Linux-Hardware Digest #816, Volume #10 Thu, 22 Jul 99 00:13:33 EDT
Contents:
Re: Cheap /Linux/ Box (Re: Why Build Box?) (John Doe)
Re: Why Build Box? (Mike Frisch)
Re: Why Build Box? (Mike Frisch)
Re: Linux and Tyan Tomcat motherboard??? (Dale Pontius)
Re: RAID controler? (Mike Simos)
Re: [Q] 440BX/GX/LX and others (Mike Simos)
Re: third hd and slow boot (John McKown)
Diamond Viper V770D ("Eric Frus")
Win<anything> hidden agenda [was: PCI Modem Driver for Linux (about to (Tim Moore)
Re: Why Build Box? (John Doe)
Re: Why Build Box?
Re: Help: Voodoo3 installion Red Hat 6.0 ("John D. Verne")
Re: Why Build Box? (John Doe)
Re: Why Build Box? (John Doe)
Re: About to build Linux RAID box. Need advice. (Mike Frisch)
Re: Why Build Box? (Mike Frisch)
tape backup device under Linux (Matthew Hixson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Doe)
Subject: Re: Cheap /Linux/ Box (Re: Why Build Box?)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 21 Jul 1999 21:20:03 -0500
>: ...Most parts in a preassembled computer are not the ones
>: you need: non-ECC memory, overpriced ``top of the line'' CPU, a
Is 83MHz pentium overdrive on IBM ps/value point 433/dx
'top of the line' to you?
>: videocard not (yet) supported or poorly supported by Xfree86,
Generic S3 1 MB build-in video card poorly supported?
> a
>: nonmodem (HSP/HCF/PCI/USB/... modem which will not run under
>: anything but Windows). Most probably you are not getting the
I have not bought any winmodems despite my best attempt to buy one.
Only losers buy winmodems. In general do like I do. Don't buy
latest and fastest. Buy used.
>: soundcard which will work best for you, especially if you do need
I have no sound card. I don't even own a separte cd player so I use my
2x cd-rom drive to play music ocassionally via my cassette player.
If any one can give good reasons why sound cards are necessary please
post it here. I am deaf.
>
>: one. If a monitor is included, then it most probably has .28mm dot
>: pitch, 15'' diagonal, and/or poor bandwidth (this leads to 60Hz
>: flickering at higher resolutions).
If you are rich you can afford a great monitor. My current monitor is
14" (12.9" visible I think) ctx monitor. It is about to die but it is
dirt cheap.
> At last, you are also about to invest a
>: few hundred into Microsoft's software ("Microsoft tax"). Oh yeah,
Well I have never paid more than $100 for a complete used box. I don't
think people who sell these boxes charge me for that tax.
I know ton's of linux hardware vendors who will sell you linux only
system. You must be sleeping for the last 6 months.
>: there is also a (two-button) mouse...
See above. You seems to be saying I want to buy microsoft computer but
don't charge me for windows operating system. Duh!
>For the detailed advice on how to assemble a good computer for around
>$400, see
>
>http://www.math.sunysb.edu/~comech/tools/CheapBox.html
>
Will take a look at it and let you know what I think.
>Looking for a Linux-compatible V.90 modem?
I use 33.6 and it is just fine. My line does not support v.90 anyway.
Even if it does $35 is too expensive for a modem.
> See
>http://www.math.sunysb.edu/~comech/tools/CheapBox.html#modems
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mike Frisch)
Subject: Re: Why Build Box?
Date: 22 Jul 1999 01:01:36 GMT
On 21 Jul 1999 19:08:39 -0500, John Doe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Oh one more thing! 85 cents discount if no screw driver is required.
>
>I can also throw in a home improvement video for $4.99. This video
>retails for $9.99. Basically my prices will be cheaper than
>any one else. Ok?
Is this your way of trying to back out of a discussion in which you were
clearly overruled?
Mike.
--
======================================================================
Mike Frisch Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Northstar Technologies WWW: http://saturn.tlug.org/~mfrisch
Newmarket, Ontario, CANADA
======================================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mike Frisch)
Subject: Re: Why Build Box?
Date: 22 Jul 1999 01:01:06 GMT
On 21 Jul 1999 19:03:04 -0500, John Doe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Basically I will let everyone choose *any* components they want
>and I will send you all of the component plus a screw driver.
>
>How does that sound? Any suggestions are welcome.
Sounds like you're trying to be a smartass, but hundreds of companies on
the Internet already do what you think is a joke...
Mike.
--
======================================================================
Mike Frisch Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Northstar Technologies WWW: http://saturn.tlug.org/~mfrisch
Newmarket, Ontario, CANADA
======================================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dale Pontius)
Subject: Re: Linux and Tyan Tomcat motherboard???
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 02:35:33 -03-59
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
mshrake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> My Tyan Tomcat motherboard is a single processor model, but
> is also ava in a dual processor model. I can get through
> the install process with no problems, but when I reboot it
> hangs. It says it found 2 processors, but that is not
> possible, and there are alot of messages about IO APIC. Is
> there anything I can do, or do I need a new motherboard???
>
I'm running RedHat 6 on a Tomcat I right now. Which distro
are you running? AFAIK the Tomcat I doesn't have the APIC
that it would take to run a second CPU, not to mention the
missing socket.
I've never seen the messages you mention. Beyond that I
don't know enough to speculate.
Dale Pontius
DEPontius AT usa DOT net
------------------------------
From: Mike Simos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: linux.redhat.install,linux.redhat.misc
Subject: Re: RAID controler?
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 03:02:11 GMT
Greg Leblanc wrote:
> RAID 1 shouldn't have any performance benefits over a RAID 5 on a three
> disk config, since it's just mirroring data, unless I'm wrong. However,
> the main thing that I need is data redundancy, and hot swap capability.
> The LC3 only has three internal hot swap drive bays, and purchasing an
> external chassis is very expensive. I was really more interested in
> finding out the best controlers to use with Linux, and any expierence
> that people have had with them, and saving debates about which RAID
> configuration is best for another thread. :-) Thanks,
A good place to start is
www.redhat.com/corp/support/hardware/intel/60/rh6.0-hcl-i.ld-6.html#ss6.6
If you plan on using RedHat to make life easy I would suggest purchasing
one of the RAID controllers on the HCL. I've had good experiences with
AMI MEGARAID controllers. VA Linux uses Mylex RAID controllers, they
seem work well. I haven't used any Mylex controllers yet, so I can't
speak from experience. I would probably stay away from Compaq or IBM's
RAID controller, but thats my own personal bias. :) DPT (www.dpt.com)
also has a RAID controller for Linux, never tried it but from the looks
of their web site it should work okay. As for performance I think the
Mylex controllers are probably faster, or thats what the DAC960-HOWTO
leads you to believe. I like the AMI MEGARAID controllers because they
are pretty easy to configure and there is a ncurses utility that allows
you to configure your RAID array under Linux.
Mike
------------------------------
From: Mike Simos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Q] 440BX/GX/LX and others
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 03:07:28 GMT
"Robert J. Sprawls" wrote:
>
> I read on www.linux.org that SuperMicro supports Linux well. I
> went to their site and was reading about the MBs and saw that they
> have varying chipsets. Is there a real difference between the BX, GX,
> LX and any other chipsets? I'm doing some research for a future
> machine purchase.
Check out http://developer.intel.com/design/chipsets/linecard.htm
This will answers all your questions. For your future purchase you may
want to hold off until the new 820 chipset comes that support 133MHZ
FSB. Since the BX or GX chipsets won't support many more future
processors.
Mike
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John McKown)
Subject: Re: third hd and slow boot
Date: 22 Jul 1999 02:15:09 GMT
On Wed, 21 Jul 1999 08:59:17 -0500, john w. connolly
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I installed a third hard disk some time ago and moved /usr and /home to
>it. Everything works ok except that it now takes about 10 minutes for me
>to boot linux. The output of /sbin/fdisk -l is:
>
> Device Boot Begin Start End Blocks Id System
>/dev/hdb1 1 1 51 102784+ 6 DOS 16-bit >=32M
>/dev/hdb2 52 52 604 1114848 83 Linux native
>/dev/hdb3 605 605 613 18144 82 Linux swap
>/dev/hdb4 614 614 621 16128 82 Linux swap
>/dev/hdd1 1 1 2000 1007968+ 83 Linux native
>/dev/hdd2 1024 2001 16383 7249032 83 Linux native
>
That looks VERY weird to me. I have three HDs also. But I end up with
/dev/hda? /dev/hdb? and /dev/hdc?. It appears that your third disk is
the slave on the secondary. Do you have a cdrom as master on the
secondary channel? If so, I'd strongly suggest that you make the HD
the master and the cdrom the secondary. That's how I have it. I have
heard that the cdrom can really slow up the hd access. Especially if
it is the master. This is a bit of a pain, but not all that much. Just
edit the /etc/fstab and change /dev/cdrom to symlink to /dev/hdd instead
of /dev/hdc.
I hope this was of some help.
John
------------------------------
From: "Eric Frus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Diamond Viper V770D
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:48:27 -0500
Hi, I'm having problems getting my Diamond Viper V770D to work with Linux
Mandrake. Anyone successful using this card?
Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:17:27 -0700
From: Tim Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Win<anything> hidden agenda [was: PCI Modem Driver for Linux (about to
> >Sounds like a romance/fantasy novel to me. Why do you want to support
> >products and companies that are trying to eliminate choice for all of
> >us? Support of Winmodems, Winprinters, WinPC's or anything else where
> >hardware is dependent on a single operating system only reduces all of
> >our choices in the future.
> it might sound like fantasy to you, but i assure you we're very serious.
> 90% of laptops have winmodems. when (not if) we get winmodems to work
> under linux, more people will be able to run linux on their laptops without
> having to buy more hardware or boot to windoze, thus more linux mindshare.
/usr/src/linux/pcmcia-cs-3.0.9/SUPPORTED.CARDS file states
http://www.snafu.de/~wehe/Laptop-HOWTO.html
http://www.redhat.com/corp/support/hardware/intel/60/rh6.0-hcl-i.ld-23.html
...
Modem and serial cards:
[ Virtually all modem cards, simple serial port cards, and
digital cellular modems should work. The only prominent
exceptions are the Compaq 192, the New Media WinSurfer, the
Megahertz XJ/CC2560, 3Com 3CXM356/3CCM356 and
3CXM656/3CCM656,
and other so-called "WinModems" that require special
Windows
drivers. ISDN modems that emulate a standard UART are also
supported. ]
Not according to RedHat's hardware compatibility lists or the
Laptop-HOWTO. The primary Winmodem issues are with PCI cards in desktop
systems. There are whole generations of chipsets and PC board designs
in the pipeline now (e.g.- intel camino) that are designed to support
the 'Winmodem' idea of offloading functionality from addon hardware to a
high MHz processor and the OS. The idea of hardware emulation has been
around forever, but more as a way to model hardware rather than replace
it. Do you think there would be any perpherials for sale in the real
world if it actually worked on a broad scale? Why develop ASICs, PCBs
and other components if you could just write software?
In this case the ultimate end point is to have a PC based on CPU,
memory, hardware interfaces (e.g.- keyboard, monitor, etc). ZERO
expansion slots. This means you don't buy your favorite video card,
modem, disk controller, network card, sound card, etc, you get what
Microsoft supports. If memory gets cheap and/or dense enough, you won't
even have a disk drive. If networking gets fast/cheap enough, your PC
will be a net connection, keyboard, mouse, monitor and MSN account.
Your choices will be intel and microsoft. If microsoft buys intel, your
choices will be what?
> linux programmers will get even more respect from hardware makers because
> our code will be better/more robust, whilst certain arrogant captive
Manufacturers make products to sell, companies exist to make a profit.
There is zero corporate revenue from "respect".
> >No thanks. Find somewhere else to make a contribution.
>
> *shrug* it's our time to waste.
No, it's my future choices you're threatening. Sorry to perhaps sound
cold, but this is a real and close proximity possibility. Preserve your
own future. Get educated about what is actually happening in the
computer business and act on that.
--
timothymoore "Everything is permitted. Nothing is
forbidden."
bigfoot WS
Burroughs.
com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Doe)
Subject: Re: Why Build Box?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 21 Jul 1999 23:10:22 -0500
On Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:48:57 -0500, Mike Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>John Doe wrote:
>
>> I am against building your own computer. But there are many
>> advocating this 'build your own' thing.
>
>> 1) Manufactures enjoy the economy of scale because they buy
>> tons of componets at a time. If you build your own you
>> buy one piece of each and you are paying retail price for
>> each piece.
>
>And decent retailers compete with each other for your hard-earned
>dollars, and have very good prices.
Sure they rob your wallet with shipping fees. I know that because I
have selling things on internet myself and their profit margin is
in the shipping fee. $14 to ship a 3.5" hard drive.
>I don't think Gateway, Dell,
>or Compaq would sell me a Asus P2B, 400Mhz Celeron, 128MG RAM,
>8GB disk, 44x CD, Viper 550 AGP, case, floppy, keyboard, mouse,
>etc. for $700.
>
>Or would they?
If others could built better machines than these companies for less money
those companies will be out of business by now.
>Remember, we also save about $100 by _not_ paying for some
>crappy OS that we don't want!
Ahhhhhhhhh! How many time I have to respond to this idiotic belief.
There are many companies that will sell linux boxes. People! Hello!
Wake up!
>> 2) Every hour you spent doing research and reading manuals
>> means money unless you are unemployed.
>
>It also means you _understand_ what your system is all about.
And then what! This is the argument for DOS when DOS users want to look
down at mac users.
Tell me the mystery of the universe. It is more interesting.
>If all we want to do is make PowerPoint presentations, then by all
>means let's give our money to IBM, HP, Dell, Compaq and MS.
Who ask you to go to these companies? People seems to be saying I want to
buy a microsoft computer but I don't want to pay money to microsoft. Beats
me.
>> 3) Factory workers are clearly better at building computers
>> than than you who build one computer ocassionally
>
>"Doh!" as said by an experience new-cle-ar technician.
>See #4 -- how much experience do I need to turn a screwdriver?
>
>("clearly better" -- what a grand, sweeping generality! Nice effect!)
>
>> 4) Building computer is not intellectually challenging; it
>> involves turning screws and reading manauls.
>
>Sounds like a perfect relaxing hobby after a crappy day at work!
There are people who works because they have to and people who works
because they want to.
>Michael Hall
>http://www.enteract.com/~mghall
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Why Build Box?
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:12:37 -0700
On 21 Jul 1999 19:03:04 -0500, John Doe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I am starting a company called 'build your own computer'
>
>Basically I will let everyone choose *any* components they want
>and I will send you all of the component plus a screw driver.
>
>How does that sound? Any suggestions are welcome.
Hundreds have already beat you to it.
--
It helps the car, in terms of end user complexity and engineering,
that a car is not expected to suddenly become wood chipper at some |||
arbitrary point as it's rolling down the road. / | \
Seeking sane PPP Docs? Try http://penguin.lvcm.com
------------------------------
From: "John D. Verne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Help: Voodoo3 installion Red Hat 6.0
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:23:32 -0400
Scott wrote:
[...]
> I installed the rpm's and then use Xconfigurator before starting the
> X server to setup the card/monitor and modes. It always defaults
> to 320x240 when it starts, which means using XF86Setup is next
> to impossible given the low screen resolution (buttons are not scaled
> down and are inaccessible). Ctrl Alt + doesn't cycle through any
> modes so I assume something is still misconfigured or installed
> incorrectly.
>
> I just want to get the 2d to work for now and I've wasted about 3 hours
> on this already. Any help would be appreciated.
Whoa. 3 hours. Bummer.
Seriously, this will take you at least 3 days to get right. Trust me.
Hints:
- reread and re-reread the Howtos. Some stuff is just plain outdated,
but every second paragraph contains a jewel.
- Read <http://www.netroedge.com/~phil/3dfx-howto.html>. Read it again.
- hang out at <news:news.3dfx.com> try 3dfx.glide.linux. There's a fair
bit of noise, but a few people are actively answer questions and
filtering the garbage.
I _personally_ had to *not* use any other tool except for XF86Setup.
Remove _all_ xservers except for VGA16 and the special svga server. At
one point I removed X completely (I mean completely) and reinstalled
fresh with the bare minimum. This is easy with RPM.
Once I started XF86Setup, I was able to prove vga16 worked, which let me
choose the svga server that understands V3 cards. As long as you do not
probe for values, and your monitor modelines get made OK, you should be
home free.
Well, except for the various lib errors while installing, and other fun
stuff. There are all answers to these common problems at the newsgroup,
above.
The short answer: it can be done, but not in 3 hours. It took me a very
intensive weekend of people-ignoring to get it working. The 3D stuff
took me another week, and Quake never worked for me. YMMV.
Good luck.
John
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Doe)
Subject: Re: Why Build Box?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 21 Jul 1999 22:43:42 -0500
On 22 Jul 1999 01:01:36 GMT, Mike Frisch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On 21 Jul 1999 19:08:39 -0500, John Doe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Oh one more thing! 85 cents discount if no screw driver is required.
>>
>>I can also throw in a home improvement video for $4.99. This video
>>retails for $9.99. Basically my prices will be cheaper than
>>any one else. Ok?
>
>Is this your way of trying to back out of a discussion in which you were
>clearly overruled?
>
>Mike.
What do you suggest I do? Just because I was overruled it does not mean
others are right! I just think that people who built their own would like
that video.
I know I will not build a new box for myself. I have done the math way
back and it just does not compute. I either buy a used box or if I can
afford it buy a new box.
Why can't you have any constructive comments?
I also mean to start that company on the internet.
I currently have a company on the net trading linux cds and software.
I plan to start trading hardware as soon as I hear from the distributor.
My prices have been very competitive and I don't rip people off on
shipping fee. Those stupid internet companies you are refering to rip
people off on shipping fees. $14 to ship a hard drive! Fools buy from
them. When I sell it will be like $5.50 to ship a drive priority mail. I
ship cds for $1 each. In general if I cannot beat other people prices I
do not sell it. For example I don't sell red hat box because I cannot
offer discount.
PLEASE TAKE NOTE THIS IS NOT A COMMERCIAL. IF IT IS HOW ARE YOU GOING TO
BUY IT. DO YOU SEE A PAYMENT ADDRESS?
Ok to be completely ethical I admit that this is a commerical. Send money
to me at my house address. Look me up in the book. Money order only
please.
>
>--
>======================================================================
> Mike Frisch Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Northstar Technologies WWW: http://saturn.tlug.org/~mfrisch
> Newmarket, Ontario, CANADA
>======================================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Doe)
Subject: Re: Why Build Box?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 21 Jul 1999 22:52:13 -0500
On 22 Jul 1999 02:25:13 GMT, Robert V. Grizzard
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
>[snip]
>
>>I can also throw in a home improvement video for $4.99. This video
>>retails for $9.99. Basically my prices will be cheaper than
>>any one else. Ok?
>
>Forty bucks for the case I want, 78 for the MB and a buck and a half for the
>processor. Lessee, that's -- ummm, 118 + 150 -- $268.00.
I have ibm ps/value point for sale at $100. Running red hat 6.0.
>
>Can you beat that for a full tower 250W+, an Aopen AX59Pro and a K6-III 400?
>
There is no noticable performance difference between my $100 system and
system based on dual pII boxes unless you are doing fluid dynamics
calculations.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mike Frisch)
Subject: Re: About to build Linux RAID box. Need advice.
Date: 22 Jul 1999 03:20:03 GMT
On 22 Jul 1999 02:28:18 GMT, sincero arcadio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hmm ... all these drives are 3.5". Three of them go at 7,200 rpms
>and the other 5 go at 6,400. Would these put out a lot of heat?
Definitely. Some of the older 7200rpm drives (like the old Barracudas)
and even most of the new ones really crank out the heat. You will
definitely need some sort of cooling for these drives, especially if
you're putting 8 of them in the same case.
> I think the solution to my heating problem is to simply not put
>the cover back on and perhaps even have a house fan pointed at the thing.
Sure, it'd work, but it'll be noisy and look terrible.
>case. Actually what I was thinking is converting a smallish metal utility
>cabinet into a make shift case. Now *that* would definatly look
>nightmarish >;-). Any problems with that idea?
No, just ensure you leave room for cooling fans (regular PC case fans are
fine if you have a few of them).
>the floor for the network cabling anyway, so thats no big deal. Hey ..
>it's even cooler in the basement too!
That's probably the best idea of all and in that case, the appearance
won't be so critical.
Mike.
--
======================================================================
Mike Frisch Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Northstar Technologies WWW: http://saturn.tlug.org/~mfrisch
Newmarket, Ontario, CANADA
======================================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mike Frisch)
Subject: Re: Why Build Box?
Date: 22 Jul 1999 03:51:46 GMT
On 21 Jul 1999 22:43:42 -0500, John Doe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Why can't you have any constructive comments?
I added several in a previous followup. Your arguments for purchasing a
pre-built simply did not hold water and myself and several others were
quick to point that out. You then tried to make a joke of the whole
thing.
Mike.
--
======================================================================
Mike Frisch Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Northstar Technologies WWW: http://saturn.tlug.org/~mfrisch
Newmarket, Ontario, CANADA
======================================================================
------------------------------
From: Matthew Hixson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: tape backup device under Linux
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:17:16 -0700
Can anyone recommend a tape backup device for use under Linux? This is
to go into a machine with an ASUS P2B-DS motherboard (supports SCSI).
The machine is currently running kernel 2.2.6, but I can upgrade it if
necessary.
Any adivce is welcomed.
-M@
------------------------------
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