On Tuesday 30 September 2008, Lennart Poettering wrote: >On Tue, 30.09.08 11:19, Gene Heskett ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: >> >> we're battling with M$, a generally futile endeavor, and that is >> >> gonna lead to a lot of profanity & name calling. This is after >> >> all, linux, where choice is a talking point. >> > >> >Hi Gene, I think that the complaint should be aimed at distributions, >> >really. If they choose to ship foo they should make sure it works. >> >Which they tend to do to some (large) extent. >> >> In the case of Fedora, no, the buck stops there, and I'm made to be the >> bad-ass. It looks to me as if they are deliberately shielding the >> developers, or maybe they are locked in a closet off the lunch room living >> on scraps? > >This is utter nonsense. > >There are probably no companies that are more open about what their >developers do than Red Hat. Most of us have blogs where it is very >simple to follow what we do. And most of the time they are syndicated >all around the net. Almost all our development happens upstream and >can be followed in git repos and stuff. We attend conferences where we >explain what is going on -- and a lot of them. I post regularly on >mailing lists like this one. We hang around on IRC almost our entire >work time. > >If you call us shielded off then I wonder what you'd call everyone >else. > >> I dunno. What I did come away with was that I was on my own, and that PA >> simply ignored the 8 line stanza in my modprobe.conf that makes it all >> Just Work when PA is prevented from screwing with things. > >ALSA device indexes are not stable anymore, they depend on the driver >initialization order during boot time which is not deterministic >anymore, since this happens in parallel now.
Which explains that, thanks. >That's why PA ignores >them and uses HAL UDIs for identifying audio devices instead. (I >assume that you are referring to the device indexes when you talk >about modprobe.conf). Essentially, yes. Although I don't recall that randomness has ever reared it head here, running F8, and always a bleeding edge kernel, 2.6.27-rc7-4 ATM. Can modprobe.conf be trained to use these HAL UDI's? >> Without any meaningful docs on how to go about configuring it, if indeed >> it is configurable, the easiest thing to do is remove as much of it as >> possible without nukeing kde itself. > >There are quite a bit of docs out there. Just check out >http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/Documentation. > >> >In the past all of us had to realize that the minute we wanted to >> >deviate from what a distribution considered to be a "standard system" >> >(like in your case 2 sound devices) we were pretty much on our own. >> >> Yes, that is a given. But in order to do this intelligently, there must >> be docs of the 'this does that effect' in existence. Apparently there are >> none or URL's would have been offered. And now they have been. This msg marked important so kmail won't expire it, and I'll certainly check them out when I get the video's poor performance in hand. The R600 ATI chipset support has no acceleration written yet. >How would you like to have them offered? Maybe home delivered as printed >books? Would that suit you? Don't be silly. Just a simple 'man pulseaudio' should bring up a URL or two at the bottom for questions not answered above in the man pages. >Have you ever tried to go to "pulseaudio.org" if you had a question? >Have you ever tried this thing called "Google"? It's a so called >"search engine" that helps you find things when you don't know where >to look. It's pretty hot stuff! ISTR I did wind up there once, and it required I setup yet another account, complete with passwords etc before I could post. I must have 30 of them things now & the wall is covered with cryptic postits I can no longer remember what site the noted username & password belong to. CRS reigns supreme for disagreeable tasks. As for google, the most common advice I got from there was to nuke it. Now I'm starting all over with a new motherboard, with a much better 8 channel audio system, so I might retire the Creative SB0400, Audigy2 and forget about skype & see if I can make it now work. vz has all the other servers blocked anyway, so I can never get a confirmation email from any of them except skype, and as that was 2 years ago, I expect its history now. vz can't stand the competition I guess. >> >So I think there is a huge demand for more and better integration on >> >the distribution side, for user tools to make not-so-standard stuff >> >just work as well. Which is A Lot Of Work, right? We'll get there, >> >slowly, I'm sure. >> >> Probably, and at about the same pace as NM moves, which is glacial. >> Dumbassed typo's fixing takes a year to make it from patch submission to >> distro included. That, when it effects 90% of the users, should be a >> week. Max. > >Assuming that you mean NetworkManager by "NM": you are underestimating >how much integration work this actually is. The kernel-userspace >interfaces for networking have been total chaos in the past. And it is >getting better. Much better. Fixing a typu should not require 6 months of testing. I have always been able to edit the correct ethx file in /etc/sysconfig/networking and make it work here, totally inhouse fixed addressing. I use dd-wrt to make the network connection, running on an old x86 box, headless, driveless. So NM is a solution looking for a problem to fix that doesn't exist here. >And in the end: stop complaining! If you think we are incompetent >morons, then scratch your own itches and give something back for all >the apparently crappy stuff we happily give to you for free. Were I 20 years younger, which would put me in my mid-50's when I was carving machine code for 8 bit machines, I most certainly would. But at 74, I find I'm doing a lot of stuff in bash only. I'm not fully groking the new c99 syntax, its a far cry from either of my K&R Ansi C manuals. >Thanks, > >Lennart Thank you, Lennart. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Voiceless it cries, Wingless flutters, Toothless bites, Mouthless mutters. _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev