Linux-Advocacy Digest #101, Volume #35 Sun, 10 Jun 01 05:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Windows makes good coasters (GreyCloud)
Re: Windows makes good coasters (GreyCloud)
Re: Dennis Ritchie -- He Created Unix, But Now Uses Microsoft Windows ("Ayende
Rahien")
Re: The usual Linux spiel... (was Re: Is Open Source for You?) (GreyCloud)
Re: What Microsoft's CEO should do (Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?=)
Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! (Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?=)
Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop (Peter
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?=)
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! (Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?=)
Re: What Microsoft's CEO should do (Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?=)
Re: UI Importance (GreyCloud)
Re: The usual Linux spiel... (was Re: Is Open Source for You?) ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: UI Importance (GreyCloud)
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust! ("green")
Re: Dennis Ritchie -- He Created Unix, But Now Uses Microsoft Windows (Vilmos Soti)
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust! ("green")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.linux,comp.os.
Subject: Re: Windows makes good coasters
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 01:08:17 -0700
drsquare wrote:
>
> On Sat, 09 Jun 2001 22:24:03 +0100, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (Peter Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 4 Jun 2001 16:28:25 +1000, "Interconnect" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >wrote:
>
> >> > But it's nowhere near as good as PSP
> >>
> >> Well it depends on what you want it to do isn't it?
> >> I know you can't do screen capture with PSP but with GIMP it's a piece of
> >> cake.
> >
> >Of course you can do a screen capture with PSP. There's even a "capture"
> >menu up front on the menu bar - sheesh...
> >
> >But anyone who thinks PSP is even close to Gimp needs their head examined.
>
> Yeah, GIMP has a very long way to catch up. It only works if you've
> got GNOME installed anyway.
Gimp works for me and I don't have Gnome.
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.linux,comp.os.
Subject: Re: Windows makes good coasters
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 01:09:05 -0700
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
> drsquare wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, GIMP has a very long way to catch up. It only works if you've
> > got GNOME installed anyway.
>
> I haven't use PaintShop Pro lately (bought a live copy of it about
> a year and 1/2 ago.) GIMP seems comparable.
>
> Oh, and go figure this out... GIMP runs in Gnome and Windoze!
> (I'll bet it will run in KDE too if you install the libraries
> it requires.)
>
> Chris
Of course GIMP runs under KDE. Caldera Linux comes to mind.
--
V
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dennis Ritchie -- He Created Unix, But Now Uses Microsoft Windows
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 11:13:17 +0200
"somebody" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Has anyone else read the latest issue of Linux Magazine? There is an
interview
> of Dennis Ritchie complete with several photos of him sitting behind his
desk at
> bell labs.
>
> his monitor is clearly visible-- very obviously and very ironically
running
> ms-windows! LOL, i had to laugh!
>
> i didn't see any mention of that in the interview, but c'mon, the
co-inventor of
> UNIX is now using Microsoft WINDOWS?!?!?
>
> check out the article for yourself. dunno if it's online anywhere.
Not online yet, I think.
http://www.linux-mag.com/2001-06/toc.html
Is where it will probably be in a month or so.
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The usual Linux spiel... (was Re: Is Open Source for You?)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 01:24:43 -0700
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > >
> > > "Rob S. Wolfram" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > > <low blow> Windows NT /was/ written with protability in mind (Mach
> > > > microkernel, HAL), but it looks like MS has abandoned that path...
> > > > </low blow>
> > >
> > > Not really.
> > > There are going to be two version of WinXP & 2K for 64 bits.
> > >
> > > Who want to bet on how long it would take to x86 proper to die?
> > > I set the bet on five to ten years from the moment I can get Itanuim &
> > > x86-64 on today's mid-high end prices.
> > > Unless Intel decide to cut 32 bits and just do 64bits.
> >
> > It is apparent that MS has to write two completely different o/ses...
> > one 32-bit and the other 64-bit. I won't bet on the ia-32s future...
> > with marketing and $ in their eyes its going to be pricey 64-bit
> > machines in the future... and repeat the cycle of the same old software
> > again only in new packaging and more colorful advertising.
>
> No, NT is a portable OS, this mean that you can keep most of the code base
> when you port to different platforms.
> You would need to write a new HAL, and maybe do some a little more work, but
> then it should be source code compatible, if not binary compatible (IA64
> would allow this?).
>
> If they wanted 9x on IA64, *then* they would've to rewrite a different OS.
> Imagine, 32 bit OS on a 64 bits Chip using 16 bits code that it inherit from
> an 8 bit OS designed to run on a 4 bit chip.
> Yuck!
LOL!! :-)) I was looking at the other companies' software lineup...
they'll recompile the same product for a new o/s and charge more for it.
--
V
------------------------------
From: Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What Microsoft's CEO should do
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 09:54:01 +0200
T. Max Devlin wrote:
>
> Well, forgive me my technical naivete, but that sounds like hogwash.
> isn't screen drawing kind of what puts the 'G' in GUI? There is the
> *shell*, that's Explorer (often confused with 'the' GUI, when at best it
> is 'a' GUI) and then there is the GUI, that's what MS calls 'the GDI'.
>
Yep, you´re technical naive, otherwise you would not mix up this
stuff so badly. The GDI is /part/ of the GUI, not the GUI itself.
Peter
--
Windows is just the instable version of Linux for users who are too
dumb to handle the real thing.
------------------------------
From: Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 10:21:36 +0200
T. Max Devlin wrote:
>
> It is a question of suitability. Perhaps theoretically a DVD is a
> suitable replacement for a CD of either type. But in the real world,
> one is not a good substitute for the other. Your original point,
> concerning only DVDs, has already been entirely lost. You should admit
> your mistake and move on.
>
What are you ranting about?
A DVD is quite good as a replacement for a CD, as it is able to read
the CD´s also. Have you ever by accident seen a SuSE 7? It consists
of 7 CD´s and 1 DVD, which holds the contents of the 7 CD´s.
Its just conveniant to pop in only the DVD and be done with it instead of
shuffling the CD´s when you install.
But who would expect TMax (who uses Windows) to know about that.
For him it´s certainly sufficient to ramble about it out of ignorance.
Peter
--
The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably
the day they start making vacuum cleaners" - Ernst Jan Plugge
------------------------------
From: Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.fan.jackie-tokeman,soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 10:35:43 +0200
Clarice wrote:
>
>
> Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>
>> drsquare wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Kulkis got dumped by his boyfriend?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>I only go out with females, you ass-reamed moron.
>> >
>> > I doubt any female would want to go out with you.
>> >
>> Nope, those that otherwise want $5 for their job would do it.
>> But they will demand a hike in the price to about $50.
>> (And that if Aaron keeps his hands off them. Otherwise it will
>> be more about $500)
>
> Are you, Peter Köhlmann, German?
>
Yes. Why do you ask?
>
>> Peter
>>
>> --
>> Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines
>
> 10 out of 10 ferrets agree with this sig line.
>
I´m certain the do
Peter
--
If Windows is the answer then it probably has been a stupid question
------------------------------
From: Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 10:27:28 +0200
T. Max Devlin wrote:
> Said Peter Köhlmann in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sat, 9 Jun 2001
>>T. Max Devlin wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I would be very interested in knowing how this is going. I will point
>>>>> out that Scandinavia is rather socialist, so it doesn't have to be
>>
>>Go to scandinavia and tell them that. You will get a good laugh.
>>Get an education and then come back to us.
>
> Who should I talk to? Everyone there? What percentage of them are on
> this "one big mainframe ISP" at the moment? What is their market share?
>
So reading is not one of your preferred skills.
You yourself babbled about the "rather socialist" scandinavian countries.
I responded to that, and what comes out of TMax? More BS.
Peter
--
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines
------------------------------
From: Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What Microsoft's CEO should do
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 10:35:54 +0200
T. Max Devlin wrote:
>
> Flumm-flummery is what that is. You seem to be saying that the GUI is
> just explorer. If the *GUI* 'crashes', that means the GDI crashed. If
> Explorer crashes, it means an app has crashed.
>
Wrong. GDi is seldom the /part/ of the GUI that crashes. Just stop to
lecture people about things you´re completely ignorant about
Peter
--
A blue screen is nothing to worry about,
just press [CTRL]+[ALT]+[DEL] and format c:
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 01:35:32 -0700
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
> Said Edward Rosten in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sat, 09 Jun 2001
> >> for i in *.zip; do mv $i $(echo $i|sed 's/\(.*\)\.zip/\1.blah/');done
> >
> >> There will now follow a big flame thread about how I'm an idiot and the
> >> above command is completely wrong and will destroy the world.
> >
> >Indedd, this is a religous issue.
> >
> >The one TRUE way is as follows:
> >
> >ls *.zip | sed -e's/\(.*\).zip/mv & \1.blah' | sh
> >
> >or than again, you could xargs instead of sh, or find instead of ls, or
> >grep instead of *.zip, etc, etc, etc.
> >
> >Either way, there's about a billion trivial ways of doing it which are
> >perfectly effective and more flexibe than the
> >
> >rename *.a *.b
> >
> >method (ie you can put a grep in there for more advanced pattern
> >matching, or use another program instead of mv if you want to perform
> >another operation), which is probably why us UNIX users don't miss the
> >rename command at all.
> >
> >Once again, UNIX rules!
>
> Well, maybe in comparison to monopoly crapware, at least. ;-)
>
> Personally, I find myself doing 'rename *.a *.b' relatively frequently,
> and am disappointed that the syntax isn't supported in Unix shells
> (though I certainly understand why it isn't, and don't consider it a
> failing, merely a deficiency.)
>
> But Unix does rule, so I'm glad to hear this can be done. I would like
> to make an 'alias' or a 'script' or something so that on my Linux box, I
> can use the 'rename' command with syntax equivalent to how it works on
> Windows. It needs to be really robust, so that I can forget all about
> how it works, just type it in and it will always 'do the right thing'.
> This should include supporting '*.' for files without "extensions", and
> it would be even nicer if it also did better than Microsoft's
> implementation by correctly handling multiple periods or alternate
> delimiters. Any suggestions from the ubergeeks?
>
> --
> T. Max Devlin
> *** The best way to convince another is
> to state your case moderately and
> accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
I would try in putting this in your .bash_profile file:
alias rename=mv
The rest should follow what you want.
--
V
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The usual Linux spiel... (was Re: Is Open Source for You?)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 11:37:36 +0200
"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> LOL!! :-)) I was looking at the other companies' software lineup...
> they'll recompile the same product for a new o/s and charge more for it.
It wouldn't surprise me at all.
I just wonder how compelling 64bits really is, enough to make ISV develop
for it?
Win64 info is still on its way to me, so I can't tell you if there is
anything there that is good enough to make an ISV lock its product from
IA32.
Databases will certainly use it, and servers, I suppose, but other than
that?
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 01:38:36 -0700
Stuart Fox wrote:
>
> "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > I think you are mixing up two different concepts... windows of any
> > version is not unix and vice versa. All things on unix are considered
> > as character streams and these character streams can go anywhere. It
> > doesn't matter if bash uses an external program to do things as these
> > external programs are standard with all unix systems. I've never seen a
> > unix system without sed, awk, grep, etc. These are small programs that
> > are loaded efficiently and execute their task very efficiently. Windows
> > may do these same such tasks differently, but in the end the results
> > will be the same. Its just a different way to do things is all.
> >
> I'm not mixing anything up - the CLI is as useful as the tools you can use
> in it. I use awk and grep on a regular basis in Windows, because they're
> useful tools. However, claiming the command line is crippled without
> acknowledging the existence of external executables is dumb.
>
Oh, I agree with you there.
> Bash the shell is not awk, or sed or any of those tools. It's just the
> interpreter. Likewise cmd.exe is not ping, or awk or sed. Now, you might
> like to claim that cmd.exe has a crippled interpreter, I don't know. But I
> don't agree that the command line is crippled.
I would follow you and agree with you there as well. I'm not acquainted
with cmd.exe unfortunately.
--
V
------------------------------
From: "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:59:45 +1000
"JS \ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9flpjv$gjv$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "JS \ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> >
> > > What does all that have to do with an operating system crash? The
> feature
> > > your talking about gives you the option of saving an open document if
> the
> > > "program" stops responding. I've been running Windows XP *BETA!* for a
> > month
> > > and the OS has never crashed.
> >
> > I got you beat here, 44 days before the UPS decided to play games.
> >
> > > Been running Windows 2000 since the day it
> > > hit the shelves and had 1 (one) OS crash. Whenever I run Mandrake
> > programs
> > > crash left and right. It's a rarity that even a "program" crashes
under
> > > Windows 2000.
> >
> > Not really.
> > It certainly isn't common, but it's not very rare.
> >
> > > And I don't see anywhere on the features page where it talks about
> > reporting
> > > errors back to Microsoft. Can you point to where they talk about that
> > > feature?
> >
> > Didn't you noticed that when a program crash, it asks you whatever to
send
> > or not send an error report?
> > The idea is that:
> > A> If it's a known problem, you would get the fix.
> > B> If it's an unknown problem, MS would get the technicaleties of the
> > situation, rather than a cryptic "the program crashed".
>
> I've seen that in XP beta and Win2k beta. I thought the guy was saying
that
> the crash reporting will remain in the final release version. I seriously
> doubt that it will. Even with the current crash reporting it asks if you'd
> like to send it in. That's not very "Big Brother-ish"
>
>
the report tool is still there though.
c:\WinNT\winrep.exe
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dennis Ritchie -- He Created Unix, But Now Uses Microsoft Windows
From: Vilmos Soti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 09:04:26 GMT
somebody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Has anyone else read the latest issue of Linux Magazine? There
> is an interview of Dennis Ritchie complete with several photos
> of him sitting behind his desk at bell labs.
>
> his monitor is clearly visible-- very obviously and very ironically
> running ms-windows! LOL, i had to laugh!
IIRC this is a company policy to use Windows. Not his choice.
Vilmos
------------------------------
From: "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:10:38 +1000
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said green in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 6 Jun 2001 13:32:24 +1000;
> >"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> [...]
> >> >The will, however, be able to install, configure and use Windows XP.
> >>
> >> ...and they will, indeed, curse it from the first moment on, while
> >> remaining captive to monopoly crapware. They can re-install Windows
XP;
> >> in Linux, the most they'll have to learn is how to recompile a kernel,
a
> >> far less intrusive activity, from their point of view.
> >
> >shit, comparing compiling a kernel to installing windows xp. has it got
> >easyer,
> >is there a wisard that helps it along in 2.4.4 ?.
>
> You seem to have misunderstood the term 'intrusive'. It doesn't relate
> to whether there is a 'wizard' or not.
>
> >more likly the arerage joe/jane computer user will pass it of to some
> >relitive or
> >friend to do for them. probably happens 80% of the time any way.
>
> Almost certainly, yes. The difference between this and Windows is the
> 'local geek' for joe/jane can just telnet in and set it up remotely,
> saving a trip to joe/janes house.
>
> Think about the term 'intrusive' for a few weeks, and consider what I
> might mean by that. This isn't a point you're ever going to win.
>
from their point of view intrusive into the workings of the computer. i.e.
what type,
do I have a net work card, modem. the same as a linux kernel but in a linux
kernel you need to
know more info to set up some things like usb, inserting modules latter,
tcpip networking.
my point was a windows install is far less intrusive when it comes to what
hardware info the
user needs to know to get a working system.
ok nuf said and yes I can't win the argument on how you would / do use
intrusive and how it applied to
your comments :). bye.
------------------------------
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