Linux-Advocacy Digest #655, Volume #33 Tue, 17 Apr 01 01:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software (T. Max Devlin)
Re: XP = eXPerimental (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Has Linux anything to offer ? (Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?=)
Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ? ("Monte Milanuk")
Re: New directions for kernel development ("Steven J. Hathaway")
Re: Who votes for Sliverdick to be executed: AYEs:3 NAYS:0 (1 ABSTAIN) (Gunner ©)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 04:18:30 GMT
Said Les Mikesell in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Mon, 09 Apr 2001 01:40:37
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >> The one that makes it part of the laws of the United States of America,
>> >> where epistemological arguments are not allowed to make an individuals
>> >> rights disappear in a puff of smoke.
>> >
>> >Then I guess you won't have any trouble quoting that section before
>> >going on with any more nonsense.
>>
>> Who said it was a section?
>
>I didn't think you could.
No, you thought I couldn't; I knew I couldn't, and we both knew that I
wouldn't. Stop playing troll-games, you little prick.
>> >> >Aside from this fantasy having nothing to do with the law, if the
>> >> >operator must 'have' this component, then it becomes a use issue.
>> >> >That is, you have a copy of the library under its own terms and
>> >> >anything dynamically linking to it does not make a copy but uses
>> >> >the existing copy which you have the right to use.
>> >>
>> >> Fuck that. Metaphysical hogwash.
>> >
>> >Is that the technical term?
>>
>> Fine. Good bye. You should have just responded, rather than sniping.
>
>Responded to that? I'm waiting for the legal argument.
You have failed to answer my legal argument, and thus would like to
pretend it doesn't exist: can you say "metaphysical hogwash"? I didn't
think so. How about "you're just wasting my time being a little prick"?
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: XP = eXPerimental
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 04:18:32 GMT
Said Ermine Todd III in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sat, 7 Apr 2001
09:32:01 -0700;
>Linux is for people who don't have any real work to do and can spend endless
>hours recompiling the kernel and are too cheap to pay for the real thing.
BWAH-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA. U R *SEW* PHUNNNNIE, Dude!
Guffaw.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 04:18:35 GMT
Said Craig Kelley in comp.os.linux.advocacy on 05 Apr 2001 23:13:48
>T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> Said Craig Kelley in comp.os.linux.advocacy on 05 Apr 2001 09:38:42
>> >"Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> >
>> >> Oh, so the Rep's were the only ones honest about their dealings?
>> >
>> >Of course not, but at least republicans go after Microsoft with the
>> >intent of restoring a free market, and not with some loony class-war
>> >redistribution of wealth fanaticism.
>>
>> Liberals have no class-war issues; that's just the straw-man of the
>> conservatives. Communists have class-war issues. Liberals are not
>> watered-down communists. That is, again, just the straw-man of the
>> conservatives. They have a lot of them.
>
>You say toe-may-toe, I say toe-ma-toe.
>
>Without getting into the particulars, both class warfare and straw man
>classifications are subjective terms as seen through the eyes of an
>individual.
Ultimately, all terms are thus subjective, making this an unnecessary,
and therefore dubious, point.
>I would say that flaming [ie, not run-of-the-mill]
>liberals are full of straw man arguments (such as: "republicans are
>the party of big business while democrats are the party of the people"
>[Barbara Striesand]), but that's probably meaningless to you. Also, I
>would define such statements as class warfare.
Actually, republicans *are* the party of big business while democrats
are the party of the people. Of course, republicans like to pretend
they are the party of the individual, and democrats would like to
pretend they aren't flaming liberals. My point was that the straw men
and class warfare of the liberals is no less nor more subjective or
objective than the straw men and class warfare of the conservatives.
The concept of class warfare comes from Marx, which is communism, and
both liberals and conservatives have a very strong affinity, which both
deny just as strongly and both are accused of by the other just as
routinely, with communism; the democrats in the socio-economic method,
and the republicans in the political method.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 04:18:36 GMT
Said Scott R. Godin in comp.os.linux.advocacy on 9 Apr 2001 13:36:29
GMT;
>In article <9aqr1b$r6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>
> | BTW: many conservatives openly call for class warfare as well. I'm
> | not defending them. To a libertarian, both ideologies have some
> | serious issues.
>
>heh :j noticed that, have you?
Now if only this didn't sound like simple naive arrogance; to either,
libertarians have serious ideological issues.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 04:18:38 GMT
Said Matthew Gardiner in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri, 6 Apr 2001
15:06:53 +1200;
><snype>
>> That would be horrible. First of all, it gives the biggest parties
>> more money to maintain their strangle-hold on politics. Secondly, it
>> wouldn't address the super-soft money that is silently spent by the
>> mass media on their candidates of choice. Thirdly, it abridges our
>> freedom of speech by masking what we can say (our supreme court has
>> ruled that money is speech).
>Well, for example, we have 7 parties in parliament (National, Act, United,
>New Zealand First, Greens, Alliance, Labour), the current government is made
>up of an Alliance, Labour and Greens (same type of party as the one in
>Germany) coalition. The Greens at the last election came from no-where to
>holding the balance of power in the coalition. Also, another reason why
>these parties do get in is because there is a +90% turnout on election
>night, which also helps small parties to get into parliament. A MMP system
>would be a viable alternative to the system currently being used in the US.
>As for the president, the electral college has to be the biggest co-jobs
>since Microsoft. Presidents should be voted in on the number of votes they
>receive, thus, instead of a small, hicks-ville state holding the country to
>ransom.
Nah; presidents shouldn't really have that much power. Political power,
I mean; they should have great governmental powers. I'm not
recommending we turn them into Queen-mother figureheads.
Anyway, reading of the coalitions and vote-grabbing that seems to go on,
a thought occurred to me expression why I would and do prefer the US
system. I'd rather politics become a flame-fest then that it should
become a soap opera. People, both electorate and elected, should cast
their vote honestly, not strategically.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 04:18:38 GMT
Said Matthew Gardiner in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri, 6 Apr 2001
15:26:32 +1200;
>Thanks for the idea, I'll start up a pointless site called www.Guffaw.com ,
>remember to use all the buzz words, and voila, I'm a millionaire ;)
It could happen. But I'd rethink the "pointless" angle.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 04:18:40 GMT
Said Matthew Gardiner in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri, 6 Apr 2001
>Well, thats due to Aaron. Why the fuck should I spend half my time triming
>the post because of his (Aarons) supa-long sig. As you can see, I am now
>conforming to the rules...Don't beat me master, Don't beat me!
The lack of quoted material seems to indicate that it might be due to
you. Personally, I have a newsreader that trims sigs, and Aaron, thank
the gods, manages to properly delimit his. Besides, I would recommend
simply not replying to Aaron at all; oh, and also learning how to not
top-post.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 04:18:42 GMT
Said Peter Hayes in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sat, 07 Apr 2001 20:03:59
>On Thu, 05 Apr 2001 04:08:37 GMT, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>
>> Said Chad Myers in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed, 04 Apr 2001 01:27:48
>> >> > I fear them for what they are doing! I despise them for doing it!
>> >> >
>> >> > Good luck to all of us... we're going to need it!
>> >
>> ><sigh> Do you guys ever think for youself?
>>
>> *Wow. I have *never* felt that feeling before.*
>>
>> *Is that what it's like to actually want to kill another human being?*
>>
>> >Do you think that any such terms would ever stand up in court?
>> >Of course not.
>>
>> Do you think Microsoft is going to wait until some proves this illegal
>> in court before absconding with billions of dollars worth of trade
>> secrets and intellectual property?
>
>So, if Microsoft do acquire billions of dollars worth of trade secrets and
>intellectual property by a process subsequently proved to be illegal, then
>that will without doubt be the end of Microsoft.
Sure, once each individual takes them to court, IF they can prove MS
actually used the property itself, concrete proof of which might be
tough to come by, knowing MS's penchant for NDAs....
>They'll be sued by everyone and his brother for many times their assets, as
>will all the companies they set up to exploit their illegally garnered
>information and be very effectively bankrupted.
Yea, sure. And their operating systems prove that crime doesn't pay.
>This could just be one step too far even for these arrogant toerags. Give
>them enough rope...
I'd prefer to just drape it over their heads, myself, seeing as they've
already gone and confessed, thanks.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 04:18:42 GMT
Said Matthew Gardiner in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sat, 07 Apr 2001
22:07:31 +1200;
>I couldn't care less about what Microsoft does. If they want to implement that
>license, who cares? I don't use Hotmail or any of the msn services as they are
>crap and don't cater for what I want, hence, I use the email service provided
>by SUN Microsystems, and use www.nzoom.com as my homepage.
The voice of reason. Guffaw.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 04:18:44 GMT
Said Zed Mister in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Thu, 05 Apr 2001 22:17:21
GMT;
>Not really. A few people (including myself) e-mailed cnet about it and they
>ran off the story. Microsoft then changed their license. You had the
>stupid idea of blocking all mail coming from or going to hotmail from
>passing through your servers, which is pretty damn stupid. You should think
>logically next time and go to the press with this sort of thing instead of
>coming up with dumb ideas in an attempt to stick it to Microsoft. It's not
>necessary to go to ridiculous lengths to get things done, ok? Just use your
>head next time.
You failed, miserably. The license was nominally changed (Yahoo's was
supposedly changed as well, but still takes everything in text for their
unlimited use), but only for Americans. Everyone else is now screwed
(as are Americans) but, see, now nobody cares because MS made a press
release and hid their criminal intent a bit better.
You want to use your head, block hotmail. But you have to use your
balls, too.
>"Chad Everett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>> Oh, I read it all right. This discussion and Mead's article was
>> based on the license that existed until just last night (April 4th,
>> 2001).
>>
>> You seem to have trouble understanding that Microsoft just changed
>> their license under pressure from privacy rights groups, users, and the
>> press. This just happened today (or last night). See:
>>
>> http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-5508903.html?tag=mn_hd
>>
>>
>> Notice the "Revised April 4, 2001" notice at the bottom of:
>>
>> http://www.passport.com/Consumer/TermsOfUse.asp?PPlcid=1033
>>
>>
>
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Has Linux anything to offer ?
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 04:45:35 +0200
Tim Hanson wrote:
>
> My memory isn't any better than yours; I make it a practice to give away
> past versions of SuSE to some aspiring newbie, so I don't have 6.4
> around anymore. Add to it that I didn't have a DVD player at the time,
> so any disk wouldn't have been used. I did call the person to whom I
> gave the distro; she said there was no DVD. One of us would have to
> have to have thrown the DVD and jewel box (for 7.0 there was a separate
> jewel box) away, and we're both sure we didn't. FWIW. <shrug>
>
> I _do_ know that the convenience of having it all on one disk is worth
> the price of the player, and then some. :-)
>
6.4 was on 6 CD´s, no DVD
Peter
--
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines
------------------------------
From: "Monte Milanuk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ?
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 04:28:40 GMT
Charles Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> However there are a number of manufacturers who make PC equals for the
> factory floor. They are much lower cost than traditional factory
> hardware, especially HP or Sun systems. These systems cost lots more
> than CompUSA trash, but still are cost effective, *IF* they have a good
> OS loaded. Linux does have competitors in this market, QNX being one.
> But the cost of a single BSOD is high enough to keep Windows out.
I'm not so sure about that. When I left a steel mill in early 1999, the big
thing the automation vendors were starting to push was 'SoftPLC', where the
idea was that for normal stuff that doesn't require high speed i/o and
distributed processing, rather than having dedicated racks of special
processors, they could have cards connected to an x86 PC and have the CPU do
the crunching -- kinda like a Winmodem, but a WinPLC, since the operating
system they were touting for this task was WinNT4. Scary.
Monte
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 20:28:36 -0800
From: "Steven J. Hathaway" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: New directions for kernel development
Linus Torvalds wrote:
Hi all <blah.blah.blah>
============
Besides the quote from Linus - I question that he wrote the diatribe - but
much of which was written can be seen in as originating in the university
subcultures of the uncouth claiming to be intellectual mystics. Many of the
divergent philosophies and morally deplorable trappings have made their
appearances throughout our technocultures since the 60s.
What both Linux and I decry is the promiscuous promulgation of prostituted
morality and ethics, and to mention uncleanliness of manners and dress.
We would hope that the open-source community would take pride in the better
things in life and bring this uplifted attitude toward our endeavors. We do
not like the fruits of our labours being dragged through the trenches of
debauchery, profanity, and immorality, but would prefeer to see them proffered
by caring souls to enlighten the communies of intellectual thinkers and
problem solvers.
Many of our corporate bretheren, not barried in the code trenches, but
responsible for business, finance, and welfare of masses, see significant
value in products that are presented with dignity. This means that we may
need to scrub our demeanor and manners and adorn our attire with cleanliness,
and the accouterments of respect in order to enhance the dignity and acclaim
of our endeavors.
Instead of - Me Too - and likewise thinking , prepare yourselves for a
change in culture that is required for success in a new age as our labours
go from obscurity and have to survive in a world of scrutiny and
visibility. This world is new to many of you and offers little refuge
for those unwilling to put on cleaner robes.
I am an enthusiastic supporter of the Linux operating system, the GNU
and open-source unrestricted development philosophies, but perceptions
need to be improved if our labours are to be embrased by the larger
world outside of our cloistered computer cathederals and virtual
realities.
Sincerely,
Steven J. Hathaway
------------------------------
From: Gunner © <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Who votes for Sliverdick to be executed: AYEs:3 NAYS:0 (1 ABSTAIN)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:33:15 -0700
On Mon, 16 Apr 2001 20:33:44 -0500, "David L. Moffitt"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>%%%% AYE!!!!
>
>"Rob Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Re:
>>
>> "Let's take a nice, Glen "Sliverdick" Yeadon style pure-democratic
>> vote:
>>
>> All for putting Glen "Sliverdick" Yeadon up against the wall, and
>> filling him full of lead, say "AYE!" All opposed, say "NAY"
>>
>> Let's see how much Sliverdick likes democracy now."
>>
>> > AYES:3
>> > NAYS:0
>>
>> ABSTAIN:1
>>
>> An example of the dangers of pure democracy is all well and good,
>> but I reject pure democracy even if Glen advocates it and wouldn't
>> vote either way on the matter; there is no moral justification for
>> the action or the mass decision behind it.
>>
>> _
>> Rob Robertson
Hummm Ayes:4
Nays:0
Abst:1
Two more ayes and we have enough for the firing party.
Gunner
>
"So it was that four hours later, carrying two hundred cigarettes, completely drunk
and with a
half-naked, unmarried Filipino lady, I emerged, behind the writing desk in the
Headmaster's
study-simultaneously breaking a hundred and twenty-seven school rules. The Chaplain,
now
seventy-four and impatient to get his Archbishopric, had finished the tunnel just a
hundred yards
too early."
------------------------------
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