Gardiner
PhOeNiX wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Apr 2001 23:16:16 +1200, "Matthew Gardiner"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Considering the only decent Office Suite (Office 2001) is not even
> >Carbonised, its not even worth moving. If I was a new Mac owner, I would
> >wait until Autumn (US Date), until the carbonised version of Microsoft
> >Office has been released, however, if StarOffice (through and act of god or
> >something) releases OpenOffice before the carbonised version of MS Office is
> >released, that maybe the boost Apple was looking for.
> >
> >Matthew Gardiner
>
> Or when I could actually burn cds or watch dvds without booting to
> OS9...
>
> phoenix
> _______________________________________________________
> In the year 2001, a movie staring Steven Seagal was the
> number one movie in America. The final sign of the
> apocolypse has come...
------------------------------
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