Linux-Development-Sys Digest #234, Volume #6 Thu, 7 Jan 99 23:14:34 EST
Contents:
Re: GUI, The Next Generation (Derek B. Noonburg)
Re: Why I'm dumping Linux, going back to Windblows (Joel Keating)
small fonts on tty (Helge Stahlmann)
Re: Unresolved symbols in ufs.o (David Ronis)
Re: linux in embedded system (Eric Hegstrom)
Re: Tuning Semaphores and Shared Memory parameters in Slackware Linux 2.0.35 (Jens
Brauckhoff)
2.2.0-pre5 problem with ip_masq.c (Bryan Franklin)
Re: disheartened gnome developer ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: disheartened gnome developer (Frank Sweetser)
Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea (Andrew Morton)
Re: Why I'm dumping Linux, going back to Windblows (Neil Radisch)
Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea (Frank Sweetser)
Re: Can't reboot at root from "xdm" ("Colin F. Caughie")
Re: 2.0.36 sensitive to long SCSI bus? (Mike Lincoln)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Derek B. Noonburg)
Subject: Re: GUI, The Next Generation
Date: 7 Jan 1999 00:42:02 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> m> required. Mice, yuck! I would love to see light pens.
>
> You really want to sit at your computer with your hand up against the screen
> all day? Donīt complain about the muscle aches then...
>
> Ok, you could mount the screen into the table so it feels like a piece of
> paper lying in front of you. But I guess this gives just another kind of
> strain, this time it might be your back, that aches after some time...
Tip it up like an artist's or drafter's table.
What would be really cool is a desk-sized LCD, mounted at an angle
like this. Just imagine being able to have several different manuals,
editor windows, web browser windows, ... all simultaneously visible.
- Derek
------------------------------
From: Joel Keating <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Why I'm dumping Linux, going back to Windblows
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 16:27:50 -0600
I am going back to windows also. Now before everyone starts saying blah blah
you don't understand and gets on their soap box let me give you some
background. I completely understand linux, have ran it for past 3 years,
currently am Solaris admin. Back in the old days, when i actually had time to
program and hack around Linux was _the_ OS. Now that most of my day is spend
at work fixing Unix related problems I have no time/energy and sometimes even
desire, to program, sniff. I have Linux still on my computer but over the last
month or so I have booted in less and less and less. I am at the point now of
just about ready to completely blow out linux partition and format fat32, but
that might not happen. Anyways, the one reason i like windows is that there is
soo much software written for it. Yes i know, i can write my own software to
do just about anyting i want my computer to do, but (see above). The simple
fact is that if it wasn't for windows, windows would be an excellent OS. I
mean, the OS sucks, unstable and all that other shit that goes along with
windows, including no berkeley sockets :). But there is so much wonderful
software written for windows that I have no choice but to keep using it. And
besides, my fingers are getting too arthritic to type, i'll just keep my tongue
on my mouse and it will be fine in windows.
++Joel
Terrance Hodgins wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> says...
>
> >I agree completely, UNIX and LINUX do not have the ease of config.
> >that WINXX does. I personally feel that the speed and stability far
> >outweighs that one point, plus what I have learned using LINUX about
> >computer hardware and software is incredible and could never have
> >happened using MS products. It seems to me this person feels ease of
> >use is the most important thing, and for him, at this point anyways, LINUX
> >isn't fulfilling that expectation. There isn't a problem with that, but
> don
> >'t
> >condem UNIX's for that one thing and remember that what seems like
> >needless configurations to you is what really turns other people onto this
> >OS, and also enables this OS to perform tasks that MS products only
> >wish they could do.
> >
> >Just my 2 cents,
> >
> >Roger
>
> I agree completely.
> The real problem is, I think a bunch of us programmers really have
> to work on the user interface, and get it "cute". And easier
> for non-system-administrator types to work.
>
> Microsoft has gone off of the deep end, and is lost. I hear all of
> my friends complaining about how incredibly hard and confusing it
> is to manage Win95 or Win98, and Win NT 5.0 isn't even working yet.
> The release of Win NT 5 is over a year overdue, and may never happen,
> Really. It's called "unstructured programming". And it eventually
> turns into such a tangled can of worms that it is impossible to
> figure out.
>
> My favorite software horror story is IBM, and a networking
> software project where they had 35,000 programmers jamming on it.
> It never got done. NEVER. IBM blew it off as a loss.
> I could have told them that.
> You can't even read the email of 35000 other programmers in a day.
> If it can't be written by 100 programmers, then forget it.
> Mind you, they have to be very good, and they can have assistants,
> but still, the whole thing has to be structured for very few
> people really putting it together.
>
> If you can't separate out the sections of the system, and
> compartmentalize stuff, then you are dead in big projects.
>
> Unix, and Linux, or NetBSD, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, pick your flavor,
> have the advantage of having a clearly defined kernel, and
> an over-all structure. And Open Source! That is such a huge
> advantage that it is another whole ball game.
>
> If all of my friends are complaining about Win95 and 98 being so
> complex, why not have them bitching out Linux instead?
>
> I mean, really. Two of my closest friends are watching my attempts
> to download and work some version of Linux, because if I can make
> it work, they will switch. They are so totally fed up with
> GPF 13 and all of that stuff. And Windoze in general.
>
> I think we are on the edge of another tidal wave here, friends.
> All we need is a cute GUI interface for the people who aren't
> the High Priests who are privy to the innermost secrets....
>
> Make installation easier, and system management easier, and
> we are home free.
>
> Think about how many new computers were sold because of Netscape.
> !Many Millions! Why? Because Netscape is actually so easy to use.
>
> I, personally, introduced a girl who knew absolutely nothing about
> computers to Netscape, by saying,
>
> "See this thing? It's a mouse.
> You move it, and see how the arrow on the screen moves around?
> When the arrow turns into a hand, then that's someplace you can go.
> You can go to Switzerland, or Japan, or the USA, it doesn't matter.
> No long distance charges."
>
> And she asked, "But will I hurt anything?"
>
> "Nope, you can't. Have fun"
>
> So she played for several hours straight, and then said,
> "This is Wonderful! I've just got to get a computer!"
>
> So actually, Microsoft owes Netscape for all
> of those sales of Windows XX that were installed on the
> new machines that those Netscape lovers bought.
>
> And us guys who are better at programming really need to be
> thinking about the GUI.
>
> There are only about 6 things needed to destroy Microsoft:
>
> 1.) Easy GUI on Linux (sort of there, depends on what you're talking about
> Xwindows is great, but it is not working on everthing.)
> 2.) Easy install.
> 3.) Easy System administration. (This is a giant can of worms.)
> 4.) Good DosEmu (apparently, from what I hear, done.)
> 5.) Good Windoze 3.11 emulation ( done? I hear it's good.)
> 6.) Good Windoze 95 emulation (still in the works. Presently, sucks.)
>
> --
> * Terrance Hodgins *
> * Willamette Web Weavers *
> * [EMAIL PROTECTED] *
> * http://www.navi.net/~weave/ *
--
Joel Keating
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Reality leaves alot to the imagination" - John Lennon
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Helge Stahlmann)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: small fonts on tty
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 19:44:47 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Does anybody know how to set up smaller vga fonts on a linux terminal?
The standard 16*8 fonts are much too big on my 19" display.
Helge
------------------------------
From: David Ronis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Unresolved symbols in ufs.o
Date: 7 Jan 1999 07:13:17 GMT
The problem has disappeared in 2.2.0-pre5.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 17:44:40 -0700
From: Eric Hegstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: linux in embedded system
Well the real-time Linux project might be a place to start:
http://luz.cs.nmt.edu/~rtlinux/
hope this helps some.
Cheers,
Eric
ggyy wrote:
>
> Does anyone know that how to use Linux in embedded system? I means to burn
> the linux kernel binaries into ROM and then load into RAM after booting. My
> friend is working on Linux and FreeBSD for DVD player and would like to put
> the kernel binaries into the ROM. Hope anyone outthere could help. Thank
> you.
>
> With Best Regards,
> Cheng-Ta Wu,
--
Eric Hegstrom tele: 520-617-0072 x402
Sonoran Scanners, Inc. email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Jens Brauckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Tuning Semaphores and Shared Memory parameters in Slackware Linux 2.0.35
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 08:21:53 +0000
Hi Sudhir,
yet I know no other possibility, than going to
/usr/src/linux/include/... , edit the according includes files and
recompile the kernel. For shared memory the file is ../asm/shmparam.h,
for semaphores this is .../linux/sem.h.
Jens
--
Jens Brauckhoff Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SAP AG
Basis Development Phone : ++49 6227 7 45234
P.O.Box 1461 Fax : ++49 6227 7 43027
69185 Walldorf
Germany
------------------------------
From: Bryan Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: 2.2.0-pre5 problem with ip_masq.c
Date: 7 Jan 1999 07:29:26 GMT
I just tried to compile 2.2.0-pre5 with the same options that I compiled
pre4 with and I get the following errors:
make[3]: Entering directory `/usr/local/src/linux-2.2.0-pre5/net/ipv4'
gcc -D__KERNEL__ -I/usr/src/linux/include -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -O2
-fomit-frame-pointer -pipe -fno-strength-reduce -m486 -malign-loops=2 -malign-jumps=2
-malign-functions=2 -DCPU=586 -DEXPORT_SYMTAB -c ip_masq.c
ip_masq.c: In function `__ip_masq_in_get':
ip_masq.c:544: `IP_MASQ_F_DLOOSE' undeclared (first use this function)
ip_masq.c:544: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
ip_masq.c:544: for each function it appears in.)
ip_masq.c: In function `__ip_masq_out_get':
ip_masq.c:597: `IP_MASQ_F_DLOOSE' undeclared (first use this function)
ip_masq.c: In function `ip_masq_new':
ip_masq.c:869: `IP_MASQ_F_DLOOSE' undeclared (first use this function)
ip_masq.c: In function `ip_fw_masquerade':
ip_masq.c:1173: `IP_MASQ_F_DLOOSE' undeclared (first use this function)
ip_masq.c: In function `ip_fw_demasquerade':
ip_masq.c:1932: `IP_MASQ_F_DLOOSE' undeclared (first use this function)
make[3]: *** [ip_masq.o] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/src/linux-2.2.0-pre5/net/ipv4'
make[2]: *** [first_rule] Error 2
make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/src/linux-2.2.0-pre5/net/ipv4'
make[1]: *** [_subdir_ipv4] Error 2
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/src/linux-2.2.0-pre5/net'
make: *** [_dir_net] Error 2
Upon closer inspection it's obvious that IP_MASQ_F_DLOOSE never gets defined
anywhere. Looks like a chunk of a patch got lost somewhere along the way.
--
Bryan franklin
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: disheartened gnome developer
Date: 7 Jan 1999 17:37:50 -0800
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
> Troll Tech, whatever you or I might think of them, are
> still just a company. Idealism and wishful thinking
> won't alter that or change the constraints that companies
> operate under.
so, are you saying there should be no companies who work for profit??
if eveything is free, companies will close, and there will be no jobs.
is that what you want? no jobs?
this is the free and great capitalist country we live in, where companies
are created to make wealth for its stock holders, to employ people and
to spread the American dream far and wide.
I for sure do not mind, and very happy to pay for my software products,
becuase I know when I do that, I am helping a company make some profit,
which in turn give people money to buy something I might make one day, and
therefor we all prosper and gain wealth and happeniss.
This is why I buy these Linux distrubtions from Fry's where I know the prices
are higher and where I know I can get Linux for free if I wanted to. But I
dont. I want to pay for it.
Look live the American dream.
Bob (call me Bill).
------------------------------
From: Frank Sweetser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: disheartened gnome developer
Date: 07 Jan 1999 21:49:09 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
> >
> > Troll Tech, whatever you or I might think of them, are
> > still just a company. Idealism and wishful thinking
> > won't alter that or change the constraints that companies
> > operate under.
>
> so, are you saying there should be no companies who work for profit??
he's saying that troll tech is a company. how do you get he's
anti-capitalist from that?
> if eveything is free, companies will close, and there will be no jobs.
FUD.
> is that what you want? no jobs?
FUD.
> this is the free and great capitalist country we live in, where companies
> are created to make wealth for its stock holders, to employ people and
> to spread the American dream far and wide.
>
> I for sure do not mind, and very happy to pay for my software products,
> becuase I know when I do that, I am helping a company make some profit,
> which in turn give people money to buy something I might make one day, and
> therefor we all prosper and gain wealth and happeniss.
>
> This is why I buy these Linux distrubtions from Fry's where I know the prices
> are higher and where I know I can get Linux for free if I wanted to. But I
> dont. I want to pay for it.
well, you're free to do that if you like. but before you dump out money,
make sure you're paying for something you really think is worth it.
and don't forget, companies can indeed make money off of completely free
software. redhat makes their product free, and look how much money they're
making. cygnus deals primarily in GNU software, gcc in particular. how do
they do it? they make money off of their *services*, not with vicious
licensing and selling inferior products that require purchasing constant
upgrades with even more expensive licensing.
--
Frank Sweetser rasmusin at wpi.edu fsweetser at blee.net | PGP key available
paramount.ind.wpi.edu RedHat 5.2 kernel 2.2.0pre3 i586 | at public servers
Well, I think Perl should run faster than C. :-)
-- Larry Wall in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: Andrew Morton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 00:28:35 +1100
There is an ACAP implementation!
http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/cyrus/acap/
------------------------------
From: Neil Radisch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Why I'm dumping Linux, going back to Windblows
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 09:06:27 -0500
> 2.) Easy install.
No, not really. Most people just buy pre-made and preconfigured
computers
from companies like Gateway and Dell. Everything is already installed
and ready to go. I think if you can install and configure Windows
from scratch, you could do the same with linux (the latest RedHat
in particular is pretty easy).
> 3.) Easy System administration. (This is a giant can of worms.)
How many home users "administer" their systems?
Most just turn it on, do their work, turn it off.
Neil
------------------------------
From: Frank Sweetser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea
Date: 07 Jan 1999 09:13:00 -0500
George MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > The "Windows Registry" approach is to have a unified database that puts
> > > a common "API" onto both aspects. This is nice for those things that
> > > get fiddled with all the time, but definitely makes *everything* in the
> > > registry as vulnerable as the weakest link in/to the Registry.
> >
> > the best way to keep this seperation (which is a good thing) IMHO is by
> > keeping the config in core. any updates should just be made to the in core
> > copy. a seperate call can then be made to flush the config out (the entire
> > config for files, only diffs for DB, etc).
> >
>
> The apps really don't need to know where the data is, only how to call
> an interface function to get/set values. Ensuring completion of the
> transaction could be a seperate "commit" call, or controled by
> external configuration. Non commited changes could be handled by
> creating a change delta file, that is then applied/merged the next time the
> app runs. There are some interesting ways to do this, that can handle
> multiple concurrent updates from several processes. File locking also
> works but can cause config updates to block, then the calling code
> has to deal with that possibility.
exactly what i was thinking of.
> > > >> I have to admit that the overriding values for local machines will be
> > > >> awkward to implement using the network fs scheme, but I hope to figure
> > > >> out a way of doing it that's quite easy to configure on the backend, and
> > > >> transparent on the client. Maybe write some scripts to help.
> > > >
> > > >simply check the values in /etc/foo.defs, ~/.foocfg, then in /etc/foo.cfg,
> > > >and have the last assigned value take precedence.
> > >
> > > Make sure it is documented clearly how this is to work, so that it is
> > > *CLEAR* which files will be evaluated in what order. The problem with
> > > (in contrast) X resource information is that the order of evaluation is
> > > *not* clear.
> >
> > agreed. it's going to be rather interesting to declare a definitave order
> > or precedence when the information can come from multiple sources, but i
> > suspect any developers would drop it like a hot potatoe otherwise. there's
> > already going to be a certain amount of metadata for each configuration
> > object, so perhaps the precedence could be specified therein.
> >
>
> More stuff for /etc/app.conf ?
>
>
> Note we could later do a sys.conf or daemons.conf,
>
> Maybe it should be store.conf or opStore.conf, hmm
>
> Thoughts?
it should definatelly be a directory, /etc/appconf.d/ a lot of the redhat
systems have been doing this for packages like pam and logrotate. any app
that wants to interface with either of them simply places it's own config
file in the appropriate /etc/ subdir, and the package picks it up and runs
with it. so to get logrotate to work on your custom data file, you simply
need to create /etc/logrotate.d/mylogfile and logrotate will use it. much
easier to use (and esp to automate!!) than having a single config file with
multiple sections.
--
Frank Sweetser rasmusin at wpi.edu fsweetser at blee.net | PGP key available
paramount.ind.wpi.edu RedHat 5.2 kernel 2.2.0pre3 i586 | at public servers
Real theology is always rather shocking to people who already
think they know what they think. I'm still shocked myself. :-)
-- Larry Wall in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: "Colin F. Caughie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Can't reboot at root from "xdm"
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:26:58 -0000
Have you tried the "shutdown" command? Use, for example:
shutdown 0 -r
to shutdown immediately and reboot. (The 0 is the delay in minutes before
shutting down).
Colin
--
Colin Caughie
Indigo Active Vision Systems
Tel: +44 (131) 440 5403
Fax: +44 (131) 440 5401
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jon D. Slater wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>Once I log in as root using an XDM login, I've noticed if I type
>"reboot" or "reboot &" in an xterm my machine does not reboot until I
>press <Alt><Ctrl><F1>, switch to a "text based" screen.
>
>Then the machine (running Redhat 5.2) reboots normally.
>
>Why can't I reboot my machine from within an XDM login session?
>
>Or maybe my question sould be "How do I reboot from an xterm run under
>an XDM login?"
>
>Please send suggestions to: JSlater<at>Qualcomm<dot>Com
>
>Thanks in advance!!
>
>Jon
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 13:21:13 +0000
From: Mike Lincoln <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 2.0.36 sensitive to long SCSI bus?
Doug McClendon wrote:
> Peter Samuelson wrote:
> >
> > [Larry Mulcahy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> > > A week or so (?!?!) after switching from 2.0.35 to 2.0.36, I started
> > > noticing generally laggy behavior, unkillable processes hung on disk
> > > I/O, and repeated console messages like the ones below. My SCSI bus is
> > > kind of long, maybe pushing the limit.
> >
> > When you're discussing apparent kernel bugs, it's helpful to include
> > some details about your system. How many CPUs do you have, and is your
> > kernel compiled SMP? Do you have a lot or a little memory? Exactly
> > what SCSI host adapter(s) do you have? Are you compiling and/or
> > booting with any particular options that would affect your SCSI
> > drivers? (Enabling or disabling tagged queueing, for example.) Does
> > your system have a heavy or light I/O load?
> >
> > Details, man, details.
> >
>
> Different person, same problem, here are some details...
>
> suse53 distribution
> linux 2.0.36 SMP, aic scsi
> adaptec 7995(I think) ultra2 on board (asus p2b) scsi
> 3 quantum atlas 2 ultrawide(40MB/s) scsi drives
>
> it happens on a heavy IO load (tarring/detarring 1gig to disk)
>
> It's a damn nice scsi cable (twisted) that came with the asus MB.
> I just shortened the functional length, and had the last drive terminate
> it instead of a physical terminator. I'm retrying the same tar, I'll
> follow this message up if it still fails.
>
> Doug
When you say shortened the functional length you dont mean you've left some
cable flapping arround after the last terminator ???? This is bad 8=( .
Diagram of what not to do... 8-):
\/
flapping bit of cable
---------------------------------- <cable
| | | |
T d d T
T =termintator (or terminating device) , d = device
This causes an unterminated bit of cable to be present on the line (acts like
a stub if your into RF).
Hope Im not teaching how to suck eggs, just dont see how you 'shorten the
functional length' without sisors !
Mike Lincoln
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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