Linux-Advocacy Digest #299, Volume #35 Sat, 16 Jun 01 12:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Getting used to Linux (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Dennis Ritchie -- He Created Unix, But Now Uses Microsoft Windows (Mark)
Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell" (Michael Sims)
Re: Dennis Ritchie -- He Created Unix, But Now Uses Microsoft Windows (Mark)
Re: Linux wins again....
Re: MSnbc calls MS on MS's FUD campain!
Re: Microsoft Security Bulletin MS01-032 : SQL Query Method Enables Cached
Administrator Connection to be Reused
Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and (Rotten168)
Re: IBM Goes Gay (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" (Tim Adams)
Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and (Rotten168)
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" ("Ayende Rahien")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 18:45:25 +0200
"Peter Hayes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2001 15:49:00 +0200, "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > "drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > On Sat, 16 Jun 2001 14:37:56 +0200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > > ("Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> > >
> > > >"Woofbert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >
> > > >> Who controls the content of these added links?
> > > >
> > > >The user.
> > >
> > > How do they do this?
> >
> > Read the SDK, and you'll know.
>
> I'd imagine XP phones home and gets an updated list from Microsoft.
No, it doesn't.
> Want on the list? Pay Microsoft.
Or write your own.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: Getting used to Linux
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 15:47:10 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, drsquare
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Sat, 16 Jun 2001 13:44:20 +0100
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>On 15 Jun 2001 19:38:14 -0700, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (tom@nowhere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, drsquare says...
>
>>>And for important things, like stability, efficiency, and
>>>functionality, windows remains a few generations behind linux.
>>
>>I think win2k is very stable. Are you saying that win2k stability is
>>few generations behind linux?
>
>win2k? Sorry, but I'm just an average user who wants to surf the web,
>write a few documents etc, and therefore I am left with what's
>preinstalled: winME. I don't know what an OS is, let alone how to get
>win2k.
Copies of a Win2k package were at one point available at various
computer supermarkets. (I don't know if it was Regular
or Extra Upgrade. :-) ) This would take care of acquiring win2k,
if one had the money, of course. And Win2k does seem to be very stable.
But Linux is a very good alternative, and may be even more stable.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
EAC code #191 0d:11h:43m actually running Linux.
Linux. The choice of a GNU generation.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dennis Ritchie -- He Created Unix, But Now Uses Microsoft Windows
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 16:46:01 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, drsquare wrote:
>On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 22:49:44 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
>>drsquare wrote:
>>
>>>> I've just downloaded that, and I'll install it when I can get all the
>>> dependencies and conflicts worked out. That's the good thing about
>>> Windows, you just download the installation programs and install it,
>>> you don't have to bother about all the dependencies and package
>>> conflicts etc.
>>
>>Unless the installation program replaces some key Windows DLLs
>>or mungs some Registry entry.
>
>Never happened with me. Every single program I've downloaded (and
>that's a LOT) has installed flawlessly. With Linux, I'm lucky if it
>installs at all, and that's AFTER downloading all the packages and
>dealing with all the conflicts. And if you're compiling from source,
>you may as well just not bother.
I spent about 4 hours on the phone recently with a user, talking them
through downloading some strange foundation classes library; the
package they'd downloaded failed with the most arcane error message
I've had to listen to. I web searched and found a stack of sites on
the internet specialising in having a huge range of downloads available
to get windows packages working.
I then had to talk him through making a backup copy of the library
incase the thing failed, rebooting into 'dos' mode, copying the
new file over the old one in the system directory, and then rebooting
back into 'windows' mode. What a nightmare.
The linux version just installed and worked, what's more, it contained
dependency info built it, in case there was a problem, so that it could
be easily sorted, unlike the mess that was windows.
Now why do those sites exist, I wonder?
--
Mark Kent
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Sims)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell"
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 15:40:34 GMT
On 16 Jun 2001 05:26:12 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tim Smith) wrote:
>The way Microsoft solved DLL Hell in Win2K is by not allowing X or Y to
>install a new foo.dll into the system directories. Instead, X installs
>foo.dll 1.1 in X's directory, and Y installs foo.dll 1.2 in Y's
>directory. X and Y each use the one they installed, so everyone is
>theoretically happy. Of course, this won't always work, but it is
>usually a vast improvement.
Any links or FAQs as to how this works exactly? I'm curious. Does
this depend on the application playing along (i.e. does it require the
application to use Windows Installer, etc.). If I take 2 or 3 old
Win32 apps (designed originally to run under Win9x) that I know have
conflicts, is Win2K smart enough to intercept the installers and
redirect the *.DLL's to different locations?
Just curious...
=====================================================================
Michael Sims
mhsims at midsouth dot rr dot com
"The beatings will continue until morale improves."
=====================================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark)
Subject: Re: Dennis Ritchie -- He Created Unix, But Now Uses Microsoft Windows
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 16:48:26 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <9gbjlh$8dd01$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Nigel Feltham wrote:
>> with it. Last but not least is windows the most used OS in companies (as
>> desktop OS), so if you work with an windows client in your job, you want
>> to work with it at home, too.
>>
>
>Not true - I use windows in my job and this is one of the reasons I use
>Linux at home. If I am forced to use unreliable crap at work then why would
>I want to work with it at home as well.
>
>
Most of my colleagues hate windows because we have to use it at work.
For those who do use computers at home, windows is at the bottom of the
list, just after putting your head in the meat grinder as evening
entertainement.
--
Mark Kent
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Linux wins again....
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 16:01:46 +0200
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Rex Ballard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
[snip]
> Again, reading between the lines shows even more dramatic differences.
> It would have been interesting to see Windows 2000, Linux 2.4.3 and
> then show Solaris 8 and Linux 2.4.3 on Sparc Hardware. Even I'm not
> sure
> how those two tests would go.
Well I use Solaris 2.8 and Linux 2.4.5 (also used 2.2.x and earlier
versions of 2.4.x) on sparc Ultra-5's and Ultra-10's at work. Disk IO
on Linux (ext2) is much much faster than the standard file system on
Solaris. My conclusion, having run both OS's on desktop sparc systems,
is that Linux is far faster. In fact even accessing a DAT drive under
Solaris causes the system to crawl on a desktop sparc machine. Linux
on sparc is not ready for server use though. It is still quite
unstable and my Linux machines will often lock up completely after a
couple of weeks running.
I wish Sun would support Linux more. They virtually give Solaris away
now and the source code is available for little cost so its not a big
money maker for them. I run Debian on sparc and the number of packages
available is much higher than for Solaris. If I need something I just
run 'apt-get install package' and its available. And doing an 'apt-get
update; apt-get upgrade' means I get the latest security fixes as well.
--
Over 100 security bugs in Microsoft SW last year. An infamous
record. The worst offending piece of SW, by far, IIS. 2001 isn't
looking any better.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: MSnbc calls MS on MS's FUD campain!
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 16:20:09 +0200
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Linux Admin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> MSnbc (remember what the MS stands for) shines a light on MS FUD!
>
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/587140.asp?cp1=1
Excellent article. This bit was amusing:
'One of them, in fact, has been Microsoft itself. The company's Hotmail
free e-mail service for years used the FreeBSD operating system and
the Apache Web server, both Leading open-source programs. After buying
Hotmail in 1997, Microsoft tried to replace FreeBSD with its own
Windows software. Hotmail insiders said the company found Windows
couldn't handle the heavy load, something Microsoft at the time
declined to discuss. Wednesday, Microsoft said that since last summer,
Hotmail has been running on both Windows 2000 and the Solaris
operating system from Sun Microsystems Inc.'
So even msnbc say MS tried to replace FreeBSD with NT. :-)
--
Over 100 security bugs in Microsoft SW last year. An infamous
record. The worst offending piece of SW, by far, IIS. 2001 isn't
looking any better.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Microsoft Security Bulletin MS01-032 : SQL Query Method Enables Cached
Administrator Connection to be Reused
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 16:53:10 +0200
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>>
>> Matt, if you want to get into a pissing match about bugs, thats your
>> perogative, but all products have them, and the 60 or so security patches
>> for Red Hat 7.0 are a good example.
>>
>>
>
> Hehehe... I thought I heard heavy feet stomping toward this post!
Yup, EF is counting linux security bugs this year to get back at my .sig. :-)
Of course he's wasting his time as I'm sure bugtraq will release the stats
early next year as well. MS are having a hard time. 3 patches, so far, to fix,
maybe, one bug plus seven (or was it 10) for their telnet server. Me thinks
EF should keep a low low profile instead of trying to defend MS' appalling
security record.
--
Over 100 security bugs in Microsoft SW last year. An infamous
record. The worst offending piece of SW, by far, IIS. 2001 isn't
looking any better.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 11:51:56 -0400
jet wrote:
>
> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > jet wrote:
> > >
> > > Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > "You've got MALE.. sex organs!" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Translation:
> > > > >
> > > > > AARON is a closet homosexual, which is why he makes such a big deal
> > > > > about trying to distance himself from it.
> > > >
> > > > Oh yes, the old fag "anyone who opposes us is secretly one of us"
> routine.
> > > >
> > > > There's a reason nobody ever believes that, fag..
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Perhaps this is why he never gets any sex.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I do...with WOMEN.
> > >
> > > What does your mail order bride think about you having sex with WOMEN?
> >
> > False premise.
>
> YOU are the one who says you get sex with WOMEN. (See above.) Were you
> lying?
The false premise is in the OTHER half of your sentance, shit-for-brains
>
> J
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush.limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 11:52:27 -0400
jet wrote:
>
> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > jet wrote:
> > >
> > > Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Rick wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Fernandinande Le Mur wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:13:19 -0700, GreyCloud
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > expounded:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > <If I recall right, San Francisco was notorious for gay
> bathhouses
> > > that
> > > > > > > <ran all night.
> > > > > > > <When aids became a problem, most of the bathhouses shutdown. I
> > > suspect
> > > > > > > <that this helped in reducing the spread of aids some. Then
> public
> > > > > > > <education on tv started via commercials, but the aids has
> gotten
> > > into
> > > > > > > <every sector of life its starting to blur the lines. Africa,
> at
> > > least
> > > > > > > <what we've been spoon fed on the news, is suffering heavily
> from
> > > aids.
> > > > > > > <Not exactly sure what their real problem is over there. The
> news
> > > is
> > > > > > > <sort of vague about it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The popmedia is dishonest about reporting on AIDS in Africa
> because
> > > > > > > they don't want to burst the bubble that AIDS is a threat to the
> > > > > > > general population, rather than just to some specific
> sub-groups.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > About a year ago Scientific American had a fairly PC article
> about
> > > > > > > AIDS in Africa and blamed rampant prostitution combined with
> sexual
> > > > > > > practices which cause small amounts of bleeding ("dry sex", or
> women
> > > > > > > putting sand, baboon urine and such in their vaginas before
> > > fucking -
> > > > > > > no, I'm not kidding). In other words, the AIDS epidemic in
> Africa
> > > > > > > is the result of the sexual behavior of the victims.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yep.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With modern screening in the blood supply (i.e. source of
> > > transfusions),
> > > > > > in this day and age, the ONLY way to get AIDS is to behave like a
> > > MORON.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > You claim to have sex with multiple partners. I guess you are a
> moron.
> > > >
> > > > It takes more than that for a 100% heterosexual man.
> > >
> > > What does your mail order bride think about your playing around? Guess
> the
> > > whore is worried she'll get shipped back to Russia if she speaks up,
> huh?
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Are you implying that I nail people inside wooden crates and then
> > transport them down to the post office?
>
> No, stupid, I'm implying you use the FedEx People pack. :)
>
> http://www.brknews.com/news/fedex.html
And you're STUPID enough to believe that this is a real service.
>
> >
> > Based on the above, It's quite obvious that you can't form rational
> statements.
> >
> > *PLONK*
>
> Translation: you painted yourself into a corner, and I called you on it.
>
> J
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: Rotten168 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 15:56:49 GMT
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
> Having read your next post, I think your ideas about libertarians are
> different too, so forget what I said since it doesn't make sense.
>
> -Ed
I'm almost 100% positive that libertarians in England mean the same
thing as libertarians in America. The libertarian party is an
international party after all.
--
- Brent
"General Veer, prepare your underpants for ground assault."
- Darth Vader
http://rotten168.home.att.net
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: IBM Goes Gay
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 15:57:50 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Peter Hayes
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:48:17 +0100
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:02:27 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The
>Ghost In The Machine) wrote:
>
>> I never did get to work on the 6809. The 68000 isn't bad, but came
>> out late -- but it was reasonable and had 32-bit addressing logically,
>> if not physically
>
>The nearest I got to the 68000 was a Texas Instruments TI44/A (IIRC) that
>was thrown out. Sadly, I never really got it going properly, there was some
>hardware problem and I eventually chucked it.
>
>The Sinclair QL had a version of the 68000, but, like IBM, they picked the
>low cost version that had an 8-bit bus instead of the 16-bit version,
>thereby more or less destroying the benefits of the 68000.
>
>I bought a book on the 68000, still got it, seemed a nice chip.
Indeed.
Its main flaw -- if it has one at all -- is that it decided to go with
two sets of registers (A0-A7, D0-D7) rather than one big happy
general-purpose register set. And it's not that much of a flaw,
compared to certain other processors. :-)
Heck, the Apollo DOMAIN was based on it [*], for most of its life (the
88000 being an interesting exception). One of the nicer computers
to work with, at the time.
>
>> So how did we all get stuck with that incredible piece of bodgework,
>> the 8088?
>
>It really is, isn't it.
Indeed. Lessee, is [CX] legal? How about offset[BP]? And let's
not even get started on those strange offshoots from wherever,
the segment registers, or things like JCXZ.
The 80286 added some additional modes, I think, but the 8086
is really ... well ... crap. The 386 at least gave us Linux,
though (as well as a 32-bit flat address space), so it's not all bad. :-)
But it's bizarre how it became the standard for an entire industry.
>
>> Blecch. I hope IBM can make up for that by heavily promoting Linux... :-)
>
>They sure owe us.
I suppose so, admittedly, given this 8086 botchup and their predilection
for monopolization of mainframe markets. :-)
>
>Peter
[*] actually, since the 68000 didn't have virtual memory, there was
quite a bit of work behind the scenes -- the processor boards,
that is -- which included among a lot of other things a
second 68000 and a Z80 chip.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
EAC code #191 1d:14h:06m actually running Linux.
[ ] Check here to always trust monopolistic software.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
From: Tim Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 15:58:19 GMT
in article oIJW6.2891$[EMAIL PROTECTED], Daniel
Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 6/16/01 10:05 AM:
> "Tim Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> in article PHwW6.2113$[EMAIL PROTECTED],
> Daniel
>> Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 6/15/01 7:17 PM:
> [snip]
>>> That is what happens when you view a web page. It is downloaded
>>> to your computer, and displayed. It is the same way with PDF.
>>
>> Not really so. A web page is opened and displayed with a browser.
>
> Yes.
>
>> The PFD file is opened with a PDF reader application. different animals.
>
> No. Adobe Acrobat reader for Windows opens them in the same
> browser window you used to navigate there- just like a web
> page.
>
> Thought strictly speaking neither the PDF viewer nor the
> HTML renderer are 'applications'.
>
> [snip]
>>>> which would merely displays the _file on my screen_ NOT a web page.
>>>
>>> A web page *is* a file, you know. It's not the same format
>>> as PDF, but it's still a file.
>>
>> Certainly both are files. Handled differently by different applications.
>
> Sort of. Does that mean that if I view your page with
> Internet Explorer, it is a web page, but if I view it with
> Netscape, it is not? Different applications, after all.
Both Web browsers however. Since when has the Acrobat reader (application OR
plugin) become a browser?
>
> [snip]
>>> That is not from the page whose URL is included
>>> at the top of this message; it is from a previous page
>>> which I refered to. This previous page is, indeed, in
>>> HTML.
>>
>> READ the line just below the word snip up above. YOU agreed that that page
>> WAS a PDF file ("Sure it was.") and now you say it isn't. Can't make up
>> your mind or what?
>
> As I said, we are talking of two different files, and
> one is a PDF- the other isn't.
>
> It's not that hard, really.
>
> [snip]
>> I have yet to see a web page that is a PDF. As I stated before, using a
> plug
>> in to display a _normally_ downloaded file doesn't make that file a web
>> page.
>
> PDF does support progressive display, just like HTML. It
> really does owrk the same way.
>
>> Not everybody adds all the plugins in the world you know. I removed my
> Adobe
>> one just so I wouldn't keep seeing files online.
>
> You can get away with that better than you could
> get away with building a PDF only browser that
> does not understand HTML. That's because of
> the popularity difference between the formats.
Maybe because there are no PDF web pages to look at if such a browser were
written.
>
> It is not because of some fundamental underlying
> difference.
>
>> So, once again I ask, show me a PDF web page. Something that opens in
>> Netscape OR IE, or Omni Web or icab, no plugins required.
>
> Hmm.. Would you argue that a web page with tables is not
> really a web page, because not all browsers can display it
> properly?
No because html has grown up (html2, xml etc.) and features have been added
BUT the browsers might not be updated to work with all these new features.
Should we base all web pages on what Netscape version 1.0 displayed only?
>
> If you are just arguing that HTML has more widespread
> support than PDF, then I agree- but I consider it irrelevant.
>
> [snip]
>>> It sounds to me like you just *define* "web page" to mean
>>> "HTML file"; I think that's far too narrow. Web pages are
>>> a user interface artifact; they are the things you see
>>> in your browser. They do *not* have to be HTML.
>>
>> So show me a PDF web page that display in MY browser!
>
> I am not responsible for the deficiencies of your
> browser.
Which are? If I don't add a plugin to view thing onscreen within a browser
(IE / Netscape/ whatever) does that mean my browser is not a fully
functioning browser?
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: Rotten168 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 16:02:16 GMT
"~¿~" wrote:
>
> "Stephen S. Edwards II" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:cSgW6.1273$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > I've heard all of the arguments:
> >
> > "Pot isn't a drug, it's an herb!"
>
> It is an herb. It grows in the wild
> It requires no adulteration other than to cut it and let it dry.
Marijuana requires that the plant (hemp) be sexed and separated, and
what makes the hemp be pot and not hemp is a female plant that is not
fertilized with the male seed. Remember that hemp used to be used for
all kinds of things and it was not smokable.
--
- Brent
"General Veer, prepare your underpants for ground assault."
- Darth Vader
http://rotten168.home.att.net
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 19:01:51 +0200
"Tim Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Both Web browsers however. Since when has the Acrobat reader (application
OR
> plugin) become a browser?
Word can double as a web browser, so can almost any web design application
that I've seen.
------------------------------
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