Linux-Advocacy Digest #512, Volume #33 Wed, 11 Apr 01 14:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day. ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor (Goldhammer)
Re: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Why Bill Gates Is Ramming His Thick Meaty Cock Up Torvald's Weak Mincing Ass
(The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day.
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:35:28 -0400
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, silverback
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Wed, 11 Apr 2001 04:10:11 GMT
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >On Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:22:56 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sam A. Kersh)
> >wrote:
> >
> >>Mathew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Goldhammer wrote:
> >>>> >
> >>>> > On Mon, 09 Apr 2001 13:33:15 -0400,
> >>>> > Rob Robertson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>>> >
> >>>> > > Right. Fascism is characterized by the *state-directed* control of
> >>>> > >the economy,
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Hmm. Sounds like communism.
> >>>>
> >>>> Precisely.
> >>>>
> >>>> Communism and Fascism are merely different sides of the same coin.
> >>>
> >>>And Capitalism has state-directed controls on the economy too.
> >>
> >>True capitalism is a laize faire proposition. And the prime rule is
> >>buyer beware.
> >
> >and a totally unworkable system
>
> I will agree on this point, 100% pure capitalism (with no regulation)
anarchic capitalism, yes.
Libertarian capitalism, no.
> would lead to a very foul system indeed, as the top cats start
> cutting sweetheart deals to shut out the lower echelons of society;
> the lower echelons will in turn shut out even lower echelons, and
> the poor will end up dead (pick your poison: air pollution, water
Which is exactly what DOES happen in Communism.
> pollution, ground soil pollution, radioactivity, drive-by shootings
> by caring individuals using Tommy guns, ... :-) ). Ultimately, one
> will get a set of communes, each one a separate business, cartel, or trust.
>
> This is not to say communism is better; it leads to its own problems.
> The ideal system is a mix. A gasoline engine (standard 4-stroke,
> 2-stroke, jet turbine, whatever) cannot run on pure fuel or pure air;
> the trick is to adjust the mix in the combustion chamber for
> optimum throughput.
>
> Similarly with economies. The trick is to get the mix right.
> (It's actually a lot more complicated than that, with issues such
> as overshoot and ringing being thrown into the mix -- an overreactive
> regulatory system can "flood the engine", or lead into an oscillatory
> motion of the economy as the gain of the "amplifier" is too high,
> depending on which metaphor one desires. :-) I am of the opinion
> that the Fed needs to be more reactive and more precise, although
> I'm not sure how the Fed can accomplish same without a lot more
> economic data, reported more frequently that it is now.)
>
> [.sigsnip]
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
> EAC code #191 5d:17h:22m actually running Linux.
> I'm here, you're there, and that's pretty much it.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Goldhammer)
Crossposted-To:
alt.comp.shareware.programmer,comp.editors,comp.lang.java.help,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.softwaretools,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:42:22 GMT
On Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:06:06 GMT, Randall Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Well, I spend much larger amounts on hardware and on other
>software development tools. Then there is what I get paid for
>doing stuff. I see that people don't want to pay a lot
>for an editor.
If vi cost money, I'd buy a license.
>But at the same time, editing is the one
>thing that many of us spend the bulk of our time doing.
Right. Which is why so many of us prefer vi. When you
have to sit there editing stuff for hours and hours,
you eventually get tired of playing chords (Emacs) or
using a mouse (GUI-based editors like UltraEdit, TextPad).
You start wishing you just had an editor that would let you
do things as efficiently as possible, with the least amount
of carpal-tunnel abuse.
As for features like syntax highlighting -- sure, gvim
supports this very well. But say you're editing 20,000-line
Fortran 77 codes, day after day, month after month. The
syntax highlighting gets burned into your retina; it
becomes unbearable. I have to leave it turned off. This
feature just isn't that useful to me anymore, in any editor.
Neither are any features having to do with mouseclicks.
>Some people want to be totally dedicated to Open Source
>only and that is fine. But for those of us that are willing
>to buy commercial dev tools I really don't think $300 is
>too much for the most important tool we use.
It's not an ideological issue. People like vi because
it's a great editor. Who the hell wants to edit text
with a GUI editor? It's plain nuts. Think about it.
It's like using a GUI to drive your car.
--
Don't think you are. Know you are.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:45:03 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Chad Everett
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on 10 Apr 2001 23:06:35 -0500
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>On Wed, 11 Apr 2001 03:38:35 GMT, Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>"Chad Everett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>> On Tue, 10 Apr 2001 01:37:58 GMT, Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>wrote:
>>> >
>>> >"David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>> >news:9arpf3$l7p$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>> >>
>>> >> Goldhammer wrote in message ...
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >AFAIK, ext2 supports files up to 16Eb. The reason
>>> >> >why files >2 Gb on 32-bit machines require the
>>> >> >'bigfile' patch has to do with the size of int
>>> >> >on a 32-bit machine. But linux on an Alpha doesn't
>>> >> >have any 2 Gb "limit". Therefore, the 2 Gb "limit"
>>> >> >cannot be considered limitation of Linux. It simply
>>> >> >isn't, unless one argues that Linux on an Alpha isn't
>>> >> >really Linux.
>>> >> >
>>> >
>>> >It _IS_ a limitation in Linux, because few other OSes have
>>> >this problem on 32-bit architectures.
>>> >
>>>
>>> It is _NOT_ a limitation in Linux. The linux 2.4.x kernel handles files
>>
>>Because it _WAS_ a limitation, they merely fixed it, FINALLY. NT could
>>support >2GB files years ago.
>>
>
>First you say it _IS_ and when called on it, now you say it _WAS_
>
>NT used to have a 2GB file limit: doesn't anymore
>
>Linux used to have a 2GB file limit: doesn't anymore.
I'm not sure if NT ever had a 2GB file limit; Borland C++ version 4.51
(which is the one I happen to have) has SetFilePointer,
which has the API:
WINBASEPAI DWORD WINAPI SetFilePointer(
HANDLE hFile,
LONG lDistanceToMove
PLONG lpDistanceToMoveHigh,
DWORD dwMoveMethod
);
A bit bodgy in light of the 'long*' (PLONG) pointer (typical Windows
extensionism, IMO), but a perfectly workable 64-bit seek. The file is
'winbase.h' in bc45\include and is dated April 21, 1995, although it
might be older than that because I like to copy files around. :-)
I forget when NT 3.51 or NT 4 came out, and there is the possibility
that parts of this API call were unsupported (e.g., the pointer
might have been ignored totally).
I'm not at home or I'd fire up my Borland install disc to be sure
of the date.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
EAC code #191 5d:20h:32m actually running Linux.
Microsoft. When it absolutely, positively has to act weird.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.shareware.programmer,comp.editors,comp.lang.java.help,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.softwaretools,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:42:43 -0400
Phillip Lord wrote:
>
> >>>>> "Aaron" == Aaron R Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Aaron> Gamma wrote:
> >> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Phillip Lord wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>> "Aaron" == Aaron R Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >> >> >> Aaron> Which means that as soon as your on a new machine,
> >> your stuck >> Aaron> editing WITHOUT your config file.... >> >>
> >> Aaron> UGH. >> >> This is why God invented NFS mounted home
> >> spaces. >> >> Phil > >And if your behind a corporate firewall
> >> which doesn't permit >NFS connections through it....
> >>
> >> That's why God invented 3.5" floppies.
> >>
> >> And if you're behind a corporate firewall WITH security
> >> restrictions that prohibit bringing in software from the
> >> Internet...
> >>
> >> That's why God invented other jobs. :-)
>
> Aaron> When you're a consultant, and you're on a customer sight for
> Aaron> just a short period of time...let's see...first you gotta
> Aaron> bring emacs with you, in case they don't have it, AND have
> Aaron> your .emacrc...
>
> Aaron> Oh, and make sure you remove it before you leave, because if
> Aaron> the people in charge of the site wanted emacs on the system,
> Aaron> it would already be there.
>
> Aaron> Bleah.
>
> Aaron> It's just simpler to use VI and be done with it.
>
> I used to carry around a copy of the marvellous
> programmers file editor on floppy. It was great. In the same way
> believe it or not I do now how to use VI. Of course I am not as
> competent as a real VI user, but I'm okay. But I can't use VI to read
> my email, or send news messages, so I use emacs most of the time. And
> I can also use emacs without any of my customisations. I just prefer
> to have them.
>
> If I moved around from machine to machine a lot (which
> I don't) then I would stick emacs with all my configuration and extra
> packages and anything else that I wanted onto a CD-ROM, and run it off
> there.
In that case, you would have a lot of clients pissed at you.
>
> I have no problems with VI. Its a great editor. It just not do
> all the things that I want. Emacs does. And if it does, I can make it
> do so.
>
> Phil
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.shareware.programmer,comp.editors,comp.lang.java.help,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.softwaretools,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:43:23 -0400
Phillip Lord wrote:
>
> >>>>> "Aaron" == Aaron R Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Aaron> Phillip Lord wrote:
> >> >>>>> "Aaron" == Aaron R Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >>
> Aaron> Which means that as soon as your on a new machine, your stuck
> Aaron> editing WITHOUT your config file....
> >>
> Aaron> UGH.
> >> This is why God invented NFS mounted home spaces.
> >>
> >> Phil
>
> Aaron> And if your behind a corporate firewall which doesn't permit
> Aaron> NFS connections through it....
>
> Fortunately god also invented floppy disks.
>
emacs that fits on a floppy. you're kidding, right?
> Phil
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: soc.singles,alt.linux,alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.hackers.malicious
Subject: Re: Why Bill Gates Is Ramming His Thick Meaty Cock Up Torvald's Weak Mincing
Ass
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:49:59 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Anonymous
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:03:34 -0600
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>t. max dumbass eeped:
>>Said Anonymous in alt.destroy.microsoft on Fri, 6 Apr 2001 03:19:52
>> [...]
>>>microsoft's products have always been less stable than unix. always.
>>>yet they are still gaining market share.
>>>wazzapwiddat c?
>>
>>Monopolization. Per-processor licensing, predatory development,
>>predatory pricing, anti-competitive FUD. The works.
>
>so what you're saying is gates crushed unix by sheer force of evil?
Gates didn't crush Unix. We did.
All of the buyers of Microsoft products, either directly or indirectly,
established it as the dominant desktop player because of its convenience
with interfacing with other products -- some of them running on DOS.
Also, its ubiquity, helped in part by Microsoft's somewhat predatory
licensing practices ("CPU tax") and the way it just looks so gorgeous
and colorful on a monitor that a middleware/purchasing manager just
has to go right out and buy it.... :-)
I will also note that Win3.1 was an excellent product, highly
sophisticated and top-of-the-mark, back then. (Desqview/X tried
very hard, though -- but I forget who came first.)
But we, the buying public, not knowing better (until now, admittedly)
have to take at least a small part of the blame; we could have all
rushed out and bought Amigas instead, for example -- had we known.
Hopefully, we now know better. But I have my doubts.
[rest snipped]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random hope here
EAC code #191 5d:21h:37m actually running Linux.
You were expecting something relevant down here?
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.shareware.programmer,comp.editors,comp.lang.java.help,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.softwaretools,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:46:10 -0400
Roberto Selbach Teixeira wrote:
>
> On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Roberto Selbach Teixeira wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> > Randall Parker wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, 10 Apr 2001 06:00:03 GMT esteemed JLI did'st hold forth
> >> >> thusly:
> >> >> > For simple editing work vi is properly the best tool on UNIX.
> >> >>
> >> >> Does it do color syntax coding or language and library sensitive
> >> >> code expansion?
> >> >>
> >> >> Its been a long time since I used vi and it was the second
> >> >> editor I learned to use. But I think perhaps I should learn it
> >> >> again to help when administering Linux and Unix boxes.
> >> >
> >> > vim does.
> >> >
> >>
> >> And it sucks too! The obvious choice is (and always will be) FSF
> >> Emacs!
> >
> > Emacs is a bloated hog...and it's not universally installed...and
> > where it is installed, which version is it? Is it *really* emacs,
> > or is it jove? or temacs? or ????
> >
>
> Bloated hog? As someone mentioned once, Emacs takes what today's
> equivalent to what? 10 cents of disk space? For these 10 cents you get
> a full featured editor (that's what the guy asked about, wasn't it?),
> a web browser, email client, usenet client, ftp, scheduler, calculator
> and a lot (*A LOT*) more.
That's not the point. It's a filesystem management issue.
If you go dumping software onto a client's system, eating up diskspace
for an editor that nobody uses, the client is going to be pissed off.
Thus, use of emacs is NOT advisable for on-site consulting.
> >
> > If you do work on a LOT of systems, especially for a large number
> > of companies, on site...then trying to survive solely on emacs will
> > kill you.
> >
> > vi is universally installed, and unchanging.
>
> Windows is universally installed and unchanging. This means it is the
> best OS available, right? NOO.
>
apples and oranges.
> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> Roberto Selbach Teixeira [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Conectiva, S.A. http://www.conectiva.com
> >>
> >> "You don't *learn* emacs, you learn *from* emacs."
> >> -- Alain Picard
> >
> >
>
> --
> Roberto Selbach Teixeira [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Conectiva, S.A. http://www.conectiva.com
>
> May Emacs enlighten the lives of more and more unbelievers.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.shareware.programmer,comp.editors,comp.lang.java.help,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.softwaretools,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:50:08 -0400
Phillip Lord wrote:
>
> >>>>> "Gamma" == Gamma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Gamma> 10 cents of disk space, sure, but 8 bucks worth of memory
>
> 8M of memory. Good gods the expense.
>
> Gamma> and about 15-50 cents of startup time per startup! Which is
> Gamma> fine if you're set up to where you can run it once when you
> Gamma> log in in the morning and then leave it up all day,
> Gamma> granted...
>
> Gamma> And this is just for bare emacs; multiply all numbers by
> Gamma> around 8 or so for xemacs with news, ftp, fried okra, mashed
> Gamma> potatoes, etc...
>
> You want the additional functionality you have to pay
> something for it. Given that the VI user probably also has a news
> reader, an ftp client, a mail reader, uses CVS an so on as well, then
> I am not sure that the memory usage is that significant.
Maybe on academic machines.
Most corporate Unix machines NEVER have a new reader on them.
Many don't even have CVS, as they aren't used for development.
>
> Gamma> And 120 more bucks worth of install time if you're in a
> Gamma> consultant position and your client doesn't have emacs
> Gamma> installed, or has the wrong version.
>
> It takes me about 2 minutes to install a new emacs on
> my local system. Thats because I have taken care to write my emacs
> customisations (which are pretty extensive) well.
>
> If you move machines a lot then the advantage of VI clearly
> gets greater. In the same way people who swap machines rarely
> customise their desktop, or even their shell.
Clue for the clueless: consulting is where the BIG money is.
That means working on-site at up to half-a dozen different
client's locations within a week.
>
> Or alternatively you get organised and take around what you
> need on a cd-rom, or put it somewhere that you can get hold of it
> easily.
And fuck up your client's storage management.
No thanks, I like being invited back for repeat business.
>
> The problems are not large, although you do need to be more
> organised. The flip side of it of course is that I can work on an IRIX
> box, a Sun box, linux, bsd or even windows. Once I have set up my
> emacs, I get the same interface and all the functionality that I
> require. I can read news/mail, I can browse the file system, and so
> on. From within emacs you can do anything. With VI of course you have
> to use what the OS provides you with, which is different.
>
> Emacs and VI are not directly comparable, because they do
> such different things.
>
> Gamma> Bare vi has virtually zero install cost, since it's
> Gamma> everywhere. Gvim will cost less in install time than a
> Gamma> similar xemacs counterpart. Starts up instantaneously (even
> Gamma> gvim). 2 cents of disk space. :-) less than a buck
> Gamma> o'memory.
>
> Gamma> Vi's not what I would consider full-featured, though. Either
> Gamma> we can compare bare vi and bare emacs, or gvim and xemacs.
> Gamma> Either way... Feature-wise, they're practically identical.
>
> A bare emacs and a bare vi? Version control, mail, calendar,
> and diary, a find and grep interface, compile buffers, ange-ftp
> (transparent ftp editing). Even a "bare" emacs is pretty functional.
>
> Phil
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
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