Linux-Hardware Digest #695, Volume #10 Wed, 7 Jul 99 17:13:22 EDT
Contents:
Re: Need to Build Low-Cost Linux Box (Carsten Cimander)
Re: PCI Modem Elsa Microlink 56K-PCI (Mircea)
Re: Celeron, what's the catch? (Jay Patrick Howard)
Re: Celeron, what's the catch? (Michael)
Re: Transfer HD to new PC ("Jürgen Pfann")
Re: Celeron, what's the catch? (David T. Wang)
IBM Network Station (Bill Mair)
Re: dual processor setup? (Bryan)
Re: OFFTOPIC: Cost/Performance SCSI/IDE (Josh McKee)
Re: dual processor setup? (Alex Lam)
Re: Need to Build Low-Cost Linux Box (Bryan)
SoundBlaster Live! ("Asim Shankar")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Carsten Cimander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Need to Build Low-Cost Linux Box
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 18:40:10 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi Benjamin,
perhaps try at DELL or GATEWAY or COMPAQ
http://www.dell.com/forhome/index.htm
from $899
http://www.gateway.com/prod/hm_dtp_Category.shtml
from $699
http://www.compaq.com/athome/desktops/
from $599
Have fun!
regards,
Carsten
> Neville <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:7lgr2h$r3v$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm a college student and I am looking to build/buy a Linux box for
> > <=$500. I don't need a monitor-- just a decent AMD or Intel processor, a
> > few GBs of disk, 128 or so RAM, video card, ethernet card, etc. I want
> > to be able to run KDE, use GNU programming tools, run Apache, and run
> > VMWare so I can occassionally access Windoze files.
--- snipp
> > Where are the best places to find QUALITY parts at REASONABLE
> > prices? Or, where is the best place to buy a complete system?
--- snipp
------------------------------
From: Mircea <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: PCI Modem Elsa Microlink 56K-PCI
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 00:42:04 -0400
Most likely a winmodem. The shared memory strongly hints it, and the irq
also. See the list at:
http://www.o2.net/~gromitkc/winmodem.html
MST
Eric Santonacci wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Does anybody get experience with this PCI Modem? Technical support of Elsa told
> me it is not a passive modem. I tried to configure it with setserial
>
> Here is my /proc/pci
>
> Bus 0, device 18, function 0:
> Serial controller: Unknown vendor Unknown device (rev 1).
> Vendor id=127a. Device id=1004.
> Medium devsel. Fast back-to-back capable. IRQ 9. Master
> Capable. Latency=32.
> Non-prefetchable 32 bit memory at
> 0xe4000000.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
------------------------------
From: Jay Patrick Howard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel
Subject: Re: Celeron, what's the catch?
Date: 7 Jul 1999 14:40:14 -0500
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips Dean Kent <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Oops! my default browser is IE. My office system is a P166MMX, so I
: tried it here. Netscape 4.01 goes to lunch and takes the rest of the day
: off. IE comes back in less than a second (this is with the 13 nested
: tables).
As much as I hate to say it, Kudos to MS then. At least they were able to
implement this one thing correctly.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel
Subject: Re: Celeron, what's the catch?
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 19:48:23 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (chrisv) wrote:
>On Wed, 07 Jul 1999 03:26:40 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael) wrote:
>
>> The save dialogue boxes come up instantly, versus a second
>>or the celeron as an example.
>
>Get real. There's something wrong with your machine. Celerons are
>very snappy in Windows, much more so than AMD machines I have seen.
>
>Do you really think that the cache differences take you from
>"instantly" to "a second or so"? Nonsense.
>
No the only nonsense is your non belief. There is nothing wrong with
either system. The celeron does not multitask as well as the AMD k6
III. The difference isn't huge, but its enough to bother me. Celeron
is a great single tasking processor. A celeron with no cache is slow,
a celeron with 128 cache is sufficient for gamers, but its not for
business use with numerous multiple windows open. To deny this is to
deny the effect of main memory speed on the processor. If it were as
you say, cache wouldn't matter....why does cache matter? How many
programs can loop in the cache on the celeron? How many can loop in
the PIII, how many in the AMD k6 III with a L2 cache?
Now, the celeron is a fine low cost solution for many. Its not dog
slow, but its not as fast as a K6 III. Sorry if you believe
otherwise.
Mike
------------------------------
From: "Jürgen Pfann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Transfer HD to new PC
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 18:44:24 +0200
Hello,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have a P100 with 64M RAM running Linux RH5.2 2.0.36 on a separate HD.
> I it possible to remove that HD and place it in a new PC, a P3 450 Mhz
> with 128M?
> Or do I have to reinstall or reconfigure Linux?
>
> Thanks
> Z
If the HD is your only HD in both boxes, and attached to the same IDE
channel for IDE disks (I mean, was /dev/hda before and is /dev/hda
afterwards), my guess is, linux would boot without a single error
message :-). Of course, you'd have to reconfigure X in most cases
for the new video card / X server. Or, possibly, the kernel doesn't
recognize all 128M of memory (to me, that seems to depend on the
distribution for 2.0.x), which you can work around with the resp.
"append=..." LILO / kernel option.
Naturally, I would rebuild a custom, best-hardware-suited kernel.
But to repeat that : The old box could have been a '386 SX with 4M,
too - basically no problem for linux.
Compare that to the "automatic" "New Hardware Found" floppy / CD
diskjockey orgy with M$ Win9x (or NT's "blue screen") !
CU
Juergen
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (David T. Wang)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel
Subject: Re: Celeron, what's the catch?
Date: 7 Jul 1999 19:55:48 GMT
Jay Patrick Howard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: : Must be something wrong with that site. It merely shows a simple
: : graphic and is instantaneous on my system. No lag whatsoever, but
: : somehow I don't think I am seeing what you want me to see.
: Netscape should choke trying to load these. If you loaded 13.html
: successfully, you're probably using IE. That, or your copy of Netscape
: has development sentience and re-coded itself using a O(n) algorithm.
Took me about 15 minutes on a slow RS6K, but Netscape works loading the
red/black/red rectangular pattern.
--
main(){while(1){switch(rand()%7){case 0:printf("Illogical.\n");break;case 1:
printf("Balderdash.\n");break;case 2:printf("Non sequitur.\n");break;case 3:
printf("Incorrect.\n");break;case 4: printf("See what I mean\?\n");break;
case 5:printf("Irrelevant.\n");break;case 6:printf("Poppycock\n");break;}}}
------------------------------
From: Bill Mair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: IBM Network Station
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 19:54:23 GMT
I´m looking for a way to get Linux up on
my IBM Network Station 1000.
I don´t mean boot from Linux I mean Linux on
the NC.
It´s a PPC based system so I was wondering if there
would be a way to get LinuxPPC to run on it.
I´ve a couple of intel based Linux systems and was
wondering if I can compile a PPC on one of them ?
Can an intel gcc generate PPC code ? I also have an
RS/6000 running AIX if that helps any.
Other things like xserver can come later but I need
to know if it is even feasible to try.
Any help on this would be appreciated.
Bill.
--
Linux on IBM TP 770X
On the move with an OS thats moving.
http://www.bm-soft.com/~bm/tp700x.html
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: Bryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: dual processor setup?
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 16:46:10 GMT
Alex Lam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Bryan wrote:
: >
: > Alex Lam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: >
: > : The price differences between the Celeron and the P-II is not that
: > : much anymore.
: >
: > cel300a are in the $60 range. the p2-450 (if you could still get
: > them) are in the $200+ range. assuming you o/c the 300a to 450 (and
: > you will!) then there's QUITE a big price delta the way I see it.
: >
: I'm comparing 400 Mhz P-II vs. 400Mhz Celeron. No, I don't do games at
: all, or over clock.
I don't do games either and I normally do NOT o/c. but its actually a
law with this chip - before the vendors will sell you a 300a chip you
must sign on paper that you'll dutifully overclock. [of COURSE I'm
joking - but this chip is SO easily overclockable that I know of NO
ONE who buys a 300a and doesn't o/c it].
I actually don't consider the 300a at 450 o/c'd. its still within
very safe and reliable operating parameters. raising the voltage from
2.0 to 2.2 usually does the trick and its still only 10% - well within
the chip's actual operating parms.
I run 3 dual celeron systems at home - two are web server or 7x24
linux devel systems. they've been up for 40 days now - would be more
except I had to do some drive upgrades which mandated a power down ;-)
NO heat issues, NO flakiness, NO reboots, NO hangs. one system even
has hardware raid (mylex) on it for reliability. at this point, I
swear by the 300a chips. when they're gone and no longer purchasable,
I will mourn that day ;-) ;-)
: The price difference between a P-II 400Mhz and a Celeron 400Mhz is
: about $60.00,
: not counting the SMP adaptor.
the abit bp6 doesn't need smp adapters or risers. and the mobo is
$130 or so. you CANNOT beat $130 + 2*$60 ($250) for a dual 450 cpu
system, price/perf wise.
: > : And the P-II still beats the Celeron on database and so on by a wide
: > : margin.
: >
: > no, NOT a wide margin. very very slim, if any.
: Try a big , fat database. Or compiling codes. It's more like at least
: 15-20% faster with the P-II with 512k cache. Most of the Celeron
: o-clocking bench marks are done with Winblows based tests and games
: especially. I don't care about games performance at all, or 3D. :)
I don't either. I build kernels, I do lots of C development and
web/cgi work. I also do quite a bit of sql work (mysql and postgres).
I found the dual celerons quite snappy for my purposes.
: I tried o-clocking before, but ran into problems with codes compiling
: and other stability problems. Yes, the box has plenty of cooling
: heatsinks and fans and ventilation holes/slots front and back, and the
: room is air-conditioned at all time at 75 degree F.
did you raise the voltage? that's almost a must, unless you're lucky.
look - I took the biggest chance with my system and it STILL works
like a workhorse. I did the 'drill and solder' mod on slot1 300a
chips - pretty much as risky as it gets. I raised the voltage to 2.2
and did the drill smp hack, ran green wires, etc, etc. did this on 8
300a slot chips - all with 100% success. now if I'm getting this kind
of reliability with modified chips, I would bet the sock370 abit bp6
with NO soldering or wiring (and a more secure socket than slot1, btw)
would only be better than what I have now - which is quite quite good.
I'm an engineer by trade and I usually ignore o/c folks. but not for
the 300a - the reliability and track record is impossible to ignore.
I can read paper specs all day but what matters is what works - and
the 300a at 450 -works-.
--
Bryan, http://www.Grateful.Net - Linux/Web-based Network Management
->->-> to email me, you must hunt the WUMPUS and kill it.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Josh McKee)
Subject: Re: OFFTOPIC: Cost/Performance SCSI/IDE
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 15:50:30 GMT
On 7 Jul 1999 00:17:43 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John McKown) wrote:
>OK, I'm stupid. Can anyone out there explain to me why a SCSI hard drive
>costs about twice as much as a similiarly sized IDE hard drive? Someone
>once told me it was due to the SCSI interface being more expensive to
>implement. OK. But isn't the actual hard drive (platters, heads, etc)
>the same?
You're not stupid. IDE/EIDE and SCSI hard drives are identicle except
for the interface. I use to work at a hard drive manufacturer years
ago. At that time, the only thing that differed between the two was
the interface electronics. The servo, read channel, processor, heads,
disks, case, etc. were identicle. I use to swap IDE boards on SCSI
HDA's and vice-versa. No problems.
Maybe that has changed since then, but I doubt it.
Josh
------------------------------
From: Alex Lam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: dual processor setup?
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 12:54:32 -0700
Bryan wrote:
>
> Alex Lam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : Bryan wrote:
> : >
> : > Alex Lam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : >
> : > : The price differences between the Celeron and the P-II is not that
> : > : much anymore.
> : >
> : > cel300a are in the $60 range. the p2-450 (if you could still get
> : > them) are in the $200+ range. assuming you o/c the 300a to 450 (and
> : > you will!) then there's QUITE a big price delta the way I see it.
> : >
> : I'm comparing 400 Mhz P-II vs. 400Mhz Celeron. No, I don't do games at
> : all, or over clock.
>
> I don't do games either and I normally do NOT o/c. but its actually a
> law with this chip - before the vendors will sell you a 300a chip you
> must sign on paper that you'll dutifully overclock. [of COURSE I'm
> joking - but this chip is SO easily overclockable that I know of NO
> ONE who buys a 300a and doesn't o/c it].
>
Yes, I know a couple of people who o/c'ed their Celeron 300a and are
very happy with them.
> I actually don't consider the 300a at 450 o/c'd. its still within
> very safe and reliable operating parameters. raising the voltage from
> 2.0 to 2.2 usually does the trick and its still only 10% - well within
> the chip's actual operating parms.
>
> I run 3 dual celeron systems at home - two are web server or 7x24
> linux devel systems. they've been up for 40 days now - would be more
> except I had to do some drive upgrades which mandated a power down ;-)
> NO heat issues, NO flakiness, NO reboots, NO hangs. one system even
> has hardware raid (mylex) on it for reliability. at this point, I
> swear by the 300a chips. when they're gone and no longer purchasable,
> I will mourn that day ;-) ;-)
>
Yes, I have to admit that the Celerons are great buys. The best bang
for the buck in the history of the personal computer.
> : The price difference between a P-II 400Mhz and a Celeron 400Mhz is
> : about $60.00,
> : not counting the SMP adaptor.
>
> the abit bp6 doesn't need smp adapters or risers. and the mobo is
> $130 or so. you CANNOT beat $130 + 2*$60 ($250) for a dual 450 cpu
> system, price/perf wise.
>
I use ASUS and Shuttle Hot mobo for Intel's, and Epox mobo for AMD
cpu.
Haven't check out the new ABit BP6. Is that a 370ppga board? I use
only Slot-1 boards for Intel's.
But $130 is a really cheap price for a dual cpu board.
> : > : And the P-II still beats the Celeron on database and so on by a wide
> : > : margin.
> : >
> : > no, NOT a wide margin. very very slim, if any.
>
> : Try a big , fat database. Or compiling codes. It's more like at least
> : 15-20% faster with the P-II with 512k cache. Most of the Celeron
> : o-clocking bench marks are done with Winblows based tests and games
> : especially. I don't care about games performance at all, or 3D. :)
>
> I don't either. I build kernels, I do lots of C development and
> web/cgi work. I also do quite a bit of sql work (mysql and postgres).
> I found the dual celerons quite snappy for my purposes.
>
Yes, with web server and MySQL and so on, the dual Celerons are quite
happy if you have around 256MB RAM or so. In fact, I am quite happy
with single Celeron set up with my web server as well.
> : I tried o-clocking before, but ran into problems with codes compiling
> : and other stability problems. Yes, the box has plenty of cooling
> : heatsinks and fans and ventilation holes/slots front and back, and the
> : room is air-conditioned at all time at 75 degree F.
>
> did you raise the voltage? that's almost a must, unless you're lucky.
>
Yes, I did. I followed all the recommandation from sharkey's extreme,
bxboards.com, etc., etc., bad ass heatsinks, double fans etc., etc.,
;-)
> look - I took the biggest chance with my system and it STILL works
> like a workhorse. I did the 'drill and solder' mod on slot1 300a
> chips - pretty much as risky as it gets. I raised the voltage to 2.2
> and did the drill smp hack, ran green wires, etc, etc. did this on 8
> 300a slot chips - all with 100% success. now if I'm getting this kind
> of reliability with modified chips, I would bet the sock370 abit bp6
> with NO soldering or wiring (and a more secure socket than slot1, btw)
> would only be better than what I have now - which is quite quite good.
>
Yeah, but I don't want to spend money on a 370ppga board. The days of
the Celerons are numbered.
> I'm an engineer by trade and I usually ignore o/c folks. but not for
> the 300a - the reliability and track record is impossible to ignore.
> I can read paper specs all day but what matters is what works - and
> the 300a at 450 -works-.
>
No, I don't care about paper specs either. That's why I found the NT
vs. Linux tests very amusing. So what if NT is 400% faster when you
get 150 million hits.
But how about reliability? Right?
I'm sure the 300a o/c'ed to 450 works. There're plenty of evidents
out there for me to see. But from my own limited finding. If you run a
big, fat ass database server, with lots of disks access, the extra
cache with the P-II does make a noticable different - I'm already
running identical U2WSCSI on both.
I'm NOT putting down the dual Celerons here. It's a great combo for
the money if it serves your purpose well. That's the bottom line and
that's what counts.
Now, I hope somebody will make a nice dual AMD K-7 board, I'd love to
see how that one will run. After hearing all the good reviews about
the K-7.
Alex Lam.
> --
> Bryan, http://www.Grateful.Net - Linux/Web-based Network Management
> ->->-> to email me, you must hunt the WUMPUS and kill it.
--
*remove all the Xs (upper case X) if reply by e mail.
** no more M$ Windoze.
------------------------------
From: Bryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Need to Build Low-Cost Linux Box
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 17:10:47 GMT
worst price/performance you can get is a pre-built system. they'll
most likely throw in a suboptimal display, winmodems maybe even
winprinters. and a 2button mouse ;-)
ALWAYS choose name-brand motherboards and build a system around that.
use asus, tyan, fic, abit and others like that.
with the stuff you don't need being deleted, you WILL come in cheaper
and have a better upgrade path than the systems listed below.
Carsten Cimander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Hi Benjamin,
: perhaps try at DELL or GATEWAY or COMPAQ
: http://www.dell.com/forhome/index.htm
: from $899
: http://www.gateway.com/prod/hm_dtp_Category.shtml
: from $699
: http://www.compaq.com/athome/desktops/
: from $599
: Have fun!
: regards,
: Carsten
:
: > Neville <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
: > news:7lgr2h$r3v$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
: > > Hi,
: > >
: > > I'm a college student and I am looking to build/buy a Linux box for
: > > <=$500. I don't need a monitor-- just a decent AMD or Intel processor, a
: > > few GBs of disk, 128 or so RAM, video card, ethernet card, etc. I want
: > > to be able to run KDE, use GNU programming tools, run Apache, and run
: > > VMWare so I can occassionally access Windoze files.
: --- snipp
: > > Where are the best places to find QUALITY parts at REASONABLE
: > > prices? Or, where is the best place to buy a complete system?
: --- snipp
--
Bryan, http://www.Grateful.Net - Linux/Web-based Network Management
->->-> to email me, you must hunt the WUMPUS and kill it.
------------------------------
From: "Asim Shankar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: SoundBlaster Live!
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 01:28:36 +0530
hi!
I have a Creative Labs SoundBlaster Live! Value soundcard.
The Creative site says that they are currently no drivers for Linux created
by them.
Can I still get sound through it in Linux by any means?
Thanx,
-- Asim
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Hardware Digest
******************************
