Linux-Advocacy Digest #576, Volume #33 Fri, 13 Apr 01 12:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Blame it all on Microsoft (Chad Everett)
Re: Blame it all on Microsoft (Peter da Silva)
Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor (Thore B. Karlsen)
Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor (Thore B. Karlsen)
Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day. ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: More Microsoft security concerns: Wall Street Journal (Craig Kelley)
Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor (Duane Bozarth)
Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day. (Michael Pye)
Re: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure (Bob Hauck)
Re: Blame it all on Microsoft (Michael Pye)
Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day. (Chad Everett)
Re: Windows 2000 Reboots (Was: Something like Install Shield for Linux?) ("Kelsey
Bjarnason")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chad Everett)
Crossposted-To: comp.theory,comp.arch,comp.object
Subject: Re: Blame it all on Microsoft
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 13 Apr 2001 09:36:40 -0500
On 13 Apr 2001 10:21:44 -0400, Chris Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Douglas Siebert) writes:
>
>> Chris Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Douglas Siebert) writes:
>>
>> >> Even today, I'm sure a majority of corporate desktops are Windows 95 or
>> >> 98.
>>
>> >My limited experience contradicts this - it's more often Windows NT in
>> >our support calls - so could you back this up, I'm interested, perhaps
>> >our customers are unusual. Thanks
>>
>>
>> Well, I don't have any official survey results, I think we would both
>> be interested in such. But in my experience as a consultant, the places
>> I go almost always are running Win9x on their desktops. However, as I
>> do consulting in big-iron Unix systems (SAP environments, that sort of
>> thing) maybe I'm not getting a representative look.
>
>Our customers are financial professionals. On their desks it's mostly
>Windows NT judging by the problem reports we get, and something DOS
>based (95/98/ME) on their laptop. Never actually seen a bug report
>mentioning 2000 or ME so far. So I guess we can add our two
>unrepresentative samples together and conclude ... nothing ! :)
>
I work at a very large engineering complex (2000+ engineers, scientists,
etc.). Most engineers run Solaris or Linux and love having Linux on
their laptops. NT is used on most of the office administration type
machines. They are just starting to migrate those machines to W2K
now since it is such a pain to migrate with the way that Microsoft
does their releases plus the fact the everyone in the entire world
knows to NEVER trust a Microsoft first version of anything.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter da Silva)
Crossposted-To: comp.theory,comp.arch,comp.object
Subject: Re: Blame it all on Microsoft
Date: 13 Apr 2001 14:58:00 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Jerry Coffin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Quite the contrary: he (Judge Jackson) decided that Microsoft had a
> monopoly position because as a "finding of fact" he ruled that
> Windows was the entire market being judged.
Since the financial barrier to running a business on any othre platform is
so high that only a few brave souls attempt it. When Dennis Ritchie comes
to Usenix and uses Windows aids for a talk prepared on Windows, I think we
simply have to accept the fact that Windows *is* a market all by itself.
I can't think of another OS for which that could be considered even vaguely
true.
--
`-_-' In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.
'U` "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."
-- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Disclaimer: WWFD?
------------------------------
From: Thore B. Karlsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.shareware.programmer,comp.editors,comp.lang.java.help,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.softwaretools,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 10:10:10 -0500
On 13 Apr 2001 14:12:35 +0100, Nix <$}xinix{$@esperi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>What can't you do with customize?
>> Make functions that make emacs liveable.
>But you can't write code in *any* point-and-clicky configurator.
>
>Complaining because Emacs requires you to write code to configure
>things, and then complaining because its point-and-clicky configurator
>doesn't let you write code, is rather inconsistent.
No it's not. The point is that in emacs I _have_ to write functions to
make it liveable, whereas in other editors I can get by with just
fiddling with a few options.
M-x customize in emacs is not enough, but in vim I can get by with only
:options.
--
"By the time we've finished with him, he won't know whether
he's Number Six or the cube root of infinity!"
------------------------------
From: Thore B. Karlsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.shareware.programmer,comp.editors,comp.lang.java.help,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.softwaretools,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 10:10:12 -0500
On 13 Apr 2001 14:16:32 +0100, Nix <$}xinix{$@esperi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Emacs should stick to being a text editor, not an application environment.
>Sorry, but the Emacs developers and Emacs users disagree. It's been an
>application environment for a damned long time (decades).
I know, but I don't have to like it.
--
"By the time we've finished with him, he won't know whether
he's Number Six or the cube root of infinity!"
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day.
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:05:41 -0400
Mathew wrote:
>
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>
> > The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> > >
> > > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Aaron R. Kulkis
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote
> > > on Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:35:28 -0400
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > >The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, silverback
> > > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >> wrote
> > > >> on Wed, 11 Apr 2001 04:10:11 GMT
> > > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > >> >On Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:22:56 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sam A. Kersh)
> > > >> >wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >>Mathew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>> Goldhammer wrote:
> > > >> >>>> >
> > > >> >>>> > On Mon, 09 Apr 2001 13:33:15 -0400,
> > > >> >>>> > Rob Robertson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >> >>>> >
> > > >> >>>> > > Right. Fascism is characterized by the *state-directed* control of
> > > >> >>>> > >the economy,
> > > >> >>>> >
> > > >> >>>> > Hmm. Sounds like communism.
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>> Precisely.
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>> Communism and Fascism are merely different sides of the same coin.
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>And Capitalism has state-directed controls on the economy too.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>True capitalism is a laize faire proposition. And the prime rule is
> > > >> >>buyer beware.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >and a totally unworkable system
> > > >>
> > > >> I will agree on this point, 100% pure capitalism (with no regulation)
> > > >
> > > >anarchic capitalism, yes.
> > > >
> > > >Libertarian capitalism, no.
> > >
> > > Assuming "libertarian" meaning "minimal enforcement to ensure everyone's
> > > rights" or some such, I'd have to agree. But that's not lasseiz-faire,
> > > as I understand it. (Then again, lasseiz-faire may require a minimal
> > > level of enforcement as well, just to ensure no one gets swindled outright.
> > > I'd have to dig deep to check this, though.)
> >
> > Considering that Jefferson was a laissez-faire advocate, and he
> > wrote the constitution, which specifies minimal enforcement...
> >
> > The conclusion is left as an exercise for the reader.
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> would lead to a very foul system indeed, as the top cats start
> > > >> cutting sweetheart deals to shut out the lower echelons of society;
> > > >> the lower echelons will in turn shut out even lower echelons, and
> > > >> the poor will end up dead (pick your poison: air pollution, water
> > > >
> > > >Which is exactly what DOES happen in Communism.
> > >
> > > Yes, that is correct, and we have proof. Certain cities in the
> > > Eastern part of Europe are blackened by decades of pollution.
> > > (I've not seen proof firsthand, but I have seen pictures.)
> >
> > Generally, if you're in a big city of ANY former Warsaw Pact country,
> > OR if you are in a place where the water supply comes from a river which
> > is downstream from a big city in a Warsaw Pact country, then drinking
> > the local tap water is hazerdous to your health, due to the massive
> > volumes of pollution that the industries dump directly into the river.
>
> Yes, and as you have stated of the socialist environmental ,global
> warming conspiracy,and these countries being the ones who started it.
> Hehe
You really can't see the big fucking picture, can you, twit.
Yes...the Communists believe in LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of environmental
regulations on industry, with all of the economic burden which results
FOR ***OTHER*** COUNTRIES....MORON.
>
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I did not bring up this scenario to exclude communism; as far as
> > > I am concerned, sans regulation, both will end up at the same
> > > (bad) end. (And I must ask the question: why the ruble? In a
> > > pure communistic system, a monetary unit appears unnecessary.)
> > >
> > > Ideally, we wouldn't have to worry about it. Of course, ideally,
> > > we wouldn't have to worry about eating, drinking, defecating,
> > > moving from point A to point B, the high cost of energy used during
> > > flying [*], etc.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >> pollution, ground soil pollution, radioactivity, drive-by shootings
> > > >> by caring individuals using Tommy guns, ... :-) ). Ultimately, one
> > > >> will get a set of communes, each one a separate business, cartel, or trust.
> > > >>
> > > >> This is not to say communism is better; it leads to its own problems.
> > > >> The ideal system is a mix. A gasoline engine (standard 4-stroke,
> > > >> 2-stroke, jet turbine, whatever) cannot run on pure fuel or pure air;
> > > >> the trick is to adjust the mix in the combustion chamber for
> > > >> optimum throughput.
> > > >>
> > > >> Similarly with economies. The trick is to get the mix right.
> > > >> (It's actually a lot more complicated than that, with issues such
> > > >> as overshoot and ringing being thrown into the mix -- an overreactive
> > > >> regulatory system can "flood the engine", or lead into an oscillatory
> > > >> motion of the economy as the gain of the "amplifier" is too high,
> > > >> depending on which metaphor one desires. :-) I am of the opinion
> > > >> that the Fed needs to be more reactive and more precise, although
> > > >> I'm not sure how the Fed can accomplish same without a lot more
> > > >> economic data, reported more frequently that it is now.)
> > > >>
> > >
> > > [.sigsnip]
> > >
> > > [*] I'm referring to bird flight here. Birds have light air-filled bones
> > > and heavier musculature in their torsos than we do. We are
> > > still discovering some of their secrets (one interesting one is
> > > the creation of vortices by the flapping wing of a bird or moth,
> > > increasing the lift.
> > >
> > > --
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
> > > EAC code #191 6d:10h:05m actually running Linux.
> > > We are all naked underneath our clothes.
> >
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: More Microsoft security concerns: Wall Street Journal
Date: 13 Apr 2001 09:10:59 -0600
"Jan Johanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Chad Everett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > >Ho hum... still browsing, still using FTP, still resolving dns, still can
> > >remotely copy files and execute commands... ho hum...
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Alright! Thanks. Of course now you have not way to query arbitrary
> > DNS servers...but that probably won't matter to you. Now if we could
> > just get Aaron to change his headers.....
> >
>
> You know, I've never had reason to do this. Every time I've had to get more
> than just a typical lookup from a DNS server it's because it was one I am
> administering and I just went to the source and looked at the screen. I
> really can't think of the last time I used nslookup. Is this another one of
> those things unix people have to do and find it confusing when no one else
> does?
When you're fighting SPAM, nslookup and traceroute are very valuable.
--
It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a slot on your ATX videoboard
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: Duane Bozarth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.comp.shareware.programmer,comp.editors,comp.lang.java.help,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.softwaretools,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 10:13:04 -0500
Michael Vester wrote:
>
> Dan Miller wrote:
> >
snip some other stuff....
> > > >So, you're recommending Brief?? It hasn't been available for awhile...
> > >
> > > Brief's the best programmer's editor I ever used. Despite
> > > compatability claims I've never found another editor that duplicates
> > > Brief's intuitiveness. Too bad Borland bought it up and then forgot
> > > about it.
> > >
> > I agree... I used Brief for over a decade, and *loved* it... it's still the
> > prototype for many of the capabilities that people expect to see in a
> > Dos/Windows editor. <...snip minor anti-Borland rant....>
> I was a big fan of Brief too. Wrote many lines of code with it. Still use
> it when editing a big file in losedos. Unfortunately, it can't deal with
> the > 8.3 filenames. When Boreland bought Brief, I had great
> expectations. I was disappointed.
As were many others, me among them...
As for the 8.3 filenames w/Brief, I use a batch file which creates the
sfn version of the file names passed and invokes Brief with them. If
also set path with same trick, the internal compile sequence also works
just fine. I use the JP Software 4xx command processors which have
built-in functions to return the short filename from the lfn, but
wouldn't be too hard to emulate.
------------------------------
From: Michael Pye <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day.
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:14:47 +0100
> What *is* happening in America today? Are we feeling the effects of
> 'democratic socialism', 'liberal fascism', or something else entirely?
It's fairly simple. You are feeling the effects of all being stupid twats
who can't find their collective arse with both hands.
Liberty sweet liberty
Chartiable Respectability
When passivism killed us all
For all the tourists on the Berlin Wall
So we protest about human rights,
Worship obesity as our birthright
and freedom of speech won't feed my children
ust bring heart diease and bootleg clothing.
Freedom of speach won't feed my children
but it gives us all a clearer conscience...
Yup. There you have the american in a nutshell.
MP
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure
Reply-To: hauck[at]codem{dot}com
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:22:44 GMT
On Fri, 13 Apr 2001 02:34:18 GMT, Chad Myers
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Wed, 11 Apr 2001 03:39:29 GMT, Chad Myers
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > SP4 was pretty good actually.
> >
> > Unless you happened to want to run Lotus Notes or one of the other apps
> > that stopped working after it was applied.
> Again, this was Lotus et al's fault, not MS.
Why of course it was. It always is someone else's fault. Rah, rah,
gooooo MS!
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| Codem Systems, Inc.
-| http://www.codem.com/
------------------------------
From: Michael Pye <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.theory,comp.arch,comp.object
Subject: Re: Blame it all on Microsoft
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:24:08 +0100
> > People buy MS products because they get something out of it. Ever tried to
> > use Borland products ?
Er. Yes actually I have. Borland C++ Builder was a dream when compared with
Miscrosoft Visual C++...
MP
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chad Everett)
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 13 Apr 2001 10:33:44 -0500
On Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:14:47 +0100, Michael Pye <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> What *is* happening in America today? Are we feeling the effects of
>> 'democratic socialism', 'liberal fascism', or something else entirely?
>
>It's fairly simple. You are feeling the effects of all being stupid twats
>who can't find their collective arse with both hands.
>
In recent years Americans have been willing to give away their rights of
free speech, protection against unlawful search and seisure, and
presumption of innocence for the promise of safety, security, and
political correctness.
Many parents in the United States live in fear of having to bring their
child to the Doctor or emergency room if they've hurt themselves because
of the risk of getting reported to some family and child services agency
for abuse. The local news media is all too happy to jump right in an
report this as a child abuse case without a single hearing or verdict.
Some schools have banned the playing of tag among the students because
it "leads to inproper touching". An elementary school boy who kisses
a girl is accused of sexual assault.
Innocent people's lives have been ruined by mentally ill false accusers
and overzealous ,politically motivated prosecutors. (See Little Rascals
Day Care Center case).
Stating one's politically incorrect personal beliefs (i.e. free speech)
results in a backlash of libel and slander by the political-correct
speech police.
This barely touches the surface of examples of how Americans are pissing
away their precious, hard fought constitutional rights for the promise
of security.
That's my take on an answer to your question.
------------------------------
From: "Kelsey Bjarnason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 Reboots (Was: Something like Install Shield for Linux?)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:55:03 GMT
[snips]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Craig Kelley"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Assuming you install 3 packages a day, every day, expect to reboot for
>> this reason at most once every 6 months or so; hardly the end of the
>> world.
>
> Strange, I have *never* needed to reboot my machine when I upgraded RPM
> or dpkg/apt.
>
> I have *never* needed to reboot my machine when I upgraded *any*
> software under Linux, except for installing a new kernel.
Yes, well, there are some differences between modes of operation. If
something causing you to reboot your machine every six months is such a
heinously big deal for you, don't use it. Personally, though, I find the
proposition at best silly.
>> So talk to the admin who set that up. He _could_ have rolled out the
>> whole package locally. Or he could have set up a half dozen FTP sites,
>> plus the LAN share point, plus the CD, so that nothing short of the end
>> of the Internet would prevent a user being able to update his
>> installation as needed. He didn't. So blame the tool, right?
>
> Right. Any 'tool' that causes me more work isn't a useful 'tool'.
More work? No - less work. Much less work. To roll out a new product
install to 10,000 client PCs should reqiure, tops, 5 minutes of effort on
your part as an admin. Once rolled out, you don't need to worry about
silly little things like users deleting files or settings. Or, for that
matter, PCs failing; if their PC dies, move them to the next one down the
line and once they log on, voila - there's their data, applications, etc,
etc.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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