Linux-Development-Sys Digest #344, Volume #6 Fri, 29 Jan 99 01:14:10 EST
Contents:
Re: Where do I find LILO source? ("Quiney, Philip (EXCHANGE:HAL02:HM10)")
Re: Linux Unix98 (?) Certification (was Re: Microsoft is Exactly Like a Fermenting
Jug of Grape Juice...) (Andrew Josey)
Re: Linux Phase 2: A Consumer Operating System (Richard Taylor)
Re: Linux Phase 2: A Consumer Operating System (Christopher Browne)
Re: KERNEL PANIC! on 2.2.0 final (Martin Recktenwald)
Re: APM and Linux 2.2 (Roland Pabel)
Re: Why I'm dumping Linux, going back to Windblows (jedi)
Re: disheartened gnome developer (Marcin Krol)
Re: disheartened gnome developer (Marcin Krol)
Re: disheartened gnome developer (Marcin Krol)
Re: APM and Linux 2.2 (Chris Rankin)
Re: disheartened gnome developer (Marco Anglesio)
Re: Why I'm dumping Linux, going back to Windblows (Walter van der Schee)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Quiney, Philip (EXCHANGE:HAL02:HM10)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Where do I find LILO source?
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:11:49 +0000
Vish Viswanathan wrote:
>
> Could some one please tell me where to locate the Lilo loader's source
> code?.
>
> Thanks
> Vish
>
> email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi,
You didn't specify the distribution but in RedHat doing this will give
you the package name of any executable on the system:
rpm -qf `which lilo`
(Note the quotes are the back single quote ` rather than ' - important
difference ;-)
On my system this gives
lilo-0.20-1
This is the binary but we now have its name so....
On the second CD (the one with the source on it) it will be something
like..
...../SRPMS/lilo-0.20-1.src.i386.rpm
If you don't have the CD then you can get the package from Rufus on
http://rufus.w3.org/linux/RPM
If you don't have an RPM'd distribution (such as suse or Redhat) then
this won't work. There is I believe a program called 'alien' which can
convert to/from RPM to formats used by other distributions such as
Debian though...
Hope this helps...
Regards
Phil Q
--
Phil Quiney Digital PowerLine,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Nortel Networks,
Telephone: +44 (1279) 402363 London Rd, Harlow,
Fax: +44 (1279) 402885 Essex CM17 9NA,
United Kingdom.
"This message may contain information proprietary to Northern
Telecom so any unauthorised disclosure, copying or distribution
of its contents is strictly prohibited."
------------------------------
From: Andrew Josey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Unix98 (?) Certification (was Re: Microsoft is Exactly Like a
Fermenting Jug of Grape Juice...)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:23:50 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Christopher Browne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: I got email last week from the CSRG chair indicating that efforts are
: ongoing for revisions to POSIX, and that they would welcome having some
: participation from Linux folk.
: See: <http://www.opengroup.org/austin/> for more details on CSRG.
: Note that "CSRG Compliance" likely involves some people visiting Austin,
: Texas a few times, which will cost considerably more than $290...
The group is looking to produce the first major revision to POSIX
since 1990, and participation is open to all interested parties.
The next meeting will be in Menlo Park in early March. For those
who cannot make meetings , participation can occur using email and the
web. We expect to make the first draft available for review during the early
summer and will be taking comments electronically at that time.
--
Andrew Josey, #include <disclaimer.h>
For UnixWare freeware binaries, sources , and FAQs - http://www.freebird.org
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Taylor)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Linux Phase 2: A Consumer Operating System
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:49:24 GMT
On Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:32:25 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher
Browne) wrote:
>On Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:24:55 +0000, Ian Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>David Magda wrote:
>>>
>>> He's giving us options for the future. Whether we follow them is up to us
>>> and not written in stone. We are just beginning to see the commercialization
>>> (sp?) of GNU/Linux and we have to think about it. Even now, RPM is the most
>>> popular package manager but dselect is supposed to be better. Is this the old
>>> VHS vs. Beta cliche again? I'm currently using RH5.0 on my main system
>>
>>In that case please explain how rpm could put deb out of business [g].
>
>And this misses the rather important point that RPM and dselect are not
>of comparable utility.
>
>dselect doesn't do what RPM does; it represents a "package *list*
>manager," and requires a "helper" called dpkg which actually manages
>the packages.
>
>RPM doesn't do what dselect does; it corresponds reasonably closely to
>dpkg. And while there have been some efforts to build 'package list
>managers' for use with RPM, none are as usable as of yet as dselect.
I'd just like to say: once you've used dselect to install a system,
you'll never want to do it any other way. I tried Debian once, and was
hooked for life by the way it's so easy to install packages from the
CD. Dselect is a wonderfull little piece of software, and it is my
hope that in the future, .deb instead of .rpm will be the de-facto
standard, because Debian is clearly the distribution that sticks most
closely to the original Linux ethos.
>Just be thankful Microsoft isn't a manufacturer of pharmaceuticals.
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Linux Phase 2: A Consumer Operating System
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:32:25 GMT
On Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:24:55 +0000, Ian Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>David Magda wrote:
>>
>> He's giving us options for the future. Whether we follow them is up to us
>> and not written in stone. We are just beginning to see the commercialization
>> (sp?) of GNU/Linux and we have to think about it. Even now, RPM is the most
>> popular package manager but dselect is supposed to be better. Is this the old
>> VHS vs. Beta cliche again? I'm currently using RH5.0 on my main system
>
>In that case please explain how rpm could put deb out of business [g].
And this misses the rather important point that RPM and dselect are not
of comparable utility.
dselect doesn't do what RPM does; it represents a "package *list*
manager," and requires a "helper" called dpkg which actually manages
the packages.
RPM doesn't do what dselect does; it corresponds reasonably closely to
dpkg. And while there have been some efforts to build 'package list
managers' for use with RPM, none are as usable as of yet as dselect.
--
Just be thankful Microsoft isn't a manufacturer of pharmaceuticals.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
------------------------------
From: Martin Recktenwald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: KERNEL PANIC! on 2.2.0 final
Date: 28 Jan 1999 10:44:59 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ricardo Manuel Pacheco Salgado) writes:
> I'm getting kernel panics every time I want use callback on ISDN subsystem
>
isdn4linux in 2.2 seems broken. It's a very old version (older than
what can be found in the 2.0 tree) with some bug fixes.
Get a current version from ftp.suse.com (have a look at the isdn4linux
FAQ how to install it) or stay with 2.0.
Martin.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roland Pabel)
Subject: Re: APM and Linux 2.2
Date: 28 Jan 1999 12:30:10 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Daniele Bernardini <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>Hi,
>
>I'm not able to power off my computer on shutdown
>since I'm using kernel 2.2
>
>this is my boot message
>apm: BIOS version 1.2 Flags 0x03 (Driver version 1.9)
>Real Time Clock Driver v1.09
>
>and this my /proc/apm:
>cat /proc/apm
>1.9 1.2 0x03 0x01 0xff 0x80 -1% -1 ?
>
>With 2.0.36 it worked fine...
>
>Any hint is welcome,
>
>Daniele
Same for me, but I found a way to enable it : In the SuSE halt script in
/etc/rc.d I change the command="halt" to command="halt -p" which powers off
the computer(See the halt man page). I don't know if this is the way it should
be, but it works.
Roland
--
I imagine you've heard of me, though ? Q ?! It's short for Q ! -Q
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jedi)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Why I'm dumping Linux, going back to Windblows
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:50:43 -0800
On 26 Jan 1999 23:24:26 -0600, Leslie Mikesell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>jedi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>The average *disk* sold these days is larger than 2GB, after all, and
>>>ext2fs supports partition sizes of on the order of 2TB, so limiting file
>>>size to 2GB seems a mite unreasonable.
>>
>> It's a mild annoyance on the high end of things but isn't
>> quite to a critical point yet. It's certainly a lame excuse
>> to not deploy a non-trivial database on Linux.
>
>A few minutes of video...
It didn't seem to slow down D2 too much.
--
Herding Humans ~ Herding Cats
Neither will do a thing unless they really want to, or |||
is coerced to the point where it will scratch your eyes out / | \
as soon as your grip slips.
In search of sane PPP docs? Try http://penguin.lvcm.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marcin Krol)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: disheartened gnome developer
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:46:50 GMT
On Sun, 24 Jan 1999 00:06:08 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David M. Cook)
wrote:
>On Sat, 23 Jan 1999 14:40:22 GMT, steve mcadams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>
>>Not using desire/competition as the motivating force in an economic
>>system is what put the USSR in its current condition.
>
>The Russian Federation is in much worse shape after years of free market
>reforms.
This is nonsense they want you to believe. Actually, in reality they
do no reforms at all. They just produce smoke to get more free (read
first world's taxpayer's) money. Trust me. Here we have watched
from close distance. Problem is, too many people believe propaganda
like you.
MK
===================================================
"Reality is something that does not disappear after
you cease believing in it" - VALIS, Philip K. Dick
===================================================
Delete _removethis_ from address to email me
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marcin Krol)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: disheartened gnome developer
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:53:51 GMT
On 21 Jan 1999 07:38:42 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Kulisz)
wrote:
>>Should I interpret that as indicating that you consider free markets to
>>be a bad thing?
>Why don't you /not/ "interpret" it and merely understand what I have clearly
>said? I abhor the separation of possession from ownership inherent in land-
>lording, slavery, and stockholding.
>As for free markets; nobody (not the capitalists, politicians, or economists)
>seriously believes they work.
Really? So Milton Friedman or Frederick von Hayek who got Noble
prizes in economy are not economists?
>This is why every single functioning market on
>the PLANET is monopolistic. Nobody in power has believed in Capitalism since
>the Great Depression; they've reserved it as propaganda for dumb assholes.
Great Depression was job of government you love so much.
MK
===================================================
"Reality is something that does not disappear after
you cease believing in it" - VALIS, Philip K. Dick
===================================================
Delete _removethis_ from address to email me
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marcin Krol)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: disheartened gnome developer
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:53:32 GMT
On Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:03:47 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>It is the price mechanism itself which disguises the details people need in
>order to make an informed decision. Instead, it ignores the many factors such
>as the worker's conditions, environmental destruction, etc, and instead urges
>the consumer to choose on the only information they are presented with - a
>pricetag. Hence under any kind of "free market" system, particuarly
>capitalism, we know the price of everything, yet the value of nothing.
Try researching history of theories of value of work. They all
failed miserably. For simple reason - one size does not fit all,
the thing has only subjective *value*. It can have only objective
price, but no objective value.
>With a socialist system, the natural evolutionary path is towards communism,
>which fixes this particular problem.
Absolutely not. The natural evolution of socialism is toward
degeneration. I have had it tested on my skin while you
probably have not, so you can trust me in this regard.
<snip>
>>This may be true ideally, but I certainly never heard any evidence
>>that it works in practice. Ask any recent emmigrant from the Union of
>>Soviet Socialist Republics how efficiently their economic system was
>>working when they left.
>About the only way in which the USSR was socialist is in name.
No, it was not. Besides, there
MK
===================================================
"Reality is something that does not disappear after
you cease believing in it" - VALIS, Philip K. Dick
===================================================
Delete _removethis_ from address to email me
------------------------------
From: Chris Rankin <net.bellsouth@{no.spam}rankinc>
Subject: Re: APM and Linux 2.2
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:59:43 GMT
Daniele Bernardini wrote:
> I'm not able to power off my computer on shutdown since I'm using kernel 2.2
I noticed this too last night, so I dug around in the source code. It's
not a bug - "halt" and "poweroff" are distict shutdown states in 2.2.
There should be a "poweroff" comand in /sbin (really a pseudonym for
"halt -p") that will do what you want.
Chris.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco Anglesio)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: disheartened gnome developer
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:14:06 GMT
On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:45:09 GMT, Marcin Krol
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On 23 Jan 1999 07:46:45 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Kulisz)
>>Even the corporations, billionaires, and politicians all understand that
>>capitalism is destructive; they ceased to believe in it after the Great
>>Depression.
>
>Actually, Great Depression was caused by government, or Federal
>Reserve ineptly replacing clearing system worked out by banks,
>which successfully defended against runs on banks on the beginning
>of 20th century for example.
Runs on banks alone might have been a problem for, oh, six months. Maybe a
couple of years before things worked themselves out. And a mere clearing
system for bank drafts causing the great depression - surely you jest.
IIRC, the most convincing rationale that I have heard for the Great
Depression was overproduction and the stock market crash followed by a
dearth of capital. After losing their shirts, no one was willing to let
capital go far from the nest lest they lose their shirts again. The money
supply for ordinary businesses dried up, and as people lost their jobs, it
became a self-fulfilling prophesy: because loans and investments were not
being made for fear of business failures, businesses failed, causing
existing loans and investments to go bad.
At its worst, this dearth of capital (coupled with a disastrous political
situation) lead to usurious interest rates and hyperinflation. At its
best, it led to labour unrest and strife in a futile effort to head off
the negative pressure on wages.
Present day nations manage their economies in such a way as to head off
depressions (recessions) of this kind. They may increase the money supply
(by allowing banks to lend more money - playing with the deposit-loan
ratio, among other things) or drop interest rates on various kinds of
government debt in a flattening economy in order to stimulate growth. No
doubt federal governments in the 1930's would have tried such strategies
had there been precedent. Massive public spending was the tool that they
did have (consider the TVA and the huge building efforts of the mid to
late 30's in the US; consider the cost of rearmament in Germany), and it
did finally end the depression.
(And now, back to linux, please?)
marco
------------------------------
From: Walter van der Schee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Why I'm dumping Linux, going back to Windblows
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:52:13 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> we are talking about new users comming to use Linux for first time, and
> suggesting simple things, like adding examples in man pages, to help them
> in the process.
>
> Once one is not frightned away from Unix after first few days, then they
> have the rest of their lifes to read about the theory of shells and commands.
>
> But first things first. It is not this or that, but one can have both.
>
> I think it is becuase Unix has been foriegn to end users having direct access
> to it, the Unix programmer have developed this strange way of looking at
> the world. They really need to wake up, and get out from front of their
> computers and go talk to real end users once in a while.
>
> Steve
I, for one, absolutely agree 100%, because of the long heritage of UNIX
behind us, thousands upon thousands of man-pages have allready been
written.
But for whom?
The experienced UNIX user/sysadmin/programmer as a basis to do their
admin/programming faster and/or easier.
No one in their right minds would have ever expected, back in 1969, that
UNIX would even be popular. Or that computers be used by everyone, even
housewives to keep recipies (is that correct english?).
Now we are on the virge of a new age where a UNIX inspired and UNIX
command-interface using Operating System is availible to the masses at
little or no cost.
Back in the old days it was the same, but computers we too expensive.
What needs to be done now is, rewrite the thousands of UNIX man-pages
for first-time users, and perhaps, during install-time, give the users
the choice of installing the "inexperienced" man-pages, or the "normal"
or "experienced" man-pages.
One other thing. A good direction is the HOWTO's they give the user
examples.
However if a user has trouble, he/she is being told by the experienced
users to read the man-page. So he/she does. Then what?
Anyway, to make a long story short, we (the UNIX/Linux community) need
to rewrite the man-pages and put them in a seperate package.
Any comments?
Walter van der Schee
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.development.system) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Development-System Digest
******************************
