but since my own efforts are being drawn into the argument now, i feel it's time to sound off:
Marek Peteraj wrote:
On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 11:01, Daniel James wrote:
It's true that I did initiate the arrangement whereby the Linux audio community gets representation at a major UK audio industry trade show,
Suddenly you're now speaking as the representative of the whole Linux audio community. But you're not. Neither am I. The only true representatives of the Linux Audio community are the Linux Audio Developers.
marek, please: it's time to shut up.
i too have been speaking as a representative of the linux audio community on various occasions. frank neumann has even been so bold as to organize a trade show booth in the name of the linux audio community. matthias nagorni is just now and in front of everyone's eyes committing the heinous atrocity of organizing a conference in the name of the linux audio community.
none of us has obtained anyone's mandate, none of us has discussed everything we do on this list up to the point of consensus.
SO WHAT?????
there is no such thing as a linux audio community, except for *what people do*. so daniel is as much part of it as you and i.
this list is just a list. a means of communication. it's great at times, and sometimes it's not. as pointed out before, not even everyone interested in linux audio uses it.
nowhere on the whole wide web will you find a clear definition of what the linux audio community is and who can speak for it. and you are not going to define it either by continous nit-picking at the efforts of others.
linux audio is what people do with it. that's what free software communities are about. if somebody tries to put an organisation together to provide a new forum for exchange with (shudder ;) commercial developers, that can only enrich the community. if it works, great, if it fails, so what?
nobody is going to take all the code away from you (thanks to the gpl - chapeau, mr. stallman!), nobody is going to take all the contributors of the community away. where is the problem?
there have been some valid points of criticism on how david is organizing and presenting his effort. i'm sure these can and should be discussed. but there is absolutely and utterly no point in bashing peoples' heads in for working free-of-charge towards what they believe will be for the good of linux audio.
be pragmatic: if the linuxaudio.org effort is worth crap, then it's going to die a good and honest open-source death. if it prospers, then it will add another facet to the linux audio community. but how could it really endanger or take away anything that the community already has?
the only thing i see endangered here is the atmosphere of mutual respect that has been one of the pillars of this mailing list.
if you fear fragmentation of the community, well, that too is part of the game. projects are forked, forks are healed, projects succeed and die, communities form and disperse themselves. no harm in voicing your fear of fragmentation, but why attack people and discredit their efforts?
excuse me for ranting, but i too have invested a lot of free time *and* money to advocate linux audio and the linux audio community. i want to continue to do this *as i see fit*, to the best of my knowledge, and i certainly do not want to face a stupid public tribunal such as this in return for my efforts.
in my view, david first of all deserves a huge cheer for a new idea and a lot of work, and then we can discuss the points that were subject to criticism.
this whole thread sadly reminds me again of the zynaddsubfx flamewar about the weird jesus clause its author had on his website. well, above all, imnsho, if some new thing comes with strings attached that do not suit you, just ignore it. you haven't lost anything, and nothing is being taken away from you. it's an offer, after all.
on the basis that we will be offering free advice and information rather than a sales pitch. The organisers have agreed to give us the stand at cost, which they didn't have to do.
So how is that different from LinuxTag or ZKM? Again, what are we trying to promote? The only thing we should promote right now are the Linux Audio applications. Companies have resources to promote themselves. And it makes no sense to promote Linux Audio Users at such event.
The problem is - Frank, Joern, Matthias were doing a great job organising events and helping the Linux Audio Developers to promote their open source Linux Audio applications. They never called themselves the directors of LAD.
nor does david. he stepped in as director of linuxaudio.org to get a ball rolling. just as matthias and frank "usurped" the role of conference organizers. *to*get*something*done* !
if you consider some of his actions bad style, then fine, but show some style yourself when offering criticism.
I see ZKM as a very important event simply because it's growing into a
larger conference, an event solely aimed at Linux Audio, an event that
will be aimed at both Linux Audio Developers and Linux Audio Users this
year. A place where the developers, journalists and music industry can
meet each other.
I think such an event is much more important than any stand.
both stands *and* meetings are nice and have become and important part of the community. what's your point?
Don't get me wrong. I apreciate that you're organising an event. But it's an event just like the other events. In no way is it more important than the others. http://www.linuxdj.com/audio/lad/events.php3
excuse me, but it takes a lot of goodwill to read "appreciation" into any of your postings lately.
scratching my head,
jörn
(btw, just to make it clear: while i happen to be the list admin atm, this is my *personal* opinion, and it does not in anyway reflect list policy or some hazy "community pov". i have always tried to keep the two well separated, and i intend to continue doing so.)
-- "I never use EQ, never, never, never. I previously used to use mic positioning but I've even given up on that too." - Jezar on http://www.audiomelody.com
Jörn Nettingsmeier Kurfürstenstr 49, 45138 Essen, Germany http://spunk.dnsalias.org (my server) http://www.linuxaudiodev.org (Linux Audio Developers)
