Greetings Kenneth,
 
I completely agree with the concept of companies desiring to hire individuals with the capability to deliver systems or software solutions ("talent") over someone simply bearing relevant credentials; that makes sense, especially when the integrity of a credential has been compromised. Pragmatically speaking, companies use the credentials for an initial benchmark of talent. I have personally met (and had discourse at length) with every one of the heads of Microsoft's training and education departments and am quite familiar with their operations and philosophy. Their specific intent with the MCP family of credentials is to provide some level of benchmarking of ability (talent). Their ability to map their credential more directly to levels of talent is limited by the fact that the testing is "paper-based" and that the politics of changing that standard is a non-starter because that would slow the influx of MCP's into the market place and ultimately conflict with Microsoft's more fundamental goal of selling software. In terms of the credential's directly mapping to "talent" (which, I believe we can all agree would be a good thing) they have a perceived (and perhaps real) conflict of interest.
 
On a slightly separate note, Microsoft, Cisco, Oracle and SUN rely heavily on credentialing as a preliminary filter when hiring for networking positions; i.e.. apply for a networking relevant job at Microsoft and you will quickly discover as a RULE (to which there are, of course, exceptions) Microsoft's selects talent from among the MCSE applicants. Other major vendors, as mentioned above, use the same practice as do I. My rational is simple. If you are truly talented, surely you can successfully navigate the relevant test. Notice I used the verbiage "networking" positions; programming credentials (MCSD, Sybase etc...) are not as mature and prevalent as the networking credentials, and the practice I described above is not quite as prevalent.....yet.  
 
Some credentials quite directly indicate high levels of competency. Among these are the CCIE, and in my opinion having recently taken the class and test, the RHCE. The CCIE is "just" a credential, but I would challenge you to show me a CCIE who is not *highly talented* and knowledgeable in Cisco platform design, implementation and management. Having directly compared it with many other industry credentials, (and while I will not go into any specifics because I am under non-disclosure) I would submit that in general Red Hat's RHCE is also a reliable metric of both Red Hat and GENERAL Linux implementation proficiency. Because of its practical component, it is unlikely to be easily compromised. I would point out that this is not Red Hat's tier three or four credential, this is the opening ante in their credentialing track. Like it or not, LPI's credentials (and manufacturers like Caldera who have adopted them) will be competing with that benchmark level. With that, I will now quit beating this dead horse. If it pragmatically must be "paper-based" for now, I will endeavor to assist in the development of the best one possible.
 
 
 
Thank You,
 
 
Stephen Holcomb
 
PS. Kenneth, GREAT ASCII art!! ; )
 
 
 
 
 
----Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 7:48 AM
Subject: Hiring talent and not Certificates....

I have made some rather pointed remarks about recertification and would like to open another thread with a little different twist.

All of the Companies that I would want to work for hire "TALENT" not certificates... So a certification really does not hold a lot of water, it is just an indicator of the talented person's commitment to that subject area.

Microsoft does not hire MCSE's. Why do you think that is? They hire talent! That is what has created the company today. Agree or not with Microsoft's direction they are still, and will be for a while, the dominating force in the commercial computing world.

With the advent of Linux coupled with all the GNU tools, that have been developed over a number of years, we could be entering into another level in computing in the commercial market. Microsoft created the MCSE and the market for it. Do we have to follow suit? Or is their maybe a better, more elegant, solution to hiring talented people?

I don't know the answers, but I do know there has to be a better way then "certification" or at least a very different approach to certification.

Let me know if I'm just an idealist or if we can actually change and "think outside the box"!

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              /<      Ken Lund (Goomba)
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